Godzilla - Page 2

Finished watching Monsters, and now I'm uneasy on Gareth Edwards directing.

I am very impressed with what he did with a small budget, and there were some wonderfully atmospheric shots.

On the other hand, he couldn't make me care for the leads.  Was I supposed to hate the guy?  He was such a spineless, simpering, twat.  And why was he a photojournalist?  He was scared of everything!  And out of his depth at every turn!  If he was supposed to lack basic capability and competence, great, but I don't think that was the idea.  The girl was just a cypher.

Contrivances abounded too.  Why couldn't she (they?) fly home?  Why did they have to take a boat?  Why couldn't they head somewhere else, then home, why directly north?  We were shown that money was not a problem. Also, why couldn't she head for a the nearest US Consulate?  There were US military everywhere, there had to be some kind of diplomatic presence.

The monsters as forces of nature were again, interesting, but I never felt much menace from them, even when they were killing people.  Godzilla is going to have to be scary, it can't be all 'Military BAD!'

Basically, I needed more exposition, more world building, scarier monsters, and more interesting people to put in the danger.

The outline of the right themes were there: Man messing with things he doesn't understand, consequences we can't imagine, military overreaction and the consequences of intervention, everyday people dealing with extraordinary circumstances, but they were to sketchy for my liking.  It seemed like the big point was exploring suburban angst, which I didn't enjoy.

I know I'm being overly harsh, and I will say I'm glad Edwards isn't writing the script.  

I don't think you are overly harsh as I had the same reaction. Except I actively hated the protagonists. Also the girls' father must have hired PhotoGuy to placate his wife, because he sure didn't know jack about actually getting her home in a safe and quick fashion. Also neither of them seemed to know much about the MONSTERS INFESTING THE EARTH.

This is one of those films where I just don't understand the Geek love.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cylon Baby 

I don't think you are overly harsh as I had the same reaction. Except I actively hated the protagonists. Also the girls' father must have hired PhotoGuy to placate his wife, because he sure didn't know jack about actually getting her home in a safe and quick fashion. Also neither of them seemed to know much about the MONSTERS INFESTING THE EARTH.

This is one of those films where I just don't understand the Geek love.

I concur, and I did actively hate Photoguy.  My entire lack of care, and strong desire for the leads to be eaten, makes me very concerned with the human element of Edwards' Godzilla.

We're never told why Girl was in Mexico, what she does for a living, or anything about her, really, she's a completely empty character.

There's more: How did one of the Monsters take down an F-15 unscathed?  Or do any of the massive amounts of damage they appeared to have done (I know, I know, it was all the eeeeevil Military)? Why was the border wall unmanned when there were troops all over the place through the whole movie?  How can 300' tall creatures be so hard to track?  What damage are these things doing to the ecosystem?

It would have been easier to suspend disbelief if we weren't stuck for over an hour with nothing but Photoguy trying to get in Girl's pants.

I boil the complaints down to 2 things mostly. Budget and near-verite style. The audience is either asked to fill in many blanks or not be concerned with them and just focus on what's going on in the moment.

I think (hope) Godzilla's (genre and scale) demands are going to force some wing-spreading.

My complaints are that the two main characters, with whom we are supposed to empathize and/or sympathize, are a) dumb as bricks b) clueless about the title creatures (which is real strange considering the whole plot revolves around Girl being trapped in an area effected by the Monsters) c) douchebags.

The verite style and the budget are things I can forgive.

I think you're misunderstanding me. I believe the one set of complaints (character) is related to the other (focus due to budget & POV due to style). Well, that and writing.

But I enjoyed it well enough regardless. It's no THE HOST or DISTRICT 9.

Hm interesting, but I think they could  have spent some time creating good characters who are intelligent (maybe Girl is deliberately trying to break into the Monster zone to test out some theory? Maybe she's a thrill seeker? Has a death wish? Any motivation?).

You mention District 9....that film would have worked just as well with half the FX budget IMO because the film makers created a world and populated it with interesting characters in conflicts which felt real. Most of whom are pretty unlikable at times, now that I think about it.

