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I still DO like Star Wars - Page 3

post #101 of 1527
10/8/09 at 11:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil View Post

Holy shit cubed. I'm terrified to ask your viewing schedule of Ghostbusters.

W-W-W-What was your viewing schedule of G-G-G-G-Ghostbusters?
I'm actually with Greg on this, back when I was around 10 years old I was probably watching a Star Wars movie or three about once a week, same as my brothers and more than a few friends. More those taped-off-TV VHS tapes right out. By the time Episode I came out in 7th grade that was starting to taper off, and Episode II pretty much killed it.
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post #102 of 1527
10/8/09 at 12:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormin View Post
By the time Episode I came out in 7th grade
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post #103 of 1527
10/8/09 at 12:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fat elvis View Post
working for girls gone wild?
lawls!
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post #104 of 1527
10/8/09 at 7:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Elvis View Post
Working for Girls Gone Wild?
Love it. It's keeping me not only afloat while I pursue filmmaking, but flourishing financially. When I work for them, the plane ticket is free, I get a weekly per diem, drinks and hotels are paid for as well. Lots of naked girls. Not a bad gig. I'm sure you would've turned it down.
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post #105 of 1527
10/9/09 at 6:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post
Love it. It's keeping me not only afloat while I pursue filmmaking, but flourishing financially. When I work for them, the plane ticket is free, I get a weekly per diem, drinks and hotels are paid for as well. Lots of naked girls. Not a bad gig. I'm sure you would've turned it down.
A friend of mine stated out editing porn movies before moving on to work in the BBC archives watching an cataloging there years worth of un-labeled film stock (he found one of the original Kong prints while doing it), he now works in the Natural History unit in Bristol which is where he wanted to be.

The point I'm trying to make is there is nothing wrong with taking a job that pays well while you cut your teeth.
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post #106 of 1527
10/9/09 at 8:48am
I'd love to go see this Star Wars in Concert thing, but the cheapest seats are $75.
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post #107 of 1527
10/9/09 at 10:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerhead View Post
and then the book that changed my life: The Star Wars Album.

This was the Rosetta Stone I needed. A slim, quickly-published volume that laid out the production's origins, influences and arcana in simple 3rd-grade accessible terms. One page featured a Flash Gordon comic strip, another compared C-3PO and R2-D2 to Laurel and Hardy, a third identified Han Solo as a variant on the archetypal Western gunslinger, with a still of John Wayne and the immortal caption "Get out of town before the twin suns set." I made mental notes to watch out for these other as-yet unseen artists and their works.

There were also pictures of the actors between takes (Carrie Fisher noting that Peter Cushing was 'a sweetheart' in real life), a shot of Peter Mayhew in the makeup chair, and a look at the miniatures used for special-effects shots. I realized that movies don't just happen; that everything we see in them is the result of a creative decision. I stopped being a passive observer and became a movie lover. Not because of the film, but because of that book.

I still don't know if I like Star Wars. I have a feeling Lucas doesn't either. But I wouldn't be who I am without it.
Do you still have your copy? I've got mine. I got it sort of by accident-- my mom needed a photo sample to give the bakery at the local supermarket so they could take a stab at decorating a Star Wars cake, so she saw that book, bought it and lent it to them. The still from Freaks in that book stayed with me through the twenty-odd years I had to wait to see that movie.
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post #108 of 1527
10/9/09 at 10:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Savage View Post
The point I'm trying to make is there is nothing wrong with taking a job that pays well while you cut your teeth.
Even a job that involves teen rape!
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post #109 of 1527
10/9/09 at 1:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rex Hudler View Post
Do you still have your copy? I've got mine. I got it sort of by accident-- my mom needed a photo sample to give the bakery at the local supermarket so they could take a stab at decorating a Star Wars cake, so she saw that book, bought it and lent it to them. The still from Freaks in that book stayed with me through the twenty-odd years I had to wait to see that movie.
The one I read as a kid was in my school's library. Found a copy for myself on eBay some twenty-five years later. Usually my memory plays tricks on me but that book was exactly as I remembered.

