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I still DO like Star Wars - Page 2

post #51 of 4308
I like it when he accidentally kills all those battle droids.
post #52 of 4308
Oh, you.
post #53 of 4308
Why does Zam Wessell shoot her own droid instead of Obi-Wan?
post #54 of 4308
Because girls are awful with blasters. Duh, Luca.
post #55 of 4308
Okay, now you're pushing it.
post #56 of 4308
I like that Anakin mind-tricked that rhino thing in the arena.
post #57 of 4308
So is Cuchulain the new designated troll target? He said what he meant in what was, I thought, pretty plain English. There exist a lot of sequels that rise above the movies they follow, but Empire blows away A New Hope by an unusually wide margin.

I don't agree*, but it's never occurred to me to pretend that I can't read the English language in an attempt to make someone else look stupid. For what it's worth, that ploy never works the way some of you guys seem to think it does.




*I'm with Bailey on this. He nails what makes the first Star Wars work, and why I love movies that are willing to stretch the running time in order to let the story build.
post #58 of 4308
I definitely saw what he was driving at.

While Godfather II is pretty much the undisputed champ of sequels (and way up there as far as overall films are concerned), the gap between that and Part I isn't nearly as big as the gap between Ep. IV and V.

A lot of people could seem to work out that he wasn't saying that Empire is a better film than Godfather II. Or they did, and just wanted to be snarky. This is a Star Wars thread, after all.
post #59 of 4308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rheokhu View Post
So is Cuchulain the new designated troll target? He said what he meant in what was, I thought, pretty plain English. There exist a lot of sequels that rise above the movies they follow, but Empire blows away A New Hope by an unusually wide margin.
And the Bride of Frankenstein example still stands. If you disagree, I suggest watching them both again.
post #60 of 4308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil View Post
And the Bride of Frankenstein example still stands. If you disagree, I suggest watching them both again.
That's something I need to do: correct my ignorance regarding those films.

I'm compiling a big list of films to dive into for the first time when I get my new projector/audio set up at the house. These are up there.
post #61 of 4308
I think you can make the argument that The Empire Strikes Back is a weird film for its kind (a big summer blockbuster sequel). But by labeling it weird simply because its better than the first doesn't make a lick of sense.

And honestly...Bride of Frankenstein is weird. It has the author of the novel showing up not only in a preface explaining the original inspiration for the story, but also in the end...as the Bride herself. Wrap your head around that shit!
post #62 of 4308
Pretorius could make like little living Star Wars action figures to play with. A little Zuckuss, 4-LOM, Bossk and Dengar grown from seed. They could live in the Kenner playsets with the ballerina, devil, mermaid and King and Queen.

Sorry. This thread is causing me to mix up my movie thoughts.
post #63 of 4308
Star Trek's better.
post #64 of 4308
I like the whole series. Even the prequels.

I'm positive a few people here just filed that fact away to whip out during some entirely unrelated discussion ('Pfft, you didn't like (place random film here), but you liked Revenge of the Sith?'). Still, I'm guessing MOST of you will recognize how counterproductive such actions would be, which is why I talk movies on CHUD and nowhere else on the web (not even the site I write for, for the most part).

I wrote an article on it for DVDActive and everyone hated me. Fans and haters take these films too seriously. There is a semi-rich mythology there, but overall they're pretty much expensive art flicks made to please a single person.

I'm actually surprised more Chewers don't like Lucas' 'fuck you' attitude concerning them. I kinda think it's cool.
post #65 of 4308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parker View Post
I think you can make the argument that The Empire Strikes Back is a weird film for its kind (a big summer blockbuster sequel). But by labeling it weird simply because its better than the first doesn't make a lick of sense.

And honestly...Bride of Frankenstein is weird. It has the author of the novel showing up not only in a preface explaining the original inspiration for the story, but also in the end...as the Bride herself. Wrap your head around that shit!
Again, the point wasn't that it stuck out because it was better, the point was it stuck out because it was just so much better. As Joeypants points out, my distinction between it and Godfather II wasn't that it was the better film or better than the original but that Empire eclipses Star Wars in a way GFII just doesn't do to GF1.

Godfather II is the better film. Hell, it's better than most films. But if you watch the Godfather films closely or have someone point it out to you, the main narrative in all three of them differ pretty much only in detail. What makes Godfather II the better film isn't because it delivers something you couldn't expect from watching Godfather I--you can literally expect the story to unfold exactly the way it does from watching The Godfather--what makes it better is the way the two stories in that film comment on each other and the overall story. It's a master work, like the fresco on good and bad government.

