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"Pray for Obama: Psalm 109:8" - Page 2

post #51 of 187
11/20/09 at 3:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Bean View Post
Can you imagine how much "Home Fire Insurance" companies would gouge prices?
"You lit candles during sex. That will be an across-the-board 15% increase in your monthly bill."
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post #52 of 187
11/20/09 at 3:57pm
Imagine their advertising!
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post #53 of 187
11/20/09 at 4:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parker View Post
We can! See: Election Night, 2008.



Some of us are!

I bet you sang a different tune election night 2004. And you will when a Republican takes office again and starts screwing everyone to further the radical right's agenda.
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post #54 of 187
11/20/09 at 4:08pm
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post #55 of 187
11/20/09 at 4:10pm
I just can't understand how you all can unquestioningly accept what the government is doing. Forget that it's Obama for a second. If it were anyone else, perhaps less charismatic, what would you think? What if it was a white guy, would it still be okay then? White guys have fucked us for the past few presidencies and EVERYONE cried "Foul!" A black guy does it and everyone accepts it.

On the other comment: Government SHOULD provide police, firefighters, military protection and VERY FEW other things. They should NOT have their fingers in our daily lives. The federal government should be a relatively weak entity accountable to it's people. That accountability is quickly slipping away. When you let the government decide what kind of health care they think you need, what do you think they will do with that power? Probably do the same thing with ANY power they get and abuse it. The individual states are supposed to have more power over their own governing than the federal government.

@Sean Blackwell: About the "little snowflakes" comment, that's sounds like a stab at my race, assuming I'm white. What difference does my ethnicity make in any of this?
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post #56 of 187
11/20/09 at 4:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bennythejew View Post
I bet you sang a different tune election night 2004. And you will when a Republican takes office again and starts screwing everyone to further the radical right's agenda.
You're right. I did sing a different tune. Fuck it, you convinced me. Democracy sucks. Lets try something else.

Hey, maybe socialism!
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post #57 of 187
11/20/09 at 4:12pm
Ah, and now the racism rears its head. Thanks for playing, douchebag. Hope your son comes home gay. And married to a black guy.
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post #58 of 187
11/20/09 at 4:17pm
Oh my. This guy is shaking my beliefs to their foundation.

Obama...white?

SHIT.

SHIT, NO!

WHAT HAVE WE DONE, GUYS? WHAT HAVE WE DONE?
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post #59 of 187
11/20/09 at 4:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bennythejew View Post
I just can't understand how you all can unquestioningly accept what the government is doing. Forget that it's Obama for a second. If it were anyone else, perhaps less charismatic, what would you think? What if it was a white guy, would it still be okay then? White guys have fucked us for the past few presidencies and EVERYONE cried "Foul!" A black guy does it and everyone accepts it.
Quoted before the racist changes it.
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post #60 of 187
11/20/09 at 4:21pm
Fun fact - Obama is white.
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post #61 of 187
11/20/09 at 4:21pm
Thread Starter 
Seems like the people crying "Foul!" at Obama were just fine with the fucking Bush was giving us.
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post #62 of 187
11/20/09 at 4:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan "Nordling" Cerny View Post
Ah, and now the racism rears its head. Thanks for playing, douchebag. Hope your son comes home gay. And married to a black guy.
I have a gay uncle, fella. And sorry to disappoint you, but I love him.

I just don't understand you people. I can accept that you don't agree with me, but blind acceptance of what these people are doing?
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post #63 of 187
11/20/09 at 4:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bennythejew View Post
@Sean Blackwell: About the "little snowflakes" comment, that's sounds like a stab at my race, assuming I'm white. What difference does my ethnicity make in any of this?
That is a great question, Benny. What does race have to do with anything? Right? Right?
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post #64 of 187
11/20/09 at 4:24pm
Benny, I feel sorry for you and people like you. Imagine you're in a room with a two-sided mirror. You can't see the people on the other side of the mirror, just those in the room with you. You are being tricked into thinking that the air in the room is being hogged by the people in the room with you, not disproportionally pumped out by the people outside of it. I just wish you and people like you had even an inkling of the massive snow job that has been perpetrated on you.

