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I still DO like Star Wars - Page 8

post #351 of 1634
1/7/10 at 5:03pm
Okay, I have serious doubts I'd be able to lift the hardcover.
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post #352 of 1634
1/7/10 at 5:05pm
Joking or no, you're absolutely right. That thing was a pain to read in hardcover form.
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post #353 of 1634
1/7/10 at 5:08pm
Empire is worth every penny, I just can't wait to read Jedi.. An honest account of that film would be entertaining. I have the "paper back" and that monster is a pain to read.
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post #354 of 1634
1/7/10 at 5:10pm
Let's pray for a foreward by David Lynch!
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post #355 of 1634
1/7/10 at 5:15pm
YES! Make it so!
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post #356 of 1634
1/7/10 at 5:19pm
The Making of The Return of the Jedi

Foreward by David Lynch

"It was the most painful of headaches as George led me through the halls of Lucasfilm..."
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post #357 of 1634
1/7/10 at 7:07pm
I might spend a little extra dough for this one:

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post #358 of 1634
1/7/10 at 7:19pm
I'd buy that for a dollar.
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post #359 of 1634
1/7/10 at 11:31pm
The idea of the Holiday Special still confuses me today..
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post #360 of 1634
1/9/10 at 1:24am
Can someone bring me up to speed on The Holiday Special and the stigma attached? I missed that whole party growing up.

(I've never seen it)
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post #361 of 1634
1/9/10 at 2:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post
Can someone bring me up to speed on The Holiday Special and the stigma attached? I missed that whole party growing up.

(I've never seen it)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...9610753051544#

There's a reason George Lucas has it in the vaults never to be released. It's horrible.

Bonus: There's some commercials from 1979 in that video so there's that.
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post #362 of 1634
1/9/10 at 2:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post
Can someone bring me up to speed on The Holiday Special and the stigma attached? I missed that whole party growing up.

(I've never seen it)
As someone who is still proud to be a Star Wars fanboy, the holiday special is terrible, it's so terrible, that when I watch it I feel shameful for all who took part in it.
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post #363 of 1634
1/9/10 at 3:00am
It's so fucking terrible, The Star Wars Holiday Special.

I'm a dyed in the wool Star Wars fanboy since I was 5 and I've tried to watch this a few times now, thinking "just sit through it, it's not that bad". But it is, it truely is. 30-odd minutes of wookie chat?!

Christ alone knows what went through George Lucas' head when it aired.
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post #364 of 1634
1/9/10 at 3:32am
Okay I'm watching it...what the fuck is this shit???
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post #365 of 1634
1/9/10 at 3:44am
Yeah, it's bad. But the bad stuff is SOOOOO bad, it goes around the horn into the surreal zone of brilliantly bad. Seeing (a possibly coked-up) Carrie Fisher sing lyrics to the STAR WARS theme as a bored and annoyed Harrison Ford stares off into space is sublime. On the plus side, the Nelvana animated segment introducing Boba Fett to the world is still kinda cool. Feels like an episode from the HEAVY METAL movie.
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post #366 of 1634
1/9/10 at 3:49am
Why is it so wookie centric? Did I miss the part where Chewie stole A New Hope?

What's with Luke's hair? Why is it so fucking weird? I can't watch this anymore.
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post #367 of 1634
1/9/10 at 3:58am
Far be it from me to defend The Star Wars Holiday Special, but it has a couple of things going for it.

Primarily, it shows just how far ahead of contemporary mainstream pop-culture Star Wars really was. The industry rank-and-file plainly didn't know what to make of it. (Cue some evil soul to provide a Youtube link to Donny & Marie's Star Wars show here.)

Secondarily, although Lucas didn't put his name on it I can't help thinking that the Special is at least an attempt to express his oft-aired theory of using audio-visual techniques to create environments, to convey information at a more elemental level than simple narrative. That would at least explain the untranslated Wookiee-speak, both here and in the films. (There's never any question about what Chewbacca is saying at any given time, because his meaning is clear in the way he says it.) It might also explain the Special's repeated motif of people watching abstract performance pieces on various personal-entertainment devices. The show might just be criticizing us, the audience, for passively gorging on our own mindless entertainments.
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post #368 of 1634
1/9/10 at 4:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post
Why is it so wookie centric? Did I miss the part where Chewie stole A New Hope?