Empire, on the other hand, is simply remarkable because it is an excellent film that happens to be the sequel to a pretty good one.

On the Bride of Frankenstein, I don't really remember anything that totally jumped my expectations when it came to sequel to a Universal monster movie, but I'm willing to revisit it and reconsider.
post #66 of 4308
I usually refer to Godfather II as the better film, but Godfather the more immediate and visceral film, and thus the more watchable of the two.

And Bride of Frankenstein is the best of the Universal Monster films, mostly for Whale's totally gay direction.
post #67 of 4308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe Powers View Post
I'm actually surprised more Chewers don't like Lucas' 'fuck you' attitude concerning them. I kinda think it's cool.
The easy answer: We would if they were good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuchulain View Post
On the Bride of Frankenstein, I don't really remember anything that totally jumped my expectations when it came to sequel to a Universal monster movie, but I'm willing to revisit it and reconsider.
1. A score. The first film did not have one.
2. An awesome goddamn score. By Franz Waxman.
3. Ernest Thesiger
4. Una O'Connor
5. Insanely elaborate sets that blow the first ones away.
6. Turns out the Monster can talk.
7. Turns out Karloff can act.
8. The old blind man teaching the monster about food and fire and God.
9. Homunculi
10. Bride hiss!
11. Whale's totally gay direction.

I'm not trying to argue the giant gap between Star Wars and Empire; I'm just saying that Frankenstein and Bride have a nearly identical gap.
post #68 of 4308
So, did any of you guys actually like the first special editions from the 90s? Besides the glaring addition of Jabba the Hutt in Star Wars, I actually thought the update improved some of the films, especially Return of the Jedi. The new John William's piece at the end of ROTJ really works for me.
post #69 of 4308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe Powers View Post

I'm actually surprised more Chewers don't like Lucas' 'fuck you' attitude concerning them. I kinda think it's cool.
Eh, I'd buy this more if he didn't so blatantly cater to fans' (perceived) wishes on so many fronts. Writing Jar-Jar out, shoving Boba/Jango Fett in, making Yoda an action hero, having a wookie-centric battle, etc; these don't strike me as bold artistic choices, but LCD pandering. He wasn't trying to be so out of touch with the average movie-goer, kit just happened to be the case.

And I think people would've cut Cuchulain more slack on the Godfather angle if he hadn't dropped it in the same breath as when he declared Empire a character piece on par with The Searchers. ESB is many things, including a fantastic sequel and nearly perfect popcorn entertainment, but that's just plain ol' hyperbole.
post #70 of 4308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac View Post
The new John William's piece at the end of ROTJ really works for me.
You mean the piece that sounded like something written to be played at a Rainforest Cafe?
post #71 of 4308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac View Post
The new John William's piece at the end of ROTJ really works for me.
I miss the Yub Yub song. Plus, "Jedi Rocks" is worse that doggie cancer.
post #72 of 4308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuchulain View Post
With ESB, it's kind of hard to reconcile that that film is the follow up to something that was simply a Saturday morning serial with a budget and some imagery from Ford and Kurosawa and thematic elements from Campbell's take on storytelling thrown in.

Not even Godfather, Part II manages to do that. It is undeniably better than the first film but it isn't a revelation when compared to the first film.
Jesus wept, I love Empire as much as the next guy but... Christ on a bicycle.

I enjoyed introducing the original pre SE's of the original trilogy a couple of years ago to my missus who'd never seen them. I'll happily watch them again in a few years, maybe with a niece or nephew. They'll always be childhood signposts to me and damn fun films. I just have no interest in anything to do with them post-1983.*


*(except maybe, at a pinch, the Clone Wars short animated pieces and the tv series)
post #73 of 4308
Dark Knight's better'n Empire.
post #74 of 4308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ballack 13 View Post
Er, what?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ogre View Post
Pssst... it's only been 4 years...
Oops.

I swore off of Star Wars after episode 2. I did watch episode 3 out of morbid curiosity though hence my time-line screw up. Anyway, the long break served me well. I can love again.
post #75 of 4308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac View Post
So, did any of you guys actually like the first special editions from the 90s?
I loved them as a 17 year old. As a grown up, minus Jabba, the only changes I really hated were made to Jedi, like the dumbass song and the beak on the pit monster.
post #76 of 4308
I don't know if I ever liked Star Wars. I was seven when it came out and quite sheltered pop-culture-wise-- a total PBS kid. The family all went out to see it at the Coronet sometime in the first month-- massive line, full house-- and I think I only made it as far as the bloody arm on the cantina floor. Understand, I'd never seen a movie in which anybody died, or possibly even fought, before.