You can and no doubt will go on believing the things you believe, and as long as that happens, you'll always be pitching in and putting your elbow grease behind people to whom you're no more than a maggot. The reason you hate the villains you hate is because they're used to distract you from the villains who are really hurting you and your family, who also happen to be the same people you're working for by spreading their propaganda so they can continue hurting you and your family without impediments.

I would normally say live and let live, let the ignorant and manipulated stay ignorant and manipulated, but we're all on this ship together, and if it goes down because the big corporations successfully turn it into Pinochet's Chile or Zimbabwe, then people like you will be the ones to blame.
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post #65 of 187
11/20/09 at 4:25pm
You're too stupid to have read most of these threads talking about everything political under the sun, so you don't understand that there's no blind acceptance going on anywhere in this forum.

Also, I'm glad you're not denying your racism. Most of you teabaggers do. So, kudos.
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post #66 of 187
11/20/09 at 4:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bennythejew View Post
I have a gay uncle, fella. And sorry to disappoint you, but I love him.

I just don't understand you people. I can accept that you don't agree with me, but blind acceptance of what these people are doing?
Who said we're blindly accepting what the government is doing? (sorry, but I'm not going to use your "these people" parlance) We're just not willing to join you on the crazy train is all.
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post #67 of 187
11/20/09 at 4:25pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bennythejew View Post
I just don't understand you people.
"You people"?!? Racist!
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post #68 of 187
11/20/09 at 4:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bennythejew View Post
I just don't understand you people. I can accept that you don't agree with me, but blind acceptance of what these people are doing?
"Blind acceptance" is something you have added in. If you knew us or knew anything about this forum, you'd know that none of us accepts everything government is doing. But by and large we recognize that it's ours to shape, not some big enemy that has to be destroyed.
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post #69 of 187
11/20/09 at 4:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
Seems like the people crying "Foul!" at Obama were just fine with the fucking Bush was giving us.
Yes, a lot of them were, and now they'll whine until another jack-ass like Bush gets into office. What they don't realize is Bush is still in office, he just changed colors. Black, white, purple, whatever. Blindly trusting government is dangerous. Look at the Nazis, they blindly trusted Hitler. The Soviets blindly trusted Lenin and Stalin. The North Koreans trusted Kim Il-Sung, with the Venezuelans it's Chavez. I can't believe you guys disagree that the government should be held accountable by it's people for it's actions or that the government should decide how the people should spend their own earnings.
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post #70 of 187
11/20/09 at 4:28pm
Shit, I was just about to report this guy tot he secret Obama Watchdog society. Then he has to play the 'gay uncle' card. Guess his house won't be raided tonight after all...
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post #71 of 187
11/20/09 at 4:29pm
Godwin's Law invoked!
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post #72 of 187
11/20/09 at 4:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bennythejew View Post
I can't believe you guys disagree that the government should be held accountable by it's people for it's actions.
Holy fuck, who is disagreeing with this? Nobody's saying this, we're just saying that the "actions" that you want the government held accountable for are patently retarded and seem to be pretty much cherry-picked with little to no reasoning besides "I love money. God, I love money".
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post #73 of 187
11/20/09 at 4:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan "Nordling" Cerny View Post
You're too stupid to have read most of these threads talking about everything political under the sun, so you don't understand that there's no blind acceptance going on anywhere in this forum.
Aw c'mon, Alan. You know all the political topics that have dozens and dozens of pages with thousands and thousands of replies are filled with nothing but:

"I like Obama!"

"Hey, me too!"

"Gee, Obama sure is swell!"

"I blindly accept all his policies!"

"ME TOO!"

"Thank God he's a black fella!"