What's with Luke's hair? Why is it so fucking weird? I can't watch this anymore.
Chewie was kind of a breakout character. I think the Special goes with Wookiees because (A) Peter Mayhew came cheap and/or (B) because of Lucas's presumed theory that an appealing alien character would have wider appeal than an Americanesque human. Remember, he initially wanted Luke Skywalker to be a dwarf...

I don't have any info to back this up but I think the show was taped shortly after Mark Hamill's car crash. That could explain why he's so heavily made-up.
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post #369 of 1634
1/9/10 at 4:15am
Congrats, you may be the first person ever who tried to mount a defense of The Holiday Special.
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post #370 of 1634
1/9/10 at 5:07am
Wait, did someone try to defend the Star Wars Holiday Special? Just, NO.

I watched it once and that was enough. I can't comfortably enjoy Star Wars if I think of it.

I wish Fisher had touched on it in Wishful Drinking. That would have made my day.
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post #371 of 1634
1/9/10 at 5:50am
http://bomba-fantastica.com/Bestoftheworst/Starwars.htm

Quote:
There are overly-long sequences of holographic circus acrobats, a performance by Jefferson Starship, and several dull retreads of would-be Carol Burnett material brought to still-life by "special guest" Harvey Korman. The man-voiced Beatrice Arthur reveals herself to be the owner of the "Creature Cantina" and she roughs us up with a song. Art Carney is the saddest special appearance here and he tries, bless him, he tries. His efforts are in vain, however, as not even Yoda could pull this failure out of the muck. Did I mention that the Wookiees don't speak English? Nope... and this is no "Quest for Fire." The Wookiees grunt, groan, and mewl through the entire two hours to the point where you're happy to hear a human voice... even if it is Beatrice Arthur's.

Chewbacca makes it home in time for "Life Day" and he shares this special time with his friends Luke Skywalker (a pre-car accident Mark Hamill), Han Solo (yes, Harrison Ford, who looks like he's going to kill his agent) and Princess Leia (a coked-up Carrie Fisher who does Bea Arthur one better and belts out a tune about friendship or something as she drapes herself all over Chewbacca.)
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post #372 of 1634
1/9/10 at 6:01am
Post-car accident Mark Hamill, wasn't it? Which explained the frightening amount of make-up caked onto his face for the special.
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post #373 of 1634
1/9/10 at 6:03am
Yeah, maybe. That's just a friend's review, he's not steeped in the history so much.

So Chewbacca's dad's name is Itchy, and his son is named "Lumpy"? I don't think this prefigures George being ahead of the pop culture curve, as is suggested above; I think it shows you how the entire franchise was always a cunt hair away from being ruined by its creator.
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post #374 of 1634
1/9/10 at 6:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abbott & Prospero View Post
Post-car accident Mark Hamill, wasn't it? Which explained the frightening amount of make-up caked onto his face for the special.
My theory anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil View Post
So Chewbacca's dad's name is Itchy, and his son is named "Lumpy"? I don't think this prefigures George being ahead of the pop culture curve, as is suggested above; I think it shows you how the entire franchise was always a cunt hair away from being ruined by its creator.
Well, I was talking about the original film versus the way it was interpreted for the Special. The people who made the Special hailed from the same crowd who did The Carol Burnett Show and Sonny and Cher, and I can clearly envision some worn-out gag writer saying "His name's Chewy? He got a brother named Crunchy?"