I don't think it's fair to judge MONSTERS by the criteria of a GODZILLA movie, or to assume Edwards' GODZILLA movie will be like MONSTERS, which is maybe happening a little in some of these posts, albeit unintentionally, I'm sure. What I take away from it as far as what's applicable to him doing GODZILLA isn't the script but that he's got a good eye, he can do spectacle, he's comfortable in the realm of sci-fi/fantasy, and he can milk a budget. In other words he's got talent. Excellent.

I think it's too easy to pigeonhole a director into only being suited to a certain kind of film, especially when they're new and relatively untested. I prefer to give up and comers the benefit of the doubt.

I want to give him the benefit of the doubt, certainly, and I'm heartened that someone else is writing the script.

Monsters, coupled with this background as a documentary filmmaker, still leave me concerned that he's got a tin ear for dialogue and characterisation.

This is getting cliche, but I'd love to see Brad Bird behind the camera on a Kaiju movie.

Started watching Godzilla Raids Again last night, I don't remember seeing it before.  Rough one so far, it's the original american dub, and the narration is nonstop.

Yes, the omnipresent narration in the American version of that is awful, not only telling instead of showing, but even telling what is already being shown. It's like the producers not only felt the need to hold the audience's hands, but were afraid to even have a moment of relative silence. The US dub of RODAN is guilty of it too, thought it's not as bad.

Of course, they're just following in the footsteps of GODZILLA: KING OF THE MONSTERS, although the creation of the Steve Martin character and his integration into the film is such an extreme and unique case of hand-holding and Americanization that it's sort of fascinating and historically significant, whereas it's just annoying in GODZILLA RAIDS AGAIN (or rather, GIGANTIS: THE FIRE MONSTER).

I kind of love the cheesy news broadcasts in King Kong vs. Godzilla.  Like a Japanese pharmaceutical company bottling berries is going to be a major news story.  But you have to give that news department credit,  because they are on top of everything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Dickson 

I kind of love the cheesy news broadcasts in King Kong vs. Godzilla.  Like a Japanese pharmaceutical company bottling berries is going to be a major news story.  But you have to give that news department credit,  because they are on top of everything.

Absolutely, they even had a space station!  Cribbed from another Toho movie, but still, Space News!

I like that example too, because, like KING OF THE MONSTERS, it's a weird way of doing it (though, clearly, not that unusual for the time), plus that movie as a whole is pretty comedic so adding that element just ups the camp value.

Plus, in its own silly way, it makes the events of the film seem a little more momentous.

KK vs. G also contains one of my favorite cuts of all time:

The transition from the uber-serious general to Kong just running and stomping the living shit out of everything just kills me every single time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBananaGrabber 

Started watching Godzilla Raids Again last night, I don't remember seeing it before.  Rough one so far, it's the original american dub, and the narration is nonstop.

Coincidentally, I just picked up the DVD of GRA this week for $5 at a local discount place.  Both the Japanese and American versions are a bit disappointing, but the former is definitely the one to watch.  For five bucks, there's enough fun to be mined from it.  And it fairs better as a quick cash-in sequel to an original monster film than something like Son Of Kong.  Lessen the annoying emphasis on the uninteresting people, fix the sped-up monster shots, then tighten the pace in between Godzilla appearances and you'd have a damn good G-flick.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doc Phibes 

 Lessen the annoying emphasis on the uninteresting people, fix the sped-up monster shots, then tighten the pace in between Godzilla appearances and you'd have a damn good G-flick.

Which is pretty good advice for a good number of Godzilla films.

Godzilla Raids Again abuses all monster movie lull privileges.  It's the only movie I can think of (kaiju or otherwise) that interrupts the climactic battle halfway through so the good guys can fly home and talk things over a bit.

Godzilla Raids Again does have Godzilla defeated in a logic way; aside from why a reptile would swim onto an iceberg or not use his flame breath to free himself before being covered in ice. So its logical for a Godzilla movie.