"I agree!"
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post #74 of 187
11/20/09 at 4:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake View Post
Holy fuck, who is disagreeing with this? Nobody's saying this, we're just saying that the "actions" that you want the government held accountable for are patently retarded and seem to be pretty much cherry-picked with little to no reasoning besides "I love money. God, I love money".
Is it wrong for someone to love money? If so, is that for you or me to decide? If it is, is it okay for me to take that person's money without earning it?
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post #75 of 187
11/20/09 at 4:36pm
Thread Starter 
Wait -- bennythejew has been a member since March of 2006, and THIS is what finally gets him to post? So the government did NOTHING wrong for three and a half years, but trying to see to it that its citizens aren't dying from lack of health insurance, THAT'S what finally moves you to speak up?

Yeah, get bent.
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post #76 of 187
11/20/09 at 4:37pm
I think Benny is just killing time until his next Ayn Rand Book Club meeting.
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post #77 of 187
11/20/09 at 4:38pm
I may not agree with pretty much anything that benny has said, but I do think that his underlying point about accountability is one that's worth paying attention to, and not dismissing out of hand.

Accountability is something that I desperately wanted (and still want) from the Bush administration. Accountability to the people is something precious, and benny isn't wrong to be pointing out that fact.

He and I may disagree about the threat that Obama's 'socialism' presents to the country, but we don't disagree about the value of accountability or about limits on Executive power. I voted for Obama, and I don't regret my decision in the slightest, but I'm rational and independent enough to recognize that - when it comes to some of the issues that are most important to me as a citizen - Obama has largely continued the same policies as the Bush admin.

Yes, he's promised to shut down Guantanamo - but he hasn't. Yes, he's promised to end 'Don't Ask Don't Tell' - but he hasn't. Yes, he's promised to bring accountability back to the halls of government but his actions (as illustrated, angrily and lucidly, by Glenn Greenwald) have so far not backed that promise up.

Anger at the government is not a partisan issue - has never truly been a partisan issue - and it strikes me that in order to fix ANYTHING, liberals and conservative citizens are going to need to start putting away their knives and start talking to one another as human beings about their real concerns. In order to do that, we're going to need to stop ogling every crazy-ass person that decides to flaunt their irrational hatred, and start focusing in on the actual difficulties we continue to face as citizens. In short, we need to be adults about all of this, and stop rewarding the poop-flinging kids in the corner with our attention.

Okay. Rant over.
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post #78 of 187
11/20/09 at 4:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bennythejew View Post
Is it wrong for someone to love money?
Actually, according to Jesus, yeah.
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post #79 of 187
11/20/09 at 4:41pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse Custer View Post
Yes, he's promised to shut down Guantanamo - but he hasn't. Yes, he's promised to end 'Don't Ask Don't Tell' - but he hasn't. Yes, he's promised to bring accountability back to the halls of government but his actions (as illustrated, angrily and lucidly, by Glenn Greenwald) have so far not backed that promise up.
Can he at least have the full four years of his term before we say he hasn't done what he said he would? It's been ten months.
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post #80 of 187
11/20/09 at 4:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse Custer View Post
I may not agree with pretty much anything that benny has said, but I do think that his underlying point about accountability is one that's worth paying attention to, and not dismissing out of hand.

Accountability is something that I desperately wanted (and still want) from the Bush administration. Accountability to the people is something precious, and benny isn't wrong to be pointing out that fact.

He and I may disagree about the threat that Obama's 'socialism' presents to the country, but we don't disagree about the value of accountability or about limits on Executive power. I voted for Obama, and I don't regret my decision in the slightest, but I'm rational and independent enough to recognize that - when it comes to some of the issues that are most important to me as a citizen - Obama has largely continued the same policies as the Bush admin.

Yes, he's promised to shut down Guantanamo - but he hasn't. Yes, he's promised to end 'Don't Ask Don't Tell' - but he hasn't. Yes, he's promised to bring accountability back to the halls of government but his actions (as illustrated, angrily and lucidly, by Glenn Greenwald) have so far not backed that promise up.

