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post #151 of 164
10/9/10 at 5:33am
2012 is a long way away. GTFO of Afghanistan, and he can win re-election. Let the generals call the shots, back to the GOP clusterfuck. There's just no way to outflank the "ignorant third" (to borrow a phrase of Tocqueville) with supply lines getting continually exploded in a war that President Obama has explicitly made his own.

ETA: I would just like to point out, that compared to the Roberts court and the Congressional Clown Caucus, the executive branch is the least of our governmental problems.
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post #152 of 164
8/1/11 at 7:48pm

Well I think it's time to bump this thread.

 

The just announced budget "deal" has pissed off both Liberal Democrats and Tea Partiers and does nothing to address the debt, revenue and spending problems faced by the US.

 

The "Arab Spring" seems to be degenerating into anarchy to be followed by a new set of Strongmen, most likely Extremist Muslims as well.

 

OH and we're still in Afghanistan.

 

Obama has to be thankful for one thing: the Republican field for the 2012 Presidential race is incredibly weak.

 

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post #153 of 164
8/7/11 at 6:58pm

I posted this in the economy thread, and Rain Dog suggested I post it here. So here you go.

 

Quote:
This is the best article to date on Americans' disillusionment with Obama. I will concede that part of this stems from our own projections and expectations of what he represented, rather than the actual platform he ran on. But what this article tells so succinctly, is that Obama's biggest failure is telling stories. For being such a great orator, he has been silent - and often contradictory - in explaining what his goals are and how he plans to accomplish them. I still have no idea why Obama cares so much about bipartisanship. I have no idea why he negotiated away many protections for the poorest Americans in exchange for tax breaks to corporations, wall street and the wealthy. Quite frankly, I don't know what Obama believes in, and that makes it very difficult to trust that he is doing the right thing for the people.

 

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post #154 of 164
8/7/11 at 7:39pm

It's an interesting article, but I think the author is focusing on one single tactic (Obama isn't telling us a story! We want a story!) as the all encompassing explanation for the failure (or perceived failure) of the Obama Administration. Thing is, he DOES tell stories. He'll record a podcast at a factory in Detroit, or relate the struggles of people who write to him. I think his problem is he's not consistent in his methods of communicating. On the one hand he'll discuss complex issues as such, the next minute he's in Campaign mode and decrying Wall Street Fat cats, but then changing tack again.

 

What's frustrating is, all the elements of the message are there, he simply needs to draw them all together. People forget that Reagan had The Speech, a speech about the evils of Big Government that he literally gave for 20 years before being elected. So people knew (or thought they knew) exactly where Reagan stood on most issues. Obama simply hasn't been around long enough to build that kind of assurance, and he's never really laid out his philosophy in one speech. 

 

Here's Reagan's Speech: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yt1fYSAChxs

 

Way back in the 2008 Election thread I pondered whether Obama would be a Reaganesque game changer or Jimmy Carter Mark II. At this point he sure looks like the later, but a LOT can happen in 12 months.

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post #155 of 164
8/7/11 at 7:47pm

The problem is tho even when he does tell a story or outline a position he ends up acting in ways that completely undermines that position subsequently. 

 

As the piece says:

 

 

 

Quote:
The president tells us he prefers a “balanced” approach to deficit reduction, one that weds “revenue enhancements” (a weak way of describing popular taxes on the rich and big corporations that are evading them) with “entitlement cuts” (an equally poor choice of words that implies that people who’ve worked their whole lives are looking for handouts). But the law he just signed includes only the cuts. This pattern of presenting inconsistent positions with no apparent recognition of their incoherence is another hallmark of this president’s storytelling. He announces in a speech on energy and climate change that we need to expand offshore oil drilling and coal production — two methods of obtaining fuels that contribute to the extreme weather Americans are now seeing. He supports a health care law that will use Medicaid to insure about 15 million more Americans and then endorses a budget plan that, through cuts to state budgets, will most likely decimate Medicaid and other essential programs for children, senior citizens and people who are vulnerable by virtue of disabilities or an economy that is getting weaker by the day. He gives a major speech on immigration reform after deporting a million immigrants in two years, breaking up families at a pace George W. Bush could never rival in all his years as president.

 

The guys been bringing a knife to a gun fight for 3 years now and walking away from damn near every fight he's taken on looking bruised if not outright beaten. 

 

I'm too old, hope doesn't spring eternal anymore. As much as it saddens me to admit it, frankly, Obama just isn't the person America needs right now, hell with the way your system is skewed at this point in history, maybe the right person would simply not be able to be elected.

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post #156 of 164
8/7/11 at 8:35pm

Well let's remember who the alternatives were in the 2008 election: McCain/Palin. We dodged a bullet in 08, make no mistake.

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post #157 of 164
8/7/11 at 8:37pm

That that can somehow be seen as a comfort right now speaks volumes to how limited and broken the American capitalist democratic political experiment has become.