And yes, thinking back it blows my mind that in the years before home video I was conversant on movies like Metropolis and Freaks despite not being able to see them. That still from Scaramouche was a bit of a spoiler for Empire, come to think of it.
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post #110 of 1527
10/16/09 at 2:20pm
Even after all this time, Bioware's trailer for The Old Republic gave me some thrills.
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post #111 of 1527
11/9/09 at 4:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
I'd love to go see this Star Wars in Concert thing, but the cheapest seats are $75.
I saw it last night, and while I agree the ticket prices were inflated ($34, 54, or $74 plus $10 "convenience" fee), it was a lot of fun! Anthony Daniels' excitement was infectious and the performers were definitely enjoying themselves. For a once in a lifetime event, I can say it's worth it, but I was disappointed by the limited items from the archive that were on display.
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post #112 of 1527
11/23/09 at 8:25am
For the last 3 Sundays I have been introducing the wife to the OT(she had never seen them). Overall she liked them, Empire being her favorate, and Jedi the one she disliked the most.

What was interesting was seeing if she could spot the changes Lucas had added in. Overall she couldn't (which says more about the quality of the old effects than the new ones to me.)

However, at the end of Jedi she asked who the skinny kid was standing next to Yoda and Ben. After explaining it was the guy who plays Anikin in the prequals (which we havent watched) she asked what was wrong with the old guy we had just seen die.

And that is another reason I love my wife.
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post #113 of 1527
11/23/09 at 10:12am
I still agree with that change, but I'm curious to hear how she deals with it after the prequels.
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post #114 of 1527
11/23/09 at 10:19am
Me to,

although that does mean I have to sit through them again.
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post #115 of 1527
11/23/09 at 11:51am
The Clone Wars Season 2, is so much cooler than the first. Friday, TCW ripped off...Aliens, in an ep that I am sure gave some younger Star Wars fans unexpected nightmares. This season is more violent even then S1. Anakin's teen sidekick is much less annoying, and there are bigger stories. The December 4th ep, rips of that TNG 2 parter where the parasites are trying to take over the Federation. Clearly, with more ultraviolence and run n' gun action, The Clone Wars S2 is much more entertaining. Clearly, the force is with...The Clone Wars!
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post #116 of 1527
11/24/09 at 2:04am
My wife hasn't seen the OT either (or any Star Wars stuff). When I point out that most of what she was seeing in Empire (like 95%) is what was shown in its original run, she's amazed. The old school effects have aged wonderfully with the OT.

One of the things I noticed with the first Star Wars is how the whole thing is really held together with charm and not alot else. The diallogue is horrible, Hamil hasn't grown into his role, and even with the special edition additions, the movie betrays its low budget roots from time to time (as in some of the Death Star attack runs). That being said, the movie overcomes those shortcomings by Lucas' enthusiasm and Harrison Ford's not insignificant charms. Everyone just looks like they're having a blast making this movie and it's infectious.

Anyway, on to Jedi tomorrow night. This movie is the least of the OT but still better than the PT combined. Looking forward to it.
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post #117 of 1527
11/24/09 at 2:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dynamotv View Post
but still better than the PT combined.
No, it's not.
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post #118 of 1527
11/24/09 at 10:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dynamotv View Post
Anyway, on to Jedi tomorrow night. This movie is the least of the OT but still better than the PT combined.
Bull. Fucking. Shit.

Did most of my semi-annual marathon yesterday. Jedi's still such interminable ass.

Conversely, Phantom Menace actually grew in my estimation quite a bit yesterday. There's still some cringe-worthy lows, but taken as a whole, there's an innocence and a purity to that movie, an attempt to tell a very big story in simpler terms. Its much more of an honest attempt at a kid's Star Wars movie than Jedi.

Basically, Lucas gets what these films are more than most of its fans do.

I just wish that wasnt the mindset in which he made that last Indiana Jones movie.
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post #119 of 1527
11/24/09 at 11:06am
I still want to do the viewing order I've always talked about -- Star Wars, Empire, the PT, then Jedi. Maybe this weekend.

I slag on Jedi -- the Luke/Leia scene is worse than anything Christiansen and Portman did, Fisher and Ford are phoning it in, goddamn Ewoks -- but from the moment the Rebel fleet drops out of hyperspace, that film is on rails, and the Luke/Vader/Emperor stuff is as good as anything in the OT.
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post #120 of 1527
11/24/09 at 11:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Clark View Post
Bull. Fucking. Shit.

Did most of my semi-annual marathon yesterday. Jedi's still such interminable ass.

Conversely, Phantom Menace actually grew in my estimation quite a bit yesterday. There's still some cringe-worthy lows, but taken as a whole, there's an innocence and a purity to that movie, an attempt to tell a very big story in simpler terms. Its much more of an honest attempt at a kid's Star Wars movie than Jedi.

Basically, Lucas gets what these films are more than most of its fans do.