Anger at the government is not a partisan issue - has never truly been a partisan issue - and it strikes me that in order to fix ANYTHING, liberals and conservative citizens are going to need to start putting away their knives and start talking to one another as human beings about their real concerns. In order to do that, we're going to need to stop ogling every crazy-ass person that decides to flaunt their irrational hatred, and start focusing in on the actual difficulties we continue to face as citizens. In short, we need to be adults about all of this, and stop rewarding the poop-flinging kids in the corner with our attention.

Okay. Rant over.
I absolutely agree with this, but again I'm trying to find the parts in this thread where people have explicitly stated that government (and, since he's the President now, Obama) should not be held accountable, which he previously claimed people were doing.
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post #81 of 187
11/20/09 at 4:44pm
I'm not going to get into the subject of threats to The President. It's clear enough that's exactly what this is.


What I will get into is how unChristian it is to pray for harm to come to others.

Oh, wait, since that awful stuff is in the bible (along with slavery and stoning people for planting two different crops together) I guess maybe Christianity is pretty crummy. Good job exposing your religion as hateful and barbaric, Tea Baggers! That sure showed Obama....?

"WWJD"?

Probably not endorse a book that has prayers for harm to come to your enemies children.
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post #82 of 187
11/20/09 at 4:46pm
Alright, alright. I'll agree to disagree with you guys. You all have made some good points about me trying to convince you guys about things you don't agree with. I do believe what I am saying, if you think I'm racist...okay. But, I will agree with you all that, in my passionate defense of my thoughts, I basically said, "you are wrong, and I am right." While it is my right to say that, it's not right to say that and truth be told, it's not correct, either..
I DO believe in helping others, but I want to decide who receives my help. I guess, looking at it objectively, good people DO get my help, but I have to take the good along with the bad.
Look, I want Obama's presidency to be the best presidency yet, and the one to succeed him I want to be better and so on and so on. But for the past few presidencies, the government seems to do nothing but fuck us and I don't see these people changing that.
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post #83 of 187
11/20/09 at 4:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
Can he at least have the full four years of his term before we say he hasn't done what he said he would? It's been ten months.
I'm not saying that he won't do these things - just that he hasn't.

He shows no sign of reversing the trend of increased Executive Power that Bush began with his tenure. Anyone who complained about Bush's abuses, and who glosses over these facts, isn't playing fair with their arguments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake View Post
I absolutely agree with this, but again I'm trying to find the parts in this thread where people have explicitly stated that government (and, since he's the President now, Obama) should not be held accountable, which he previously claimed people were doing.
That's totally fair, and I mean no disrespect to anyone in the thread, but the fact that he's still invoking the same 'state secrets' privilege discussed in the link above without much commentary from anyone is, to my eyes, giving him a pass on the issue - an issue that I cared deeply about when Bush was in office, and which I still care deeply about. That doesn't mean benny's right about turning us into a 'socialist nation,' but it does signify to me the difference in how democrats/liberals are viewing Obama's abuses vs. Bush's.
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post #84 of 187
11/20/09 at 4:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bennythejew View Post

@Sean Blackwell: About the "little snowflakes" comment, that's sounds like a stab at my race, assuming I'm white. What difference does my ethnicity make in any of this?
It wasn't a jab at race, cowboy. "Little snowflakes" is a term people use for kids, because they're all different and special. But thanks for trying to shine the race spotlight on me to get out from under it yourself. Almost worked.

Honky.
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post #85 of 187
11/20/09 at 4:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse Custer View Post
I'm not saying that he won't do these things - just that he hasn't.