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post #158 of 164
8/7/11 at 8:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post

What's frustrating is, all the elements of the message are there, he simply needs to draw them all together.



What elements would those be? As Rain Dog, the linked article and even Jon Stewart point out, Obama says one thing and does another. We have no idea of where he stands on any issue because he wants to be the fair and balanced negotiator between the feuding parties*. He only speaks out on an issue long after the message on any given issue has been spun by self-interested parties. He avoids conflict at all cost and thus doesn't take any hard stance on any issue. But beyond that, when he does speak out on a particular issue, he does a poor job of explaining what the problem is, how the problem affects the average American, and what his policies would do to help those people. This is the part of the article that rang most true to me:

 

Quote:
In fact, the average American had no idea what Democrats were trying to accomplish by deficit spending because no one bothered to explain it to them with the repetition and evocative imagery that our brains require to make an idea, particularly a paradoxical one, “stick.” Nor did anyone explain what health care reform was supposed to accomplish (other than the unbelievable and even more uninspiring claim that it would “bend the cost curve”), or why “credit card reform” had led to an increase in the interest rates they were already struggling to pay. Nor did anyone explain why saving the banks was such a priority, when saving the homes the banks were foreclosing didn’t seem to be. All Americans knew, and all they know today, is that they’re still unemployed, they’re still worried about how they’re going to pay their bills at the end of the month and their kids still can’t get a job.

 

 

* I really don't understand Obama's insistence on bipartisanship. As evidenced by the article and Jon Stewart video I linked to above, Obama continually gives the benefit of the doubt to Republicans thinking they'll do the right thing. And each time they steamroll him, Obama acts surprised. Some infamous guy once said, "Fool me once. Shame on me. Fool me *awkward pause* I ain't gonna get fooled again."

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post #159 of 164
8/7/11 at 8:56pm

The communication issue is a core problem at a federal political level here in Australia as well, to the point that any and all political discussion has degenerated to basically pre-packaged soundbites and partisan sniping. Discussion of issues and facts? Forget it.

 

The first world has gotten ridiculously comfortable, entitled and complacent - and now it's time to pay the piper.

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post #160 of 164
8/7/11 at 9:07pm

The Republicans in America are very adept at messaging. Jon Stewart has montage after montage of Republican representatives and media pundits alike who are saying the exact same thing almost verbatim. They get handed talking points each week and, man, do they stick by them. The Dems are too divided on core issues to ever be that good at hammering home a message. The only thing they ever agreed unanimously on was "anybody but Bush" and that didn't turn out so well because there wasn't a platform of issues to rally behind. Reps' "anti-taxes" rhetoric is simplistic and easy to remember. The Dems need a rallying point, and it should be how the country has turned into a plutocracy at the hands of greedy corporations. But the system is so corrupt that the Dems who should be championing the people on this, and having their pockets stuffed by those very corporations. It's sick.

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post #161 of 164
8/8/11 at 7:05am

Someone brought up the comparison at work, and it sucks just how true it is in relation to all this.

Obama is Ned Stark.

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post #162 of 164
8/8/11 at 7:32am
Nah. Ned Stark would do what he thought was the right thing regardless of the politics. Obama's concern for politics causes him to do the wrong thing for the right reason.
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post #163 of 164
8/8/11 at 12:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diva View Post





What elements would those be? As Rain Dog, the linked article and even Jon Stewart point out, Obama says one thing and does another. We have no idea of where he stands on any issue because he wants to be the fair and balanced negotiator between the feuding parties*. He only speaks out on an issue long after the message on any given issue has been spun by self-interested parties. He avoids conflict at all cost and thus doesn't take any hard stance on any issue. But beyond that, when he does speak out on a particular issue, he does a poor job of explaining what the problem is, how the problem affects the average American, and what his policies would do to help those people. This is the part of the article that rang most true to me:

 

 

 

* I really don't understand Obama's insistence on bipartisanship. As evidenced by the article and Jon Stewart video I linked to above, Obama continually gives the benefit of the doubt to Republicans thinking they'll do the right thing. And each time they steamroll him, Obama acts surprised. Some infamous guy once said, "Fool me once. Shame on me. Fool me *awkward pause* I ain't gonna get fooled again."



Ronald Reagan is still known as the President who lowered American's Taxes and hated Big government. Ronald Reagan raised American's taxes 11 times during his two terms and greatly expanded Big Government (via a huge military buildup). Obama saying one thing and doing another is not new. He simply can't project a unified image or state his core beliefs.

 

I agree with you re: the bipartisanship thing. It's like he wants to get the nation to see "hey, i tried and I tried, but those damn Republicans won't compromise!". But that's not what people want. They want him to draw a line in the sand.

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post #164 of 164
8/8/11 at 2:17pm

Reagan lowered taxes on the rich and and raised them on the working class.

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