So by that point, if you'll recall, there's the gunfighting, the throat-crushing, the sandperson attack and those smoldering skeletons outside the Lars homestead. And I didn't even know what to make of droid abuse. Mom and I spent the rest of the show in the lobby, chatting with a nice blind lady who thought the whole thing was just too loud.

And that was it for Star Wars, for me, until school started up in the fall. Then it became immediately clear that if I wanted to play with the other kids I'd have to fake it until I caught up. I read the Marvel Comics adaptation and The Star Wars Storybook, and then the book that changed my life: The Star Wars Album.

This was the Rosetta Stone I needed. A slim, quickly-published volume that laid out the production's origins, influences and arcana in simple 3rd-grade accessible terms. One page featured a Flash Gordon comic strip, another compared C-3PO and R2-D2 to Laurel and Hardy, a third identified Han Solo as a variant on the archetypal Western gunslinger, with a still of John Wayne and the immortal caption "Get out of town before the twin suns set." I made mental notes to watch out for these other as-yet unseen artists and their works.

There were also pictures of the actors between takes (Carrie Fisher noting that Peter Cushing was 'a sweetheart' in real life), a shot of Peter Mayhew in the makeup chair, and a look at the miniatures used for special-effects shots. I realized that movies don't just happen; that everything we see in them is the result of a creative decision. I stopped being a passive observer and became a movie lover. Not because of the film, but because of that book.

I still don't know if I like Star Wars. I have a feeling Lucas doesn't either. But I wouldn't be who I am without it.
post #77 of 4308
Thread Starter 
Watching jedi right now and man that song was the worst. I'll provide some running commentary.
post #78 of 4308
The concept of the Special Editions was exciting because it was Star Wars back on the big screen. But the only one that was an overall improvement was Jedi. Star Wars was just mauled (the interminable ride through Mos Eisley, Greedo shooting first, Han running into an entire hold full of stormtroopers, none changes for the better), Empire had some minor improvements (the Wampa, the expanded Cloud City) but that god-awful Vader sequence at the end (which marked the start of Lucas' obsession with showing every takeoff and landing possible), but the new Jedi ending at least gave the sense that something had happened on a galactic scale.
post #79 of 4308
Eh, I'll still take 'Yub Nub' over young Anakins ghost any day personally - and don't even get me started on the redone song in Jabbas palace. Christ.
post #80 of 4308
None of the changes to Jedi make it a good or better film.
post #81 of 4308
Thread Starter 
Okay I'm Indian. Lets set somethings straight with the steriotypes. Its the younger generation who are good with computers, not the adults. So when a mom wants you to type something simple, its not. Hence a 30 min break right after the song, my dad starts to watch the movie and starts to skip around to his favorite parts. So just started from the beginning, told people to leave me alone and here we go.


Running commentary

9:10 pm
God its been a long day, and nagging people are very bothersome (aka super religious mother singing like Julie Andrews in Sanskrit). Time to watch Jedi. Oh yeah I got a Sony 55" hdtv with onkyo 606 watching on a PS3 with Polk Audio speakers for you people who want to know my junk. Oh and I'm gonna watch this film loud, lets see if we can get the neighbors over so I can kick them back out (I live in a house, not an apt).

9:20
Does Luke Skywalker gonna haveta choke a pig? Why? Rancor, Luke looks like he's at bat. Rancoor dead, and his fat lover is crying.

9:28
A long time ago, in a galaxy far far away, Han Solo wishes there were such a thing as wire transfers. No Jabba issues. Oh and Bobba Fett likes bondage with Luke (he just roped him) oooh now hes dead.

9:35

Yoda rocks. Puppets rock.

9:48
Man surround sound is pretty good. Oh ships look amazing for a DVD, makes me wish Lucas filmed the prequels as if they were filmed in the 70s (cheap, using models, 70s clothes etc)

9:56
Tree Speed Chase- Now this is pod racing. Oh shit here come the Ewoks.

10:01
"My son is with them, I have felt him." Heheheh okay but man Darth Vader is a punk bitch in the film. "Yes masta"

10:07
Ewoks eat humans! Am I the only one who sees a similarity to Pirates 2 here. Actually savages that were human would of worked better now that I think about it.

10:16
Leia gets hit with the knowledge of being Luke's sister and Darth Vader is her father too. She needed a bigger display of emotion.

10:32

Looking back, this guy was a genius at his whole manipulation of the system and rise to power. In fact even the prequels, his storyline was fun to watch. Final battle now. Ewoks everywhere, and for some reason I wish Han was piloting the Falcon.

