The Greatest American Band? - Page 2

Have you considered trying better jokes?

I say Creedence, The Replacements, The Pixies, Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band and The Ramones would probably hit all of the bases for choosing the greatest American band.

I run into an unfortunate amount of people who think Mellencamp is the shit.

Hey pal, I'll have you know I'm a FOUR-YEAR COLLEGE intellectual.


ZZ Top. Interesting; I am going to free-range philosophize in my next post....

This. Sure, they may not be in contention for 'greatest US band', but dismissing Skynryd as a joke is pretty good evidence that you're incapable of participating in a thoughtful, informed discussion about American rock n' roll. Not liking their music is one thing, but to suggest that they weren't a good - hell, occasionally even great - band in their day? Ditto with ZZ Top.

Back to the subject at hand. Since we're clearly talking about greatest American rock n' roll bands, the Stooges are on the short list and, for my money, absolutely wipe the floor with VU.

I was thinking about this, and the deal with the Beatles is that they hit so MANY bases of "great band" - commercial success? In spades. Artistic merit? Certainly in the latter half of their career, if you're skeptical about the initial bubble-gummy part (which most people aren't). Cutural impact? You bet, they had impact outdoing entire musical movements, much less other single bands. And one of the big things for me is that they were in almost constant progression - they had the clout to make The White Album, and they did. Etc etc.

So I was thinking about bands that might hit some or most of the bases - and one MAJOR hurdle I keep hitting is that the artists that progress and stretch their legs, in most cases, don't get big (I am thinking Wilco here; REM would fit nicely as well as being a MUCH larger act). The artists that are cultural/commercial forces of nature, on the other hand, almost seem thrilled to find their niche and hammer away at it (ZZ Top or The Ramones, for example).

Is it a flaw of American-ness that commercial success, which should beget artistic freedom, simply leads in most cases to more of the same?

I don't think they're a "joke" I just think they are, at best, 3rd-tier with the Mellencamps, Aerosmiths, and Segers.

ZZ Top only really found commercial succes in the very late 70's and then into the MTV age. I don't know that their scorching blues rock of the early days sold that much and that stuff is too hot. It says something that Billy Gibbons was one of Hendrix' favorite guitarists. The first five albums are outstanding. That being said this topic is pretty entrenched in rock territory. If you really get down to it there are other bands that bear mention that nobody has thought of. Booker T and The MGs, Parliment Funkadellic, The Bar-Kays, The Impressions, The 13th Floor Elevators, etc. All have a right to steak a claim to this title if you ask me.

REM

I'm not expecting anyone to agree but I believe they deserve to be on this list as much as any other bands that have been mentioned. They started off as indie/pop artists during a time when my beloved hair metal was reigning supreme. They followed that early chapter up with hugely successful (and critically acclaimed) albums in the early 90's before they began the big fade that every 2 decade old band goes through. This band made countless hits spanning both pop and critical praise. I don't know... am I crazy?

I expect in 10 years REM will be a more obvious choice on lists like these, they just don't seem to be getting their due currently.

Fair enough.

Another one for the short list, indisputably - Buddy Holly & The Crickets.

I'm so glad the only people to mention Nirvana were the numbnuts in the comments of that article.

Smashmouth.


Oh shit, I thought this was the worst American band thread.

Although Chavez has already brought them up, I'm going to nominate The Allman Brothers Band as greatest american band. If we're comparing ABB to The Beatles in terms of popularity and hitmaking, ABB probably don't make the cut. It was live that ABB provided the greatest experience, their mix of blues, jazz, country and the added element of jamming put them ahead of the pack in this sense. I just think they were the greatest touring unit america has ever produced and singularly unique in this respect.

No, I'm really surprised it took this long to mention REM.

Pretty great bands all, but are any of them really qualified to be named 'Greatest American Band'? I enjoy 'em as much as anyone, but I think you'd be hard pressed to argue that the quality of the 13th Floor Elevators discography in any way rivals CCR's, or the Beach Boys, or Prince, or the Ramones, or any number of others.