He shows no sign of reversing the trend of increased Executice Power that Bush began with his tenure. Anyone who complained about Bush's abuses, and who glosses over these facts, isn't playing fair with their arguments.
The problem is that Bush combined an Imperial executive branch with a rubber stamp congress. By comparison the Dems now are basically trying to destroy Obama's legislative agenda. I don't really mind him having powers without their oversight at this moment in time (though I'd preferred they were rolled back before he leaves office)
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post #86 of 187
11/20/09 at 4:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Princess Kate View Post
I don't really mind him having powers without their oversight at this moment in time (though I'd preferred they were rolled back before he leaves office)
Awesome.
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post #87 of 187
11/20/09 at 4:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse Custer View Post

He shows no sign of reversing the trend of increased Executice Power that Bush began with his tenure. Anyone who complained about Bush's abuses, and who glosses over these facts, isn't playing fair with their arguments.
Jesse, every time I click on that link I can't read it. Totally weird. I just see this big picture of Obama reaching out to give me a hug. Huh. Oh well, must not be much of anything at all.

OBAMA RULEZ!
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post #88 of 187
11/20/09 at 4:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Princess Kate View Post
I don't really mind him having powers without their oversight at this moment in time (though I'd preferred they were rolled back before he leaves office)
Stop.
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post #89 of 187
11/20/09 at 4:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Princess Kate View Post
The problem is that Bush combined an Imperial executive branch with a rubber stamp congress. By comparison the Dems now are basically trying to destroy Obama's legislative agenda. I don't really mind him having powers without their oversight at this moment in time (though I'd preferred they were rolled back before he leaves office)
Kate, what do you think the realistic chances of that happening are?

You're saying that unprecedented secrecy at the Executive level is okay, so long as 'your guy' is running things. What, exactly, is the political/philosophical difference between a Bush supporter who champions unlimited Executive power, and an Obama supporter who does the same?

ETA: You guys are fast.

ETA II:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parker View Post
Jesse, every time I click on that link I can't read it. Totally weird. I just see this big picture of Obama reaching out to give me a hug. Huh. Oh well, must not be much of anything at all.

OBAMA RULEZ!
Heh.
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post #90 of 187
11/20/09 at 4:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parker View Post
Stop.
No, dude. She needs to flesh this out. I want to see where it goes (Only good places, I'll bet).

ETA:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse Custer View Post

ETA: You guys are fast.
Like a fat ninja.
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post #91 of 187
11/20/09 at 5:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Blackwell View Post
It wasn't a jab at race, cowboy. "Little snowflakes" is a term people use for kids, because they're all different and special. But thanks for trying to shine the race spotlight on me to get out from under it yourself. Almost worked.

Honky.
Again: Alright, alright. I got carried away. When white kids were called "snowflake" by some of the black kids in my school, it most certainly was used in racial context, just like when black kids who hung out with white kids were called "Uncle Toms."

I am obviously extremely opinionated, to the point that I sometimes won't accept others' views. I started with the intent of having an intelligent political discussion, but instead, went off on a tirade and let my temper get the best of me.

So, I sincerely apologize for, in more subtle terms, calling you a racist, guy.
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post #92 of 187
11/20/09 at 5:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bennythejew View Post

So, I sincerely apologize for, in more subtle terms, calling you a racist, guy.
No problem.


Cracker.
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post #93 of 187
11/20/09 at 5:02pm
See, guys...it's all good. Benny went to an integrated school. He's cool.
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post #94 of 187
11/20/09 at 5:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bennythejew View Post
Look, I want Obama's presidency to be the best presidency yet, and the one to succeed him I want to be better and so on and so on. But for the past few presidencies, the government seems to do nothing but fuck us and I don't see these people changing that.
Benny, if that's really what you feel, you need to start expending your efforts protesting for campaign finance reform -- i.e. no more corporate bribes for elections and no more lobbyist bribes to control politicians, and no more revolving door between representatives of the people and million dollar jobs. You also need to protest the monopolization of business in the US, particularly in the banking and media sectors and, of course, the energy sector and military industrial complex. These monopolies are buying and controlling our elected officials quite legally. They can also virtually destroy anyone who doesn't play ball thanks to their corporate ownership of the media.
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post #95 of 187
11/20/09 at 5:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Blackwell View Post
Awesome.
FYI, I fully understand the troubling issues of an executive branch without oversight. With that said, listening to Ben Nelson and Joe Lieberman on Hard Ball every night makes that seem like less of a big deal at this moment, as far as I'm concerned. You could cut them out of the decision making process and it would not bother me a bit
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post #96 of 187
11/20/09 at 5:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Blackwell View Post
No problem.