10:41

No shit sherlock!
post #82 of 4308
Young Anakin wasn't in the original Special Edition, he didn't show up until they hit DVD.
post #83 of 4308
Thread Starter 
This is finally awesome now. Don't make fun of Luke's sister.

11:02
Movie over, see all around the universe they're pretty happy about it. Waaaaiit, Hayden is there?! Okay maybe the official explaination might be that you return to the good form, but I figured during the time when Darth Vader threw the Emperor over, he was good for a lil while, so that form should of stayed.

Han Solo, man I prefer you as a scoundrel. Character development I guess.


Overall there is something wrong with this film. It doesn't feel organic, but more check list style film making. Looks like they run of material at times, but something was definitly off. I don't hate the movie as much as I did though, it pretty much coasted on Empire's good will.

Sooo here come the prequels i guess, or at least episode III (no commentary I guess I did this as I have never sat through Jedi completely, and also beta testing some software on running commentaries so thought I'd give it a shot).
post #84 of 4308
I think you guys are coming down a bit hard on Cuchulain. In terms of pacing, world expanding, and character development, huge leaps in acting, composition, and effects I can not think of to many movies that get everything in the mix as right as ESB. My list for ESB would be longer than Phil's for Bride, yes Bride is great for balls out quirk and symbolism, but I would put the Invisible Man as the more important Universal Picture if we are getting serious. Also continuing my rambling, has there ever been a better puppeteer performance than the one Frank Oz delivered in Empire? Not to mention one of John Williams best scores, also the LSO has never sounded so vibrant.

Now Jedi I can barely stand to watch, save for anything in the Death Star, or the epically gorgeous battle. I still can not believe George did not do all his money could to get Steven to direct it, or throw more at Lynch.

Star Wars seems to lose its luster each time I watch it, save for Guinness. The better pure pulp would be Raiders.

The best pure Lucas is THX, the better Lucas character piece is Graffiti.

Episode One is somewhat great in its approach, and willingness to be different, but then Lucas went and killed the only two things that worked about it Neeson and Maul. That being said Ewan MacGregor deserves some sort of medal for the heart he gave to this and it seemingly destroying his career in the process as well.

It also helps to watch this and pretend its April 1980
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH9z8se3Aho
post #85 of 4308
I wasn't old enough to see Hope in the theater...thank God my dad took me to see Jedi in '83 because I wouldn't be where I am now. I can't describe the experience in words, it changed my very young life...as I'm sure many others can attest to.

Empire was always the scary Star Wars movie for me, I always hesitated watching it because it was so intense and serious...I always enjoyed Jedi the most because it's the first and only one I saw in a theater (besides the special editions and prequels later).

It's pretty amazing that Star Wars will go down in history as the most successfully butchered franchise in history...I got The Wizard of Oz blu-ray in the mail today and GOD does it look incredible! A 70 year old movie puts most other modern blu-rays to shame...it's sad because we wont be getting a restoration of the original Star Wars films 40 years from now when Lucas is long dead. Fuckin' prick.
post #86 of 4308
I will always enjoy the Saga, it's been a part of my subconscious since I got an X-Wing for Christmas back in the early 80s.
post #87 of 4308
Thread Starter 
I wish I could find one of my first posts, but I had outlined how Episode I should of have already had the Clone Wars going on. It would of dealt with Anakin and Padme, both ignored Jedi and Senators respectively being ignored while Palpatine rises to power.

Maul wouldn't have died till Episode II as Anakin would take him down to be Palpatine's secret apprentice. It would of been more like the Clone War cartoons, while Anakin and Padme work on their marriage and hide their kids from the Jedi. Palpatine helps them for favors from now Queen Padme. Also Obi-Wan keeps getting name recognition and medals, while Anakin was the true hero.

Episode III would of been pretty much the same, but I wanted a scene showing Anakin's power (he used the Force to physically bring down the Temple, in a Holocaust symbolic gesture). I'd keep Anakin's fate vague to have the ESB reveal still work on multiple levels. Palpatine would manipulate Anakin to turn on Obi-Wan, which he would personally be itching for anyways.
post #88 of 4308
Would HAVE.

Would HAVE.

Would HAVE.
post #89 of 4308
Trying to come up with a better plot is a massive trap. I can think of a million ways I'd rather the prequels worked out, but it's all moot now. Too many things would have to be changed to make them traditionally good movies. I was still personally moved by the most important emotional beats in RotS. It might have been years of build up into some reptilian brain reaction, but I'd like to think that Lucas pulled off the whole tone poem thing he'd been aspiring to for a million years.