Well, America agrees with you according to USA Today.

Not saying much looking at some of the other bands that made the list, but there it is.

Vindicated by a newspaper that doesn't work on the weekend. Suck it, non-believers.


Actually, that article makes my soul hurt. America has abysmal taste.

Did you read Kurt's diaries too?

Are The Stooges the Stones to Velvet's Beatles?

Could a case be made for The Temptations? Buffalo Springfield?

Love the mention of Sly & the Family Stone, The Byrds, and the Ramones.

Can't believe Nathan nominated the Beasties. If RUN D.M.C. is Elvis, I'd go Public Enemy, Tribe Called Quest, De La Soul or Outkast for the Beatles. A shame N.W.A broke up early, cuz Cube and Easy had a Lennon/McCartney thing going (persona wise at least). Mc Ren was their Harrison. (The D.O.C.=Stu Sutcliffe and Arabian Prince=Pete Best?)

http://chud.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=2719535

I could make the argument for each. I'd give ample consideration to The New York Dolls as the greatest American band and they only recorded 2 studio albums in their prime. The Stooges only 3, The 'Mats 8 and that's if you count Don't Tell A Soul and All Shook Down. In fact, to my ears, the only advantage the bands you mention have over mine discography wise is length and you be hard pressed to find a bigger fan of each than I. Really is every Creedence or Ramones record a "must have?" Does your record collection suffer if you don't own Mardi Gras or Acid Eaters? But if you don't have those four Elevators records your collection is at best suspect.

Since they've yet to be mentioned: Sonic Youth. Forget American bands, they're up there with the greatest period.

Yeah, that bastion of American greatness, Fleetwood Mac....well, aside from the fact that it was founded in England, by 2 Englishmen, and 3/5 of the "classic" lineup were British.

It kind of seems that way, but it doesn't logically follow that it's on the listener end. American audiences ate up the Beatles, American audiences are no less inclined than British audiences to follow Radiohead through their evolution, and British audiences seem just as likely as American audiences to go for those niche-hammerers when it comes to pop music (after all, it's Uncut, not Pitchfork, with two White Stripes albums in their top 20 of the 00s).

Then again, I don't quite follow the logic that the Ramones are a much bigger cultural/commercial force of nature than R.E.M. The Ramones might have more cred in certain circles, but R.E.M. is hugely influential and have certainly sold better. Or maybe I'm reading you incorrectly there?

Unfortunately, I find myself disagreeing with Timothy about R.E.M. being perceived as being more important in 10 years. They were definitely perceived as being more important than they are now 10 years ago, and there's no indication that the trend is going to turn around. They didn't do any favors to their legacy with Up, Reveal, and Around the Sun, and I'm not even sure that Accelerate is enough to get them back on track.

That said, with albums as good and disparate as Murmur, Life's Rich Pageant, Out of Time, and Automatic for the People (among plenty of other greats) in their catalog, they'd probably make a pretty good "American Beatles," especially since their grasp of hooks translates across styles in a similar way. And most of their output as a three piece certainly demonstrates how crucial the four personalities were to the sound.

Important, yeah. Most Beatles-like or greatest ever? Neither. They don't have the popularity, influence, or variety for Beatles status, and they have too many mediocre and inaccessible albums that are pretty much fans-only affairs to qualify for greatest ever.

What about the Temps?

They had the hits, and two distinct creative periods. A noticeable evolution in the sound.

Emmylou Harris & the Hot Band? Creative and powerful, but too niche?

Honourable mention to The Flaming Lips. Not the best but damn fucking good.

Very true. Again, Wilco is a great example of an American band that is relentlessly self-improving (or at times going the other way), but they seem to be stuck as "niche" act, more or less. While Radiohead plays amphitheaters.

It was probably poorly worded; I think R.E.M. IS influential and certainly has trumps the Ramones in sales.

But in a strictly musical sense, I'm inclined to think that the Ramones status as punk progenitors probably has more influence than R.E.M.'s jangle-pop.