But yes. Always a hair away. Look what happened when he finally got his dwarf movie made.
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post #375 of 1634
1/9/10 at 6:33am
Wait, I didn't reach the part with coke head Carrie...gotta go back.
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post #376 of 1634
1/9/10 at 6:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil View Post
I think it shows you how the entire franchise was always a cunt hair away from being ruined by its creator.
It's late, i'm bored, so I'm throwing this out there, but It's always been my utterly baseless theory that Empire was an anomaly that resulted from Star Wars' best picture nomination. Lucas got starry eyed and was chasing the gold with the second picture. It's what happened with Jackson and Kong, where a movie about a giant ape fighting dinosaurs didn't need to be turned into a bloated 3 hour prestige picture with ill advised Joseph Conrad quotes thrown into the mix to give the whole thing some added heft. But after ROTK's run at the Oscars, Jackson wanted to take Kong to the next ceremony. It's just that with Empire, something great actually resulted from it. Lucas and company made something that stood out far and above what George had ever initially intended. But alas, not even a best picture nom this time out, an initial set of mixed reviews that accompanied its release, and outside of Yoda, not as many merchandisable characters as there were coming out of the original film. With the next one, well, it didn't need to be that good. And Lucas dropped any pretenses of this being a prestige genre series and dove straight into making a burping, farting, singing aliens, tarzan yelling, teddy bear, pew pew laser movie. Now, in retrospect, it's Empire that just doesn't belong.
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post #377 of 1634
1/9/10 at 7:18am
As I look back, I come increasingly to the knowledge that there are only two good movies in this entire series. It's sad.
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post #378 of 1634
1/9/10 at 7:43am
My other baseless almost sleepy-time theory: The whole jedi philosophy presented in the prequels is not only a hodgepodge of Zen Buddhism, Taoist and other eastern religious beliefs but more importantly the externalized justification of the lifestyle of a man deeply terrified of women. The crux of Anakin's fall becomes analogous of Lucas' fears of ever becoming emotionally attached to another woman.
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post #379 of 1634
1/9/10 at 8:13am
Well I know Lucas wasn't interested in fast women or those kinds of relationships. I can't remember where, but I read a quote from him where he essentially said, "you become famous and some playmate of the month is coming after you, and you're just a funny kid. Life is too short for that."

I know Marcia Lucas was very unhappy late in the game after Empire...she said he never wanted to go out or take vacations after they got rich. Filmmakers like Lucas and Spielberg tend to be immature when it comes to women (I'm talking late 70s early 80s)...they haven't developed the social muscles to flourish in romantic relationships...I know Spielberg has Aspergers syndrome, which is a social disorder.

I think Lucas was like any other film geek...focused on movies to the exclusion of everything else. His zen Buddhist mindset came after the car crash that nearly killed him. Before that he did alot of cruising and fast racing and was probably into girls, but after the crash, he admitted somewhere his priorities changed in a major way and he stopped being lazy.
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post #380 of 1634
1/9/10 at 10:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abbott & Prospero View Post
My other baseless almost sleepy-time theory: The whole jedi philosophy presented in the prequels is not only a hodgepodge of Zen Buddhism, Taoist and other eastern religious beliefs but more importantly the externalized justification of the lifestyle of a man deeply terrified of women.
My irony meter almost exploded.

I think he's doing just fine.

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post #381 of 1634
1/9/10 at 10:47am
Did Lucas actually have anything to do with the show? I was always under the impression that he was somehow legally obliged to lease the characters.

Tell me he had nothing to do with it!
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post #382 of 1634
1/9/10 at 10:49am
I forgot that the Holiday Special was two hours long. Gods, I don't think I could watch that much of it, even ironically.
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post #383 of 1634
1/9/10 at 2:02pm
Lucas was initially involved with the Holiday Special:

http://www.vanityfair.com/magazine/2..._special200812
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post #384 of 1634
1/9/10 at 2:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tits Pervert View Post
My irony meter almost exploded.

I think he's doing just fine.
No fucking way. Not only is George not a handsome fellow, he doesn't really strike me as a conversationalist or an interesting person in any way. I wonder what he could offer a wo... oh yeah.
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post #385 of 1634
1/9/10 at 3:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post
I know Spielberg has Aspergers syndrome, which is a social disorder.
I never heard about this...
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post #386 of 1634
1/9/10 at 3:39pm
I like that John opened hard, before easing back, and letting Lucas piss on the naysayers.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tu...0/george-lucas
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post #387 of 1634
1/9/10 at 3:40pm
Wut the!?
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post #388 of 1634
1/9/10 at 3:49pm
His stubborn adherence to his no-longer existent jawline is doubtlessly a result of too many yes men. Gary Kurtz would have stepped up and said something.
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post #389 of 1634
1/9/10 at 3:57pm
My god... that thing looks like it's breathing on its own...
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post #390 of 1634
1/9/10 at 4:15pm
I gotta say, he's got a healthy attitude about it. He made his films, it's up to you to see them and decide how you feel about them, and he's not beating himself up over the reaction.
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post #391 of 1634
1/9/10 at 4:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Litmus Configuration View Post
Yeah, it's bad. But the bad stuff is SOOOOO bad, it goes around the horn into the surreal zone of brilliantly bad.
No it doesn't, it just hurts. Two minutes.
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post #392 of 1634
1/9/10 at 5:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tits Pervert View Post
My irony meter almost exploded.

