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I still DO like Star Wars - Page 29

post #1401 of 1634
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post

Ralph McQuarrie....dead.



This news hits hard.  The Illustrated Star Wars Universe was like the bible to me as I was growing up.

post #1402 of 1634
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post

Ralph McQuarrie....dead.


Ah, cock. That's really bad news. I had the "folio" that had A3 images of his Star Wars art as a kid. I loved his early Vader designs.

frown.gif
post #1403 of 1634

McQuarrie has fueled my imagination since I was a kid. He will be missed, but appreciated. 

post #1404 of 1634
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post

Ralph McQuarrie....dead.



Fuck. That's a sobering thing. The man was a legend, and probably had a hand in shaping my imagination to an extent I'll never fully realize.

post #1405 of 1634
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Bain View Post


Ah, cock. That's really bad news. I had the "folio" that had A3 images of his Star Wars art as a kid. I loved his early Vader designs.
:(


I LOVED his early designs of the Storm Troopers.

post #1406 of 1634

 

Seriously, that guy was pretty much the first person to take GL's super dodgy early ideas and shape them into something modern and transcendent of it's pulp roots. Apparently it was that image of the droids that actually got them the green light in the first place - nobody understood all that Journal of the Whills bullshit, but the image of that golden droid sold it as something with an exceptional vision at work (though only GL realized that same visually striking golden robot was the tip of a potential merchandising empire).

 

 

post #1407 of 1634

Am I the only one who finds The Empire Strikes Back the weakest of the trilogy? It's ending is legendary, but its kind of a slog. There's never the energy that's present in the first third of Return of the Jedi, or the whole of the first film. Certainly not bad, but it always confounds me when people boast that its better than the original or that they've watched it 1000 times.

post #1408 of 1634
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMcLargeHuge View Post

Am I the only one who finds The Empire Strikes Back the weakest of the trilogy? It's ending is legendary, but its kind of a slog. There's never the energy that's present in the first third of Return of the Jedi, or the whole of the first film. Certainly not bad, but it always confounds me when people boast that its better than the original or that they've watched it 1000 times.



.......

post #1409 of 1634

422557_336221486413525_2027201656_n.jpg

post #1410 of 1634
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMcLargeHuge View Post

Am I the only one who finds The Empire Strikes Back the weakest of the trilogy? It's ending is legendary, but its kind of a slog. There's never the energy that's present in the first third of Return of the Jedi, or the whole of the first film. Certainly not bad, but it always confounds me when people boast that its better than the original or that they've watched it 1000 times.


Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but to say that The Empire Strikes Back is lacking in energy is just factually incorrect.

post #1411 of 1634
Quote:
Originally Posted by TCD View Post


Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but to say that The Empire Strikes Back is lacking in anything compared to Return of the Jedi is just factually incorrect.



Fixed that for you.

post #1412 of 1634

I grew up preferring Return of the Jedi then eventually abandoned that notion once I matured and realized Empire was far better in its construction in every conceivable way.

 

The problem with Jedi is that once they leave Tatooine the movie is kinda dull outside of the throne room sequences. That ain't good. And it's certainly something Empire doesn't suffer from.

post #1413 of 1634
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post



Fixed that for you.


Empire lacks Jabba's Palace!

 

Jedi's my least favorite of the six.  Yes, all six.  It's as listless as the worst of the prequels, is pretty much a straight remake of Star Wars, and commits the utter sin of making Han and Leia boring.  The Throne Room stuff is gold, but that's eight minutes out of 130.

 

post #1414 of 1634

But at least Jedi has characters we give a shit about.

post #1415 of 1634

I'll rewatch the Jabba's Palace sequence for 2 hours straight instead of The Phantom Menace any day of the week.

post #1416 of 1634
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post

But at least Jedi has characters we give a shit about.


Not for anything they do in that movie, which means I'm not giving the flick any credit for it.  I care about Laurie Strode, but Halloween II is still shit.

 

post #1417 of 1634

Clean your fucking mouth out right now. Halloween II is the Dr. Loomis show and it's fucking brilliant. 

post #1418 of 1634

Halloween 5 is the Dr. Loomis show, too.  Stick up for that and fisticuffs will ensue.

post #1419 of 1634

Did he cause the flaming death of an innocent man in H5? No. Did he bravely sacrifice himself and bomb the shit out of Micheal and the hospital? With a name like yours, no wonder you're so anti Loomis. 

post #1420 of 1634
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Shape View Post


Not for anything they do in that movie, which means I'm not giving the flick any credit for it.

 


And it's still better than any of the prequels.

 

post #1421 of 1634

I guess I'm the only one who thinks the Jabba's Palace/Barge stuff goes on far too long. I'll give it credit for being visually different, but after nearly half an hour it communicates exactly two necessary plot points:

 

1: Luke is pretty much a full-on Jedi now.

 

2: Harrison Ford is in this movie.

 

That's really it. If rescuing Han was so important it couldn't wait until after the Endor offensive (Jabba's not going anywhere, and doesn't plan to kill Han as long as he stays frozen), there should have been something more for him to do besides punch a stormtrooper.

post #1422 of 1634
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Shape View Post



Empire lacks Jabba's Palace!

