The President's Address on Afghanistan - West Point- 12/1/2009

This is it..

The big announcement. I am still hoping he's punking the military and McCrystal, and is secretly planning to announce a withdrawl.

(I'd be worried they'd set bad things in motion, frankly, if he didn't give them the war they clearly want. This is why I'd assume he'd use misdirection with regards to his plans up untill the last possible moment)


With that said, I'm still pumped for any prime time programming from the Commander in Cheif.


Anyway, I'm starting this thread as a place to discuss the speech and the policy implications from whatever he happens to announce

I don't think that is an unrealistic fear given the past 100 years of American history.

They would be McCrystal, and the MIC. Arm Chair (Read: McCrystal) warriors who want an entire theater of operations to play with, so they can live out their Patton fantasies. And the rich bastards who profit off it.

I wasn't speaking about private contractors. I'm talking about the people who build the jets, bombs and humvees.

Plus.. the contractors are too insane and unreliable for McCrystal to use them in any nefarious plans, he'd go with real professionals

2 Hours 14 Minutes to go


I'm going out to the store in just a few minutes to pick up some HONEST TEA (the president's favorite kind of bottled tea) for luck

Just a few minutes away now...
I'm hoping The President will address the historical parallels between our current situation and the war Alexander fought.

For the recortd:

I'm against this war. I'm for this President. If he ends it now, it might destroy him politically. Is it better to fight for a lost cause for a while so he can be able make improvements on the domestic front that will benifit America in the long run? I don't know. Maybe. Maybe not

Yes, but we did get the Great Society. I mean, he really did more to change America than anyone since Lincoln (perhaps Roosevelt, I'm not sure).

I am not blindly loyal. I'll return here to offer a more in depth reaction to the speech, but basically Obama seemed to be saying they needed time to do some secret CIA stuff, and give away a bunch of food and bribe money in order to give Pakistan time to secure itself. Get the Afghan situation under control, kill a bunch of specific people, so the Pakistan situation can be cleaned up. Reading between the lines, that's what I got out of it anyway.

I'm willing to give him three years. Listening to him, I think he must really believe there is a reason for us to be there. This is the same benifit of the doubt I gave Bush up untill about 6/27/2003. Now, I don't believe that Al Queda having a base is a big deal. As Bill Maher says, who cares if they have the monkey bars? (Referencing that stock footage of the terrorists on the monkey bars). We can blow that stuff up with drones. Or just spy on them. I think there must be some sort of specific unmetioned threat. Either in terms of regional destablization, or Pakistan's nukes, something to do with oil. So I have to think he has some good reason he just isn't talking about.


We basically have two wars, one with the US army in Afghanistan, and like Rachel Maddow just said a few moments ago, one with the CIA in the 'border region'. I think this has more to do with the later than the former.

This was not a speech designed to get me emotional and weepy and so swept up in the momen that I'd support anything. This was a calm rational point by point speech, and I'll take him at his word untill I have reason to believe he is misleading me.



He is a thoughtful, intelligent and well read man. He has never lied on anything that I'm aware of. I mean, there are things he has done that people dislike. There are things he has not done that people are pissed off about. But he has not ever lied like Bush. What Bush did was basically criminal and he frequently and flagrantly lied to the very people who put in him in office to serve the nation*. The President is an employee of the people, and as far as anyone is able to tell, Obama has been an honest and dedicated one. I will give him the respect his office entitles him to and my support untill I have a good reason to support someone else.

*
(Oh, wait, he was installed by a judicial coup the first time around, never mind)

PS If the war were to drag on, would the chances of a new Alexander III of Macedon movie increase or decrease? Just curious

The Great Society would have destroyed his Presidency and his party (and the liberalism brand) anyway, war or no war. He lost the south and the support of a whole bunch of whites for the next 40 years. The hatred of liberalism that exists in parts of this country has more to do with Civil Rights than the events of the Vietnam war. After all, Nixon has a big part in that tragedy, as does Eisenhower.

You're completely ignoring the differences in context. In LBJ's time, the political consequences for leaving Vietnam were entirely different. (Not even going to get into the fact that his predecessor might have been killed in part for his desire to leave). People on both sides of the aisle would have let him leave, and America for the most part wasn't even paying attention to what was going on in Vietnam. By 66-67-68, by the time that kind of polarized atmosphere on war existed, he had already escalated. Obama is making this escalation decision in an already charged, hateful and polarized atmosphere.

Please cite the places where you disagree with what I've said.

I don't even know what that means.

News just broke on CNN

MACEDON TO SEND 80 TROOPS!


Do you have any idea what this means? These are the first Macedon warriors to fight in Afghanistan since Alexander the Great. They are returning to fight the ancestors of their ancestor's enemies! I wonder what must be going through the minds of those 80 soldiers. Really a remarkable development in world history

I’ve spent countless hours in my life learning about the 40 000 strong army that Alexander III of Macedon invaded Afghanistan with. His war took place so long ago, that Alexander himself had become a myth by the time of Christ. Yet now here now, in my lifetime, again Macedonia sends an invasion force to this distant land. What an incredible time we live in.

I should clarify that Alexander's army included 40 000 Macedon soldiers when it got to Afghanistan. It had plenty of additional Persian, Egyptian and Bactrian warriors.

You should really read what I type. I do not think he is the Messiah. I said it plain and simple : If I have a good reason to support someone else, I would. I said I'd give him the benefit of the doubt until I find out he has lied.

PS: Most republicans ARE evil. Look at the polls for who believes he's Kenyan. Who thinks we should deny emergency room care to Mexicans. Who think's we should torture. I mean seriously, those moral deficiencies are Republican problems for the most part.

Also, fuck Rahm.

EDIT: I remember the SNL thing now.

EDIT 2: I am not running for office. I am here to give my honest opinions. If people disagree, too bad. I'd prefer they agree obviously, but I'm not going to muzzle my convictions just to have people say "She sure is right!"

Let's just say I'm a Dean girl. I find his vision of the party pretty depressing.

Yes, because when I type "MOST" I really mean "ALL". Jesus christ, of course there are some nice repubs. My dad is one. However when you look at the POLLING I mentioned, most republicans in this nation do believe all sorts of awful things. That's a fact. Am I Ann Coulter for citing it???


When you speak to me like this, I don't even know why I bother to respond to you. I've been nothing but polite in my discussions with you, BW.

Well read some polls and then deal with reality.

WTF is a "hair doll"?

Fully 90% of all my posts are at least 25% in jest. I like Honest Tea, and drank it before I found out it was his favorite. With that said, I'm a fan. Obama is the President and actually does stuff. Makes more sense to get psyced for him than for a fucking football team (what with the foam fingers and face paint). I drink tea. Your problem is?


PS "Fuck Rahm" is at least an appropriate reponse to Rahm. He is famed for his frequent profanity. I could even say I was being ironic. However, no, I mean it. Fuck him. He's kind of a bastard.

You wouldn't be mad at your party if it had not been taken over by crooked religous nuts. I said some of you were good, so do not take offense.

Find your own links. It's not on Huffpo TODAY, but it's been on there frequently. And discussed on TV (countdown, maddow, hardball). I'm not going to google it for you. It's nearly midnight here. Bed time for me.

That is an Onion headline, essentially. And people question why I despise those types.