I just wish that wasnt the mindset in which he made that last Indiana Jones movie.
I couldn't disagree more. The Phantom ManAss was an abomination, pure and simple. I honestly never thought I'd see this kind of retro-fit nonsense, but I suppose it has been 10 years. It was terrible, is terrible and will always be terrible. Jedi has buckets going for it. Yes, the Ewoks are awful - but I loved them as a 9 year-old watching the film. I can't think of a kid I knew at the time, nephews/nieces/friend's kids, who loved TPM like we loved the orginals. He completely failed to capture (or understand, imo) what made the OT so wonderful, and proved once and for all that ANH, from a directorial point of view, was a total fluke.
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post #121 of 1527
11/24/09 at 11:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
I still want to do the viewing order I've always talked about -- Star Wars, Empire, the PT, then Jedi. Maybe this weekend.

I slag on Jedi -- the Luke/Leia scene is worse than anything Christiansen and Portman did, Fisher and Ford are phoning it in, goddamn Ewoks -- but from the moment the Rebel fleet drops out of hyperspace, that film is on rails, and the Luke/Vader/Emperor stuff is as good as anything in the OT.
I started with the OT as I didn't want to put her off. I might not even bother with Phantom and Clones and skip straight to Sith.
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post #122 of 1527
11/24/09 at 11:57am
Honestly, if you've only seen the OT, all you really need is Revenge of the Sith.
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post #123 of 1527
11/24/09 at 12:00pm
MoonBaseNick, Attack Of The Clones is...All Kinds Of Awesome! Especially the arena duel with all those Jedi, giant monsters, and EEEEEEEEEEvil Aliens in a giant free for all. This is the arena that the action was so intense, Jango Fett,...Lost his head, trying to face down...Shaft err...Mace Windu, in a fight that Fett was so hopelessly overmatched. Obi Wan Kenobi's investigations and fight in the rain vs Jango alone, make this film a must see.
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post #124 of 1527
11/24/09 at 12:05pm
The arena scene would have been a great set-piece for a pulpier, more action-based film. Hell, it would have been a great opening scene, starting in the middle of an Anakin/Obi-Wan adventure.

The biggest failing of the prequels -- aside from pretty much relegating the Clone Wars to an off-screen event -- was not developing the relationship between Anakin and Obi-Wan. Qui-Gon's relationship with Obi-Wan was better developed in the first film than Anakin's was in two films. The only reason the final duel in Sith had any resonance was because we as viewers brought in 30 years of anticipation, not because the prequels set it up well.
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post #125 of 1527
11/24/09 at 12:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
The arena scene would have been a great set-piece for a pulpier, more action-based film. Hell, it would have been a great opening scene, starting in the middle of an Anakin/Obi-Wan adventure.
I've never thought of that, but how awesome would that have been if one of the films started with that.
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post #126 of 1527
11/24/09 at 12:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
The biggest failing of the prequels -- aside from pretty much relegating the Clone Wars to an off-screen event -- was not developing the relationship between Anakin and Obi-Wan. Qui-Gon's relationship with Obi-Wan was better developed in the first film than Anakin's was in two films. The only reason the final duel in Sith had any resonance was because we as viewers brought in 30 years of anticipation, not because the prequels set it up well.
Excellent point, Richard.
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post #127 of 1527
11/24/09 at 12:17pm
It's just that never once in the PT did I see anything that would lead to Ben Kenobi's "And he was a good friend" line in Star Wars. Nothing close.
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post #128 of 1527
11/24/09 at 12:18pm
Yes, great point Richard. The thing with Anakin is that he was not a likable character at any point in the PT.
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post #129 of 1527
11/24/09 at 12:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
It's just that never once in the PT did I see anything that would lead to Ben Kenobi's "And he was a good friend" line in Star Wars. Nothing close.
Another great point Richard. Even if there was a "friendly" moment is was heavy handed
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post #130 of 1527
11/24/09 at 12:20pm
In truth, the Obi-Wan/Qui-Gon relationship was the only one that held any real resonance in the entire PT. Everything else was entirely too superficial to generate any real believability or weight.
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post #131 of 1527
11/24/09 at 12:21pm
Which is a testament to how good an actor Liam Neeson is.
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post #132 of 1527
11/24/09 at 12:23pm
yes, Neeson was believable as Qui-Gon right from the start.
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post #133 of 1527
11/24/09 at 12:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
Which is a testament to how good an actor Liam Neeson is.
THAT, and Lucas actually wrote them some teacher/student (as well as father/son) character moments to establish their relationship. You believe it when Obi-Wan goes apeshit when Qui-Gon dies.
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post #134 of 1527
11/24/09 at 12:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas Booth View Post
THAT, and Lucas actually wrote them some teacher/student (as well as father/son) character moments to establish their relationship. You believe it when Anakin goes apeshit when Qui-Gon dies.
very true there is actual emotion when Obi and Qui-Gon have their last talk. it would have been interesting if they were able to bring back Ghost Qui-Gon.