Cracker.
Jiggaboo
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post #97 of 187
11/20/09 at 5:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bennythejew View Post
Alright, alright. I'll agree to disagree with you guys. You all have made some good points about me trying to convince you guys about things you don't agree with. I do believe what I am saying, if you think I'm racist...okay. But, I will agree with you all that, in my passionate defense of my thoughts, I basically said, "you are wrong, and I am right." While it is my right to say that, it's not right to say that and truth be told, it's not correct, either..
I DO believe in helping others, but I want to decide who receives my help. I guess, looking at it objectively, good people DO get my help, but I have to take the good along with the bad.
Look, I want Obama's presidency to be the best presidency yet, and the one to succeed him I want to be better and so on and so on. But for the past few presidencies, the government seems to do nothing but fuck us and I don't see these people changing that.
I know you're trying, in a backhanded way, to end this and make a peace offering, but I can't your last sentence go.

"these people" are US. The people who work in government are not some unknowable alien entities, they're just people. Furthermore, they're, y'know, elected by us (or, to pick nits, in some cases appointed by the people we elect).

As yt tirelessly points out, at least with government, we have avenues of recourse. The ballot, protest, etc. The disconnect you feel when reading this forum is from the fact that most of us HAVE thought through the implications of various forms of governance, and the majority of us wouldn't want to live in your Randian Libertopia anymore than you'd want to live in, say, the Netherlands.

But millions of people live in the socialist democracies of Europe, and are happy (in many cases, happier), just as free (in some areas, freer), and in no way oppressed. What, exactly, is it about such a way of life that threatens you?

Finally, regarding money and its pursuit: You are of course free to feel the way you do. But it might behoove you to take a step back and think about WHY you think the pursuit of wealth is desirable, necessary, or good? Think deeply about the ephemeral, absurd, illusory, man-made notion of money in the first place. Here's a little something on that subject: http://www.openthefuture.com/2009/10...s_fantasy.html

Quote:
I start with the observation that all money is fantasy. I laugh/sigh when I see "gold bugs" going on and on about how money should be tied to gold, because gold has "real value." The only intrinsic value that gold has relates to how we can use it (in electronics, mostly, or as meal garnish); its utility as money is just as imaginary, just as "fiat," as post-Bretton Woods currency. It's a mutually-agreed upon fantasy. A "consensual hallucination," to steal from Gibson.
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post #98 of 187
11/20/09 at 5:08pm
Quote:

Kate, what do you think the realistic chances of that happening are?

You're saying that unprecedented secrecy at the Executive level is okay, so long as 'your guy' is running things. What, exactly, is the political/philosophical difference between a Bush supporter who champions unlimited Executive power, and an Obama supporter who does the same?
Good points, all. The problem is that issues like global warming are at a tipping point, and health care is a human right. So, people standing in the way of fixing those issues do not get any sympathy from me. I know that an unchecked executive is a danger. I just happen to feel that at this moment in time, dithering on climate change is a greater danger


PS I'd also get rid of the senate, frankly. I do not see that it has any logical purpose given the current size of our nation. I am an American History student and still feel this way, knowing full well the arguments for it's creation.
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post #99 of 187
11/20/09 at 5:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bennythejew View Post
Jiggaboo
I'm white.

Your comments are both racist and ignorant.

And Kate, "cutting them out of the decision-making process" is exactly what the last administration did that got your Massapanties firmly wedged in your backside.
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post #100 of 187
11/20/09 at 5:09pm
I think it's important to keep in mind that the people who believe these things about Obama (that want him to be a one term president, have no grandchildren, and for his wife to be a widow), also believe he literally quadrupled the federal debt in less than ten months.
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