Skipped the Oscars, and missed this little gem:

http://badassdigest.com/2012/02/27/war-of-the-gargantuas-the-movie-that-made-brad-pitt-an-actor/

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaz 

Godzilla Raids Again does have Godzilla defeated in a logic way; aside from why a reptile would swim onto an iceberg or not use his flame breath to free himself before being covered in ice. So its logical for a Godzilla movie.

And, to once again bring it back to KING KONG VS. GODZILLA, it leads to one of Big G's best entrances in the whole franchise - the surprisingly suspenseful scene in the sub, and then the hilarious but awesome way the helicopter pilot yells "GODZILLAAAAAAAAAAA" as the monster is revealed by the crumbling ice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Benenson 

 

And, to once again bring it back to KING KONG VS. GODZILLA, it leads to one of Big G's best entrances in the whole franchise - the surprisingly suspenseful scene in the sub, and then the hilarious but awesome way the helicopter pilot yells "GODZILLAAAAAAAAAAA" as the monster is revealed by the crumbling ice.

 

 

I'm always struck by how good that shot of Godzilla in the iceberg looks.  There's actually a lot of really good miniature work going on in that film, and as I've said before, that Godzilla costume is a thing of beauty.  If only the Kong costume wasn't so disappointing, especially with the magically growing and shrinking arms.

I've always liked that Godzilla design simply for it being maybe the single most unique one. It's like the George Lazenby of the Godzilla franchise (except, you know, good). On the other hand I don't think it has a lot of personality. Granted that's probably what they were going for and it fits the movie, but still. This is no doubt clouded by nostalgia but my favorite suit is still the DESTROY ALL MONSTERS/SMOG MONSTER/GIGAN version. I know, I know. Can we all agree at least that the single worst is SON OF GODZILLA?
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by S.D. Bob Plissken 

On a side note, I hope most of you G-fans didn't make the recent mistake that I did.  I'd held off for the longest time on picking up most of the Sony releases of Godzilla films.  Partially out of laziness, but mostly because they used to charge $25 a pop for them.  Year before last, they cut the prices in half and I'd slowly been picking a few up.  I figured I had plenty of time to nab them all.  Not so.  They're all out of print now and selling for upwards of $60 a piece.  Bummer!  Looks like I'll have to wait until the new one hits theaters (2014?) for the inevitable reissues.

Damn, really? All of them? Even the Millennium films? Luckily I think I have pretty much everything I'd want - only missing some of the Millenniums and the two Heisei double feature flipper discs. But that sucks. Still wish Classic Media could've gotten the rights to the whole series. That would have been amazing.

My favorite Godzilla design is from Godzilla 2000. Those extra large dorsal spines are rad, and the head looks really badass. Lots of teeth, and eyes that are expressive, mostly expressing ANGER!

I've always preferred the more bestial Godzilla to the googly-eyed version.  Which is why Kong version and the later costumes work so well for me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by S.D. Bob Plissken 

On a side note, I hope most of you G-fans didn't make the recent mistake that I did.  I'd held off for the longest time on picking up most of the Sony releases of Godzilla films.  Partially out of laziness, but mostly because they used to charge $25 a pop for them.  Year before last, they cut the prices in half and I'd slowly been picking a few up.  I figured I had plenty of time to nab them all.  Not so.  They're all out of print now and selling for upwards of $60 a piece.  Bummer!  Looks like I'll have to wait until the new one hits theaters (2014?) for the inevitable reissues.

Which ones are you missing?

EDIT: Nevermind. SEA MONSTER, HEDORAH, SON OF, VS MECHA-G are more than they used to be.
 

I really need to get a good copy of Destroy All Monsters.  Sci-Fi channel used to do godzilla marathons all the time, but I probably haven't seen it since, 2002 or so.  

I recall the attack on tokyo as being incredibly well shot:  The ominous up-angles on Yukiko Kobayashi as it begins, the rampage, and a really atmospheric pan across the aftermath.

Heisei era Godzilla is probably my favorite design, I like the more lion-like face.