and I know you meant Obi-Wan, so you get a free pass ;-)
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post #135 of 1527
11/24/09 at 1:57pm
Yeah, why did they make Anakin so cunty? It's both funny and scary to read the youtube comments under anything star wars-related, they're full of weird guys "relating" to Anakin and how misunderstood and awesome he is.
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post #136 of 1527
11/24/09 at 2:02pm
I stand by Jedi being better than any of the Prequel Trilogy. Does all of it work? Hell no. The Ewoks are still a blight but what does work works amazingly. Nothing in the prequel trilogy touches the highs that Jedi achieves. For what it's worth.....

1. Empire.
2. Star Wars
3. Jedi
4. Sith
5. Attack of the Clones
6. Phantom Menace
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post #137 of 1527
11/24/09 at 2:21pm
Thread Starter 
I didn't grow up watching these movies, so I have no nostalgia to cloud my mind, and no childhood to rape.

I don't like Return of the Jedi till the very end. It felt like bullet points and didn't feel like it had an organic flow. The return of the Death Star just felt like it was there to be a threat, especially since the Rebellion destroyed one in A New Hope, and don't get me started on the time differences on building two Death Stars.

The performances feel off, and Han Solo doesn't seem to have that edge he had in the previous films. Vader is no longer off the leash, and always seems to be hyping the Emperor. Luke initially seems off the map, with Force choking the pig, probably because it looks badass as opposed it seems to not be very Jedi like.

Oh and that dance number in Jabba's palace?

I actually like Episode III more. It has the emotional payoff of Anakin going to the Dark Side, Palpatine taking over after 2 Episodes of scheming, and no annoying characters (Jar Jar doesn't speak), Order 66 montage, and Ewan McGregor and Ian McDiarmid just knocking it out the park.

Hell, even Natalie Portman pulled off some decent spots. Hayden Christensen may of been a little wooden, but he's playing a conflicted Jedi, so I give him slack as he doesn't know how to rationally express these feelings as most of his peers are more in control of their emotions and don't rely on them.
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post #138 of 1527
11/24/09 at 2:27pm
50 Reasons Why Return of the Jedi Sucks
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post #139 of 1527
11/24/09 at 3:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
It's just that never once in the PT did I see anything that would lead to Ben Kenobi's "And he was a good friend" line in Star Wars. Nothing close.
Everything in the franchise eventually must (and usually fails to) reconcile with two key scenes from Star Wars: The Film That Has No Other Name. There's the Death Star Conference, which sets up a lot of questions about Vader's relationship to the Empire that are never properly addressed, and then there's Ben's House (quoted above), which still lays out the backstory more powerfully than anything in the prequels. Again, it helps to cast great actors-- I often wonder how much information Guinness had going in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SAIRUS View Post
Hell, even Natalie Portman pulled off some decent spots.
Of her costume! booyah!
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post #140 of 1527
11/24/09 at 4:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerhead View Post
Again, it helps to cast great actors-- I often wonder how much information Guinness had going in.
That look Ben gives Luke right before he answers Luke's question about how his father died is, in my opinion, probably the best half-a-second acting in the whole damn thing.
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post #141 of 1527
11/24/09 at 4:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerhead View Post
Everything in the franchise eventually must (and usually fails to) reconcile with two key scenes from Star Wars: The Film That Has No Other Name. There's the Death Star Conference, which sets up a lot of questions about Vader's relationship to the Empire that are never properly addressed, and then there's Ben's House (quoted above), which still lays out the backstory more powerfully than anything in the prequels.
Yeah, Vader feels much more like a "free agent" in Star Wars, and the Emperor feels more like some distant figurehead than some evil wizard. In fact, in the Star Wars novelization, the Emperor is described as an increasingly isolated individual controlled by his retainers and hangers-on. Obviously that conception changed with Empire.
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post #142 of 1527
11/24/09 at 4:27pm
I love JEDI, but I do have beefs with it. But my biggest beef? It sorta starts with EMPIRE. In STAR WARS and especially in EMPIRE, Vader's not just evil, he's gleefully evil. "Apology accepted, Captain Needa." "You are in command now, ADMIRAL Piett." So when Vader reveals his parentage to Luke, there's two shocks there - first, that he's Luke's father at all, and second, that Luke has the potential not just to fall into evil, but fucking DIVE into it.