Haters at least appreciated the Order 66 montage, right? Between the general prettiness of the images and Williams score I think it's one of the best thing Lucas ever put together. I can only understand real hatred coming out of the lead up ruining the moment (though I also enjoyed the 'turn' scene simply because I'm in love with Ian McDiarmid's performance in the prequels).
post #90 of 4308
The prequels nearly work. They are nearly fucking fantastic. I love the core concepts behind General Grevious, that crazy fucking lizard Obi-Wan rides, the arena in Ep2 and even the overarching 'fall of the republic'. It was all the ingredients for a pulpy space opera.

But goddamn that shit doesn't actually work. There's a story to tell here, but I think the storyteller is stumbling too much for it to be a ripping yarn.

And that's where it ends. A pretty good story that was only told well in 2-3 films. On par with the Matrix for proportional quality, IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
which marked the start of Lucas' obsession with showing every takeoff and landing possible
I laughed out loud at this
post #91 of 4308
The prequels should have been about this:

http://boards.theforce.net/the_saga/...979392/p1/?197
post #92 of 4308
This thread is doing a great job of reminding me that star wars fans are the most wretched, mind numbing fuckers on the internet.
post #93 of 4308
Are we still talking about Star Wars? Geez.

I grew up on Star Wars. Not just the movies, but X-Wing vs. Tie Fighter games, comic books, and novels. I've since purged that out of my system, except for the comics (KotoR and Legacy are very good).

As for the prequels, I respect Episode 1 for telling a completely different, almost entirely stand-alone story. Unfortunately it's just not a very good movie.

Episode 2, by comparison, feels like 2 1/2 hours of catch up. I will say this, I LOVE LOVE LOVE Obi-Wan's subplot investigating the assassination attempt and stumbling upon the Clone Trooper factory. It feels like a detective noir story. I could, however, do without the rest of the movie.

I do love Episode 3 still, although I don't feel like I need to watch it again for a long time. It's funny that everything that's important in Ep3 (Anakin and Padme's marriage, Anakin's turn to the dark side, the Clone Troopers) didn't need the explanations that Ep2 struggled to give. The original trilogy wasn't afraid to throw us into the deep end, Episode 1 and 2 suffer from trying to explain everything.
post #94 of 4308
Well, I didn't hate Return of the Jedi before, but SAIRUS' running commentary has certainly made me hate it now. Also life.
post #95 of 4308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post
As for the prequels, I respect Episode 1 for telling a completely different, almost entirely stand-alone story. Unfortunately it's just not a very good movie.

Episode 2, by comparison, feels like 2 1/2 hours of catch up.
It's as if Lucas sat down to write Episode II and thought, "Holy crap, I forgot about the Clone Wars!" and scrambled to get it going.

The prequels' biggest sin was in taking the event Star Wars fans had most been longing to see -- the Clone Wars -- and having it happen almost entirely off-screen. It should have been the backdrop to everything the way the Rebellion was the backdrop in the OT.

And no, I didn't wait almost 30 years to see it done as a cartoon.
post #96 of 4308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Headless Fett View Post
I will always enjoy the Saga, it's been a part of my subconscious since I got an X-Wing for Christmas back in the early 80s.
I got the TIE fighter with the pop-off wings. I had so many good guys instead of bad guys, that they would "steal" the TIE fighter all the time to justify them flying in it. Also had the awesome land speeder with the pop-out wheels where C3PO and R2D2 fit perfectly on the back deck. Luke found it hard to drive with that lightsaber sticking out of his arm, though.
post #97 of 4308
yeah yeah star wars legacy comics are very good how bout that darth talon huh
post #98 of 4308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martianman View Post
I got the TIE fighter with the pop-off wings. I had so many good guys instead of bad guys, that they would "steal" the TIE fighter all the time to justify them flying in it. Also had the awesome land speeder with the pop-out wheels where C3PO and R2D2 fit perfectly on the back deck. Luke found it hard to drive with that lightsaber sticking out of his arm, though.
You poor fool, the best Luke was the Jedi one that came with R2D2. His lightsaber popped out of R2's head .
post #99 of 4308
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAIRUS View Post
Watching jedi right now and man that song was the worst. I'll provide some running commentary.
Seriously why didn't any of you stop him? It's inaction like this that let the Holocaust happen.
post #100 of 4308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post
I wasn't old enough to see Hope in the theater...thank God my dad took me to see Jedi in '83 because I wouldn't be where I am now.
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