Man I miss Skiffy's marathons.  Should have kept my old tapes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBananaGrabber 

I really need to get a good copy of Destroy All Monsters.  Sci-Fi channel used to do godzilla marathons all the time, but I probably haven't seen it since, 2002 or so.  

I recall the attack on tokyo as being incredibly well shot:  The ominous up-angles on Yukiko Kobayashi as it begins, the rampage, and a really atmospheric pan across the aftermath.

The US Blu-ray came out in November:
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDCompare3/destroyallmosters.htm

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Destroy-All-Monsters-Blu-ray/24646/#Review

My favorite Godzilla designs are Godzilla, Mothra and King Ghidorah: Giant Monsters All-Out Attack and Godzilla vs The Cosmic Monster. Son of Godzilla is the worst. 

The GMK suit is by far my favorite of the Millennium films. I like that the FINAL WARS design is so lean compared to everything else from the last 25 years but the head is too much like the other 00s films and I'm not a fan of that style.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doc Phibes 

 

The US Blu-ray came out in November:
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDCompare3/destroyallmosters.htm

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Destroy-All-Monsters-Blu-ray/24646/#Review

Oh man, I hope they got the AIP dub. That bugs me about the previous versions of DAM and several of the Sony Godzilla DVDs. Toho's "International" versions just aren't the same.

Yeah, didn't like the head or spines on millennium Godzilla.

Oddly enough it's GMK's feet that keep me from being sold on that design.  It's mostly the angles (and I blame Toho for this, I don't recall the same problem with the Gamera movies), but there are several shots where they just look like novelty slippers.

No comments on the controversial White Eyes in the GMK suit? I disliked them at first but they've grown on me.

I always liked the white eyes. Makes Godzilla look evil.

Funny that I was just (mildly) criticizing the KK VS G suit for having less personality, but the white eyes worked for me. In both cases that more - as Richard put it - bestial style fits the story being told. I also think the white eyes are a bit of a throwback to the original GOJIRA. That suit may even have pupils (I'm actually not sure) but if it does they're way less visible than pretty much every subsequent design. One of the things I like about the GMK suit is that (again, like the KING KONG VS version) it's not quite like any other. Yet it does have similarities to many other Godzilla suits, both classic and modern, and depending on the angle it evokes different aspects of them. In a way GMK is the most revisionist take on Godzilla's outside of the Tri-Star version but that design is sort of celebrating the character's whole history.

I watched Godzilla Raids Again last night, and I hate to say it, but it was pretty terrible.  Not even enjoyable in the cheesy way some of the later films are.  It starts of promisingly with Godzilla and Anguirus going right at it with no build-up or explanation, but the human scenes are just so long and interminable.  And the big fight ends halfway through the film!  I liked that it was a brutal, up-close fight as opposed to the beam-fest some of the later films turned into, but once Anguirus is dispatched, Godzilla pretty much disappears from the film, and what we get isn't all that compelling.

Yeah its a shame too, because that fight is a doozy. I also like the premise that you can be walking around an island and literally stumble across two giant monsters fighting each other. No wind up at all, just BOOM!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Dickson 

I watched Godzilla Raids Again last night, and I hate to say it, but it was pretty terrible.  Not even enjoyable in the cheesy way some of the later films are.  It starts of promisingly with Godzilla and Anguirus going right at it with no build-up or explanation, but the human scenes are just so long and interminable.  And the big fight ends halfway through the film!  I liked that it was a brutal, up-close fight as opposed to the beam-fest some of the later films turned into, but once Anguirus is dispatched, Godzilla pretty much disappears from the film, and what we get isn't all that compelling.

Took me a while, but I finally finished it.  I liked the shots of snowy Hokkaido, but that's all I can say to recommend it, awful long 88 minutes, all told.

Supposedly, it was going to be heavily reworked for the american release as 'The Volcano Monsters'  Toho even sent over new suits.  I wonder what happened?