In JEDI Vader's claws are pulled. He doesn't kill one person in JEDI save the Emperor. That was a conscious attempt to make him more sympathetic, and I understand that, because when Vader kills the Emperor, he's protecting his child. But I wonder what would it have been like if Vader remained this unconflicted evil son-of-a-bitch that he was in the first two films, and what it would mean for him to save his son. Don't get me wrong, I love the Luke/Vader stuff in JEDI. I just think there were seeds for a more interesting resolution than that.
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post #143 of 1527
11/24/09 at 4:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
Yeah, Vader feels much more like a "free agent" in Star Wars, and the Emperor feels more like some distant figurehead than some evil wizard.
I'm still surprised that young Vader* didn't spend some time as a bounty hunter. I would have thought that's where he got to know Boba Fett, Bossk, et al. There's an interview somewhere in which Lucas says that the bounty hunters were originally a bigger part of the story but he doesn't say what part.

*I don't subscribe to this "Anakin" nonsense. According to Old Ben, there was a young Jedi named Darth Vader, dammit.
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post #144 of 1527
11/24/09 at 4:51pm
I think it's assumed that Vader got some assistance from bounty hunters in tracking down the last of the Jedi. That's the Vader I wanted to see in the prequels -- already turned, but not in the armor yet, hunting down Jedi as they scattered and hid all over the galaxy. And Obi-Wan being the last one he finds, leading to the duel that puts him in the armor. But hey, Order 66 was cool, I guess.
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post #145 of 1527
11/24/09 at 5:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
I think it's assumed that Vader got some assistance from bounty hunters in tracking down the last of the Jedi. That's the Vader I wanted to see in the prequels -- already turned, but not in the armor yet, hunting down Jedi as they scattered and hid all over the galaxy. And Obi-Wan being the last one he finds, leading to the duel that puts him in the armor.
Yeah, I was hoping for Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid in space.

Quote:
But hey, Order 66 was cool, I guess.
Eh, only because it engendered the inevitable 'Order 69' joke.
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post #146 of 1527
11/24/09 at 5:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Connors View Post
I couldn't disagree more. The Phantom ManAss was an abomination, pure and simple. I honestly never thought I'd see this kind of retro-fit nonsense, but I suppose it has been 10 years. It was terrible, is terrible and will always be terrible. Jedi has buckets going for it. Yes, the Ewoks are awful - but I loved them as a 9 year-old watching the film. I can't think of a kid I knew at the time, nephews/nieces/friend's kids, who loved TPM like we loved the orginals.
I'm trying to think of a 9 year old who likes the exact same shit their parents like who isn't a pathetic excuse for a would be human being, and yup, big surprise, coming up empty.
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post #147 of 1527
11/24/09 at 6:13pm
While I agree with many of the Jedi criticisms (I still like the speeder bike chase, though, when it comes to Ewok stuff, and I'm with Dickson on the third act), I feel the need to defend the Jabba stuff. Yes, not all of it works, but Jabba's such an entertaining character that I don't really mind, and the atmosphere/creature work is terrific.
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post #148 of 1527
11/24/09 at 6:19pm
The Jabba sequence shows Luke has matured as a Jedi -- instead of rushing off to the rescue like he did in Empire, he has a carefully orchestrated plan -- and it's fun seeing Luke and Han reunited, but you've got that damn song (both versions), the cringe-worthy Han/Leia reunion, the Muppet convention that is Jabba's palace, and the grossly mis-handled death of Boba Fett. I'm convinced we got so much Jango in the PT because Lucas felt guilty about how Boba went out.
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post #149 of 1527
11/24/09 at 6:20pm
Both Fetts go out like punks in my opinion.
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post #150 of 1527
11/24/09 at 6:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Clark View Post
I'm trying to think of a 9 year old who likes the exact same shit their parents like who isn't a pathetic excuse for a would be human being, and yup, big surprise, coming up empty.
I'm sorry - you're saying that you DO know some 9 year-olds who are pathetic excuses for human beings (nice!) but you don't know any who like...what their parents like, so....say my kid ends up liking the Ewoks when I show her Jedi at 9, that's going to be proof that she's a pathetic excuse for a human being? Wow. That is absolutely awesome.
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