R.E.M.'s influence, to me, is more due to their independent ethos than any particularly lasting musical contribution.


Depending on how you want to qualify the Beatles....well, post-Beatles, McCartney DID have Wings, right?

I think one of the things in R.E.M.'s favor is that while they were perhaps not the innovators some were, their success DID indicate that you didn't have to sell out or dumb yourself down to get big, you could do it on your own, without moving to NY or LA. I think that's very important. The fact that they were unafraid to take stylistic risks is big in their favor as well.

I dunno about the others, but just about everyone I know loves LS without irony or doesn't like them for a specific reason. Very little blowing off of Skynyrd.

I was thinking of suggesting Bob Wills & Texas Playboys. But the best equivalent is the Carter Family. Something like a phenomenon, their arrangements were genius, and the playing revolutionary. I believe the first nationwide pop stars as well.

If you'll let me be a douchebag, I'll throw in Duke Ellington & His Orchestra for the intense swing that would later lead to jump blues bands like Louis Jordan & His Orchestra, which is probably one of the granddaddies of rock 'n' roll.

You would. But you're wrong -- Ellington is too formal, not raw enough, for rock. He's definitely one of the greatest musicians that America's produced, but I would say Count Basie and Benny Goodman were a bigger influence on swing than Ellington (whose descendants are Glen Miller).

The more I think about it, Smokey Robinson & the Miracles would be a better fit than the Temptations. They had the songwriting chops.

I'm reading a book (called oddly enough How the Beatles Destroyed Rock'n'Rol ) and right now they're smack-dab in the swing era.

Paul Whiteman was arguably THE most influential guy as far as the mainstreaming of jazz; Benny Goodman was the guy who popularized "hot" jazz.

If we want to choose the "Greatest American Band" in a more negative manner, may I suggest KISS.

Think about it:

1) Big, dumb and loud.
2) Completely unoriginal music.
3) A lowest common denominator commercial aspect that not even the sharpest satirist could come up with.

I think that pretty much sums up America.

Boyz II Men

I don't know which part offends me more, the fact that I'm an American, the fact that I sort of like KISS or the fact that everything you said is so true.

NOTE: CHAVEZ, didn't realize you said REM first... good call.

NOTE 2: Off subject, but fuck it. Its music; NOFX has been around for over 25 years and has produced the bulk of their best music and lyrics in the last 10... has any other band accomplished such a feat?

Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers hasn't been mentioned yet?

I should have said Jodeci!

If you try to answer the question as an amalgam of Greatest American Band and The American Beatles, that whittles away alot. Pearl Jam, Tom Petty are more derivative than inivative and unique. The New York Dolls? A minor act that was basically a smarter Kiss.

My 10:
1. The Carter Family
2. The Ramones
3. Velvet Underground
4. CCR
5. The Beach Boys
6. R.E.M.
7. Sly & The Family Stone
8. The Byrds
9. Smokey Robinson & The Miracles
10. Outkast

The Allman Brothers and The Stooges would be at the top if the question just referred to "Greatest American Band". ZZ Top and Skynyrd as well. (Wilco? The Replacements? Husker Du? Pixies? Brilliant at what they do, but limited in either impact or scope)

More I think about it, the case for The Beastie Boys makes sense.

I'm MORE than willing to sit on an island alone with a bottle of Makers Mark but my vote without a doubt goes to the R-A-M-O-N-E-S...RAMONES!

I forgot about the "Beatles-like" part of the discussion. And they aren't my pick for THE greatest American band (though I don't know who is, to be honest). But their sheer longevity and impressive catalogue shoots them at the near-top of my list for "greatest". Their track record isn't spotless, but what band that's been around for nearly 30 years has a flawless discography?

Hypothetically-speaking, if The Beatles had been recording for 30 years, something tells me The Stones' latter day works would be looking better in retrospect. But I suppose that's not a fair perspective. What The Beatles achieved in such a short time span has been unsurpassed by any recording artist.