Watching Godzilla vs. Monster X on netflix streaming right now.  I have a crappy pan-and-scan DVD, and the netflix copy is widescreen, though still the original american dub.  Love the aspect-ratio, it looks gorgeous.  One of my favorites, Kumi Mizuno! *wolf-whistle*

  I recently watched Monster Zero on my blu ray. My first thought was, I've never seen a Godzilla movie look so good. My second was, that is clearly a toy rocket. I love Godzilla movies warts and all.

  The DVD was the Classic Media edition, but not blu ray itself.

I am new to this board, wanted to say hello to everyone. As for Godzilla love the films and anything related to films such as posters and vinyl figures.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cylon Baby 

Yeah its a shame too, because that fight is a doozy.

It's very brutal and animalistic, and I thought, "If they're like this now, what's this going to escalate to?"  And then it's over and I'm like, "Um, there's an awful lot of time left."  Disappointing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBananaGrabber 

Supposedly, it was going to be heavily reworked for the american release as 'The Volcano Monsters'  Toho even sent over new suits.  I wonder what happened?

The studio that was going to produce it shut down before production started.

Didn't meant to dissapoint the suit design discussion.  I was fine with GMK's white eyes in the context of the movie, with all the metaphysical gobbletygook.

Watched Godzilla's Revenge.  I can't hate it, it's short, the music is wild, and I think it's an under-appreciated portrait of a child's descent into madness.

Joking aside, that poor kid lived in an industrial hell.

I think Godzilla Raids Again remains at the bottom of my favorites.

I've only seen five or six Godzilla films, but I found Godzilla's Revenge to be one of the ballsiest films of its era. I can't think of another film that's captured child loneliness the same way. Its up there with the original in my book. 

To paraphrase the commentary track on Godzilla's Revenge: "This film is debated among Godzilla fans. Is it the worst Godzilla movie or the second worst?'

It's interesting that the film is about being a lonely latchkey kid, and for that reason it's maybe a little misunderstood or unfairly maligned by fans, but it's still far from one of the best. More of an amusing curiosity/footnote in my eyes.

I haven't seen that many, but it certainly wasn't the worst of my set. That honor goes to Godzilla Raids Again. What a snore. What exactly is wrong with the film? It's rough around the edges, but so is the original film in ways.

The film that really struck me out of the set was Ghidorah, the Three Headed Monster, its essentially an Avengers level epic that wasn't  programmed from the start (i.e. exciting). It must have been insane to know as a kid that Rodan, Mothra, and Godzilla would be starring in a film together. I liked Terror of Mechagodzilla too. It was a very tragic, almost feminist tale. These films might be in need of critical re-evaluation, they're definitely better than what Harryhausen was churning out at the time.

Well, at least half of the monster scenes consist of footage reused from other Godzilla movies, and of the ones that aren't, probably half are essentially filler. The rest actually do advance the plot and themes but still just aren't very good. Minya is a goofy and irritating character. The subplot with the crooks is out of place and probably also added to pad out the running time. While it may be kinda interesting for a kids movie (though I'd say "ballsy" is a stretch), it's lacking a lot of what I want from a Godzilla movie, and in fact feels more like something from the Gamera series. The biggest problem is that all this adds up to something I just don't find very entertaining. Less boring than GODZILLA RAIDS AGAIN but more boring than most of the other Showa films (and nowhere near GOJIRA, which is one of the greatest monster movies of all time). Thus, an amusing curiosity and a footnote in the franchise but not a highlight.

I can see where the stock footage shots are included (The monster suits change), but I don't see how they're really a problem given the context of the film. They work quite well, except for the jet scene I guess. Ichiro is putting himself in his favorite films. Also, I don't get the Minya complaint at all. It's hilarious that Godzilla's son is a wimpy, loser and its easy to see why Ichiro and Minya relate. They both have problems connecting with their father. I'll give you the point about the kidnapper plot though.

Like I said earlier though, its rough, its not as cohesive as something like Invasion of the Astro-Monsters, but where that film flows, there's substance here. Honda's digging at the conditions of urban society, and I like that. It's what makes these films more interesting than the dreck America was producing at the time.

For me the substance is trumped by the film feeling cobbled together and just not being very entertaining to watch.