I think he's doing just fine.
How dare he dispute my baseless, almost sleepy-time theory with contrary photographic evidence! The nerve of him.
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post #393 of 1634
1/9/10 at 5:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luca S. View Post
No fucking way. Not only is George not a handsome fellow, he doesn't really strike me as a conversationalist or an interesting person in any way. I wonder what he could offer a wo... oh yeah.
I heard he's a goofball when you get to know him...fairly sweet and gentle. Like a wookie.
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post #394 of 1634
1/9/10 at 5:50pm
He seemed pretty affable in that Daily Show clip.
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post #395 of 1634
1/9/10 at 5:57pm
Heheh, it's sad that we even have to address his affability. As if we were certain that he would come across as a dour asshole who touched us in our bathing suit areas.
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post #396 of 1634
1/9/10 at 6:05pm
Thread Starter 
After watching 1 to many videos, Lucas seems like a likable guy. He did donate quite a bit to various film schools and has pushed the envelope of digital special effects. That said, he's still not that great of a film writer or director. He is a great producer, but when he's in charge with no disciplinary supervision, he gets carried away.

I compare him to Bryan Singer & Spielberg quite a bit. He can make a great movie, but if you give him a blank check (see Superman Returns or Indy 4), then he loses focus.
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post #397 of 1634
1/9/10 at 6:19pm
Every morning I hear his name on NPR every morning as the creator of Edutopia! Your resource for what works in public education!!!
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post #398 of 1634
1/9/10 at 7:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Litmus Configuration View Post
Lucas was initially involved with the Holiday Special:

http://www.vanityfair.com/magazine/2..._special200812
Quote:
Originally Posted by That Article
But when Vilanch heard Lucas’s storyline at a development meeting at Smith and Hemion’s L.A. offices, he quickly realized that a “big challenge” lay ahead. Lucas was intent on building The Star Wars Holiday Special, as it would be called, around Wookiees—specifically, the family of Chewbacca, Han Solo’s shaggy sidekick, as they outwitted Imperial forces to come together on Life Day, the Wookiee equivalent of Christmas. Suddenly, Vilanch says, the special was in danger of looking like “one long episode of Lassie.”

“I said: ‘You’ve chosen to build a story around these characters who don’t speak. The only sound they make is like fat people having an orgasm,’” the 250-plus-pound Vilanch recalls. “In fact, I told Lucas he could just leave a tape recorder in my bedroom and I’d be happy to do all the looping and Foley work for him.”

Lucas met these comments with a “glacial” look. “This was his vision, and he could not be moved,” Vilanch says. “And of course Star Wars was so gigantic that he had been validated a hundred times over. So he had what a director needs to have, which is this insane belief in their personal vision, and he was somehow going to make it work.”
At least Lucas appears to have learned something from the experience. The developers who created The Force Unleashed said that their first pitch was a game built around Wookiees. Lucas nixed it on the grounds that because Wookiees don't talk, it's very difficult for them to generate drama.
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post #399 of 1634
1/9/10 at 7:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAIRUS View Post
After watching 1 to many videos, Lucas seems like a likable guy. He did donate quite a bit to various film schools and has pushed the envelope of digital special effects. That said, he's still not that great of a film writer or director. He is a great producer, but when he's in charge with no disciplinary supervision, he gets carried away.
I disagree with this assessment. I actually think that Lucas is a pretty spectacular visual director, and has an amazing eye. I think his problems all lie in the writing; if he weren't so obsessed with maintaining control over production, he'd let someone with a better grasp of the written word take over that duty. For the most part, a director can only make as good a film as the writer has provided. He makes it difficult to allow his skills as a visual storyteller to come through, as he's provided himself with so little story to work with.

I'm also not seeing why you think he's a great producer. Howard the Duck and Willow don't offer evidence to support this.
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post #400 of 1634
1/9/10 at 7:48pm
When I look at the things that really work in the prequels -- Anakin's search for his mother and the finale of AOTC, Order 66 and the finale of ROTS, for example -- they're all wordless moments, just images and music. Lucas can pull those off easily. I'd be curious to see him tackle a Fantasia-esque piece, because he seems more comfortable dealing with emotions and images than with dialog.
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