My top 10 would probably include Talking Heads, R.E.M., Prince & The Revolution, and Van Halen (DLR-era, of course).

What Fat Elvis said - Pearl Jam category, A Great American Band but not THE Great American Band.

And TimQ - I just kinda dropped it in passing, but I'm kinda surprised I was the first one to mention them. Apparently DaveB's assessment of their dropping cachet is dead on, since about 5 years ago R.E.M. would've been one of the first 3-4 bands mentioned.

What really blows my mind when I think about the Beatles is how quickly they evolved and how enormously fast culture changed in general during that most turbulent decade. For example, it was only five years, five!, between the time that people were complaining about the suggestiveness of a song called 'I Wanna Hold Your Hand,' and the release of a John Lennon album with him and Yoko Ono completely full-frontal naked on the cover. That's when I fully appreciated how much of a shock to the system the 60s really were, and I think the lightning-speed evolution of the Beatles really encapsulates this. This, more than anything else, I think is going to be the hardest part for any other band in history to live up to.

In terms of quick evolutions (and certainly not quite as quick), only Radiohead, another English band, really comes to mind. Four years from Pablo Honey to OK Computer (or three from OK Computer to Kid A) may not be "I Wanna Hold Your Hand" to full-frontal John and Yoko, but it's pretty good.

Don't have much to add, but I'll throw in my pick, and my very specific reasoning: CCR.

I know they don't have the scope of the Beatles, and personally I'd put the E-Street Band ahead of them, but I've always personally held to ONE standard of judgment when it comes to a fellow American and their worth via taste in music:

All taste is subjective, especially when it comes to music, but...if you don't Credence Clearwater Revival, then get the fuck out of my country.

I am a huge Creedence fan, but I subscribe the same theory to Skynrd and ZZ Top.

Fact: Tom Petty is an underrated songwriter who has not written a bad song.

Fact: There are few better bands to listen to while drinking beer around a bonfire than than KISS.

Fact: The New York Dolls ability and influnce is far vaster than anybody gives them credit for.

Fact: I am ashamed of myself for not thinking of X for this conversation until now.

Thing with that theory is, if yours were to be followed a good amount of Americans would have to make an Exodus (not personally dismissing either of those bands myself though I'm not too big on 'em). Part of the reason I went with Credence is because I've never, ever met anyone who likes rock and doesn't like them.

Fuck 'em. Who needs 'em. Get the fuck out.

"Jammin' Me" comes to mind.

If that's the worst you can come up with you fail. That tune has a great hook and some tongue-in-cheek lyric play. At least it ain't the Superbowl shuffle or Ghostbusters.

ETA: Tom Petty's worst is better than most everybody's best.

I like CCR, but a little goes a long way. Then again, I kind of feel the same way about the Ramones, Sly and the Family Stone, and a bunch of other bands worthy of mention in this thread. There's just not enough variety for me to want to listen to them for hours on end (and I mean really listen, not just have them on in the background while I'm concentrating on something else). On the other hand, I'll gladly spend hours with Springsteen, the Replacements, Pearl Jam, R.E.M., and Wilco (or to go English for a moment, the Beatles, Radiohead, Zeppelin, the Who), because they each have so many different flavors.

Scope is a big factor for me, but it's possible I suffer from some kind of musical attention deficit disorder. When people (wife included) say they literally haven't listened to anything but a single album for days, I can't relate.

It occurs to me that the Jimi Hendrix Experience could technically be disqualified from both greatest American band and greatest British band lists, which probably demonstrates some intrinsic flaw in making national distinctions. On the other hand, they're probably shoe-ins for "greatest international band" (although I suppose there's the Police and Neil Young and Crazy Horse to consider, with CSN&Y, Can, Nick Cave & the Bad Seeds, and a few others getting some support, as well).

Would that change or reinforce my opinion?

I rescind my vote for Pearl Jam and throw my support behind USA for Africa as the greatest American band of all time.

ETA: Nevermind, I forgot Dan Akroyd was from Canada.