Jedi's my least favorite of the six.  Yes, all six.  It's as listless as the worst of the prequels, is pretty much a straight remake of Star Wars, and commits the utter sin of making Han and Leia boring.  The Throne Room stuff is gold, but that's eight minutes out of 130.

WHOA!

I mean really?!
post #1423 of 1634

I've always been a little unclear as to what the plan to rescue Han actually was, other than for all of them to stumble into Jabba's palace like a bunch of idiots and wait for Luke to suddenly kick the shit out of everyone.

post #1424 of 1634

Seems to me there were multiple layers.  If Leia was able to sneak them all out, Luke never goes in.

post #1425 of 1634
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post

Seems to me there were multiple layers.  If Leia was able to sneak them all out, Luke never goes in.


Leia brought a blaster to a lightsabre fight.  Dumb broad.

 

post #1426 of 1634
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post

Seems to me there were multiple layers.  If Leia was able to sneak them all out, Luke never goes in.



That would be quite the feat.  She gets Han, gets Chewie out of clink, gets 3-P0 away from Jabba (actually, fuck that) and then gets R2 off the sailbarge.

 

She'd have Lando as an assistant I guess but wow, that's a big ask.

 

Also, I always found it creepy as fuck that Luke actually force chokes the Gamoreans.  That's some Sithage going on right there.  Not sure Yoda would be too pleased.

post #1427 of 1634
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Bain View Post

 

Also, I always found it creepy as fuck that Luke actually force chokes the Gamoreans.  That's some Sithage going on right there.  Not sure Yoda would be too pleased.



I never realized before that that's what he did, but you're right. The guard even puts a hand up to its throat.

post #1428 of 1634
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerhead View Post



I never realized before that that's what he did, but you're right. The guard even puts a hand up to its throat.



Seriously? You never noticed he chokes the guards?

post #1429 of 1634

Nope. Always assumed he was just force-pushing them out of the way.

post #1430 of 1634

Maybe Luke used a Force "make them temporarily think that they're choking on a particularly large chunk of meat" mind trick!

 

Vader tended to sustain his deadly Force choke.  Luke just softly holds his hands up for a sec and keeps walking.

 

I'm not being serious.

post #1431 of 1634

Never understood why the Jedi never made more use of the Force-Nipple-Twist or the Force-Sideburn-tug - especially in the heat of a lightsaber fight...

post #1432 of 1634

Force Nut Crunch.

post #1433 of 1634
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nardo View Post

Force Nut Crunch.



"A part of this balanced breakfast, it is."

post #1434 of 1634
post #1435 of 1634

Ditching most of Phantom Menace makes so much sense.

post #1436 of 1634

Yup, love opening it on the Obi/QuiGon/Maul battle...ballsy.  This is something I will definitely try and get from a pirate site.

post #1437 of 1634

Long but interesting video describing a complete rewrite that makes TPM Obi-Wan's movie, and the prequels his trilogy about the duality of him vs. Anakin:

 

post #1438 of 1634

TPM was Obi-Wan's movie in Lucas's first draft. Doug Chiang's conceptual paintings even depict Obi-Wan alone.

 

 

tpm21.jpg

 

 

 

tpm22.jpg

 

tpm20.jpg

 

 

 

 

post #1439 of 1634

Man, those are awesome.  I love the fact that Obi Wan looks Mifune-ish, harking back to the original inspiration for the character.

post #1440 of 1634

The amount of time spent on people re-creating or re-editing a movie they didn't like is mind boggling. All that talent and energy could be used for something new and original of their own creation like Star Wars was for them in 1977.

post #1441 of 1634
Quote:
Originally Posted by machiav View Post

TPM was Obi-Wan's movie in Lucas's first draft. Doug Chiang's conceptual paintings even depict Obi-Wan alone.

 

 

tpm21.jpg

 

 

 

tpm22.jpg

 

tpm20.jpg

 

 

 

 



Why was this changed?

post #1442 of 1634
Quote:
Originally Posted by User_32 View Post

The amount of time spent on people re-creating or re-editing a movie they didn't like is mind boggling. All that talent and energy could be used for something new and original of their own creation like Star Wars was for them in 1977.


 

You don't don't set out to make a Star Wars, you set out to make something else and get lucky. It follows that there's a fascination with the version of Star Wars that didn't get "lucky". Pulling TPM etc apart reveals more about the cultural singularity of the original Star Wars - a movie that by all rights should have sucked as badly as TPM.  "Didn't like" is reductive and self defeating - why talk about movies at all? If you only have a basic response of "like"/"Didn't like" then that's the end of the story, turn off the internet. People are investigating WHY they didn't like it, when they love the originals. It's a completely valid cultural investigation.

 

And the idea that these people would otherwise be out creating the next Star Wars/Cultural Touchstone is ridiculous. These are once in a lifetime things because the alchemy involved is next to impossible to replicate. And it can't hurt them to get a clearer idea of how movies work. It's just an extension of film-school (you think Lucas and Co didn't deconstruct classic movies back in the day?) - only now these projects are available for other people to check out and join in or whatever.

post #1443 of 1634
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nardo View Post

People are investigating WHY they didn't like it, when they love the originals. It's a completely valid cultural investigation.

 

And the idea that these people would otherwise be out creating the next Star Wars/Cultural Touchstone is ridiculous. These are once in a lifetime things because the alchemy involved is next to impossible to replicate.


I'm fairly certain he's not advocating people try and make a Star Wars like hit, but something wholly original on their own, whatever that may be.  

 

And there is nothing left to discuss about Star Wars that hasn't already been discussed a thousand times already, with no new insights being gleamed, only the reveling in negativity for its own sake.  The horse is a compost heap...and it's long gotten to the point of being unhealthy.  It's like a divorced woman still whining and bitching endlessly about her ditched husband 10 years after the fact.  She's on her way to ulcers, migraines and if she's not careful, a stroke.

 

post #1444 of 1634

There comes a point when deconstructing the flaws of a movie stops being educational and becomes masturbatory. With the prequels, it reached that point many years ago and still never stopped. There's nothing left to be mined there, anything more is just people circlejerking because it makes them feel clever.

 

Two things always come to my mind with this stuff. One is that line in Ratatouille about how 'the average piece of junk is probably worth more than the critics' words declaring it so', and the other is that quote from Truffaut (I think?) who said the best way to criticize a film is to make your own.

 

So many people point at the redlettermedia reviews like they're great lessons in how to make a movie and tell a story. They actually have the means to create original work of their own, but what have they actually gone on to do with their supposed enlightened knowledge? They've put more into deconstruction than almost anyone, yet tearing down other people's work seems the only thing they can do that finds an audience. There's some choice irony in the way they themselves now find themselves going back to that well again and again to diminishing returns.

 

Just saw that this is basically just a longer version of what Ambler just said, oh well.


Edited by Paul C - 3/10/12 at 11:41am
post #1445 of 1634
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul C View Post

There comes a point when deconstructing the flaws of a movie stops being educational and becomes masturbatory. With the prequels, it reached that point many years ago and still never stopped. There's nothing left to be mined there, anything more is just people circlejerking because it makes them feel clever.

 

Two things always come to my mind with this stuff. One is that line in Ratatouille about how 'the average piece of junk is probably worth more than the critics' words declaring it so', and the other is that quote from Truffaut (I think?) who said the best way to criticize a film is to make your own.

 

So many people point at the redlettermedia reviews like they're great lessons in how to make a movie and tell a story. They actually have the means to create original work of their own, but what have they actually gone on to do with their supposed enlightened knowledge? They've put more into deconstruction than almost anyone, yet tearing down other people's work seems the only thing they can do that finds an audience. There's some choice irony in the way they themselves now find themselves going back to that well again and again to diminishing returns.

 

Just saw that this is basically just a longer version of what Ambler just said, oh well.


I never got into the red letter stuff...I watched a little bit of the Phantom Menace one, but it just made me uncomfortable...like the bully in school who mercilessly points out the flaws in an unpopular kid.  It goes from being funny to cruel, very quickly.  Okay, so Lucas made a bad movie (or three), so what?...why do we need hours of dissection?  All that energy into tearing something down so mercilessly?  It just reeks of butthurt fanboys with no life and possibly some acute OCD like mental issue.  I just do not understand the appeal of those vids.  

 

There's a comment on one of the youtube vids that sums it up for me:

 

Quote:
"These reviews just make me appreciate how terrible these movie are more."

 

Appreciate?  Have fanboys gone so far down the hole of hatred that they now ENJOY wallowing in the negativity directed at the prequels...like some drug?  I tend to avoid stuff I don't like.

post #1446 of 1634

You know, if the problem is people devoting their lives to interpreting a text they didn't create, we could be talking about works a lot more culturally influential than Star Wars. And a couple thousand years older too.

post #1447 of 1634

If hating on the prequels is masturbatory, sign me up. I'll happily cop to being like a baboon with a case of Viagra.

post #1448 of 1634

Hating the prequels isn't masturbatory, hating them with neverending frequency is.  Godfather 3 sucks, but I rarely think about or discuss it.

post #1449 of 1634

 

I wish more people who are dissatisfied with the prequels would take that stance.

 

As for myself I enjoyed TPM 3D in the theater on Friday night, checked out the creepy as fuck first part of the CLONE WARS Season Finale and watched the AOTC Blu-Ray tonight. I love how the textures and colors of the Battle of Geonosis pop out in such great detail now, it's really amazing. Oh and I'm just finishing the DARTH PLAGUEIS novel as well, which sheds quite a bit of light on how Palpatine became a Dark Lord of the Sith and many other things.

 

So yeah, I will ALWAYS like Star Wars.

 

 

 

post #1450 of 1634

You've read DARTH PLAGUEIS? It's okay i guess.

 

I've generally sworn off Star Wars Tie-in novels. Especially those FATE OF THE JEDI books.

 

On the other hand, John Ostrander and Jan Duursema do some awesome writing in their Star Wars comics. Especially in LEGACY and REPUBLIC.

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