Gordon Faking His Death in TDK

I got nothing.

And them going to Gordon's wife and kids to break the news that he "died" was even more needless. Why string them along?

I could see why he wanted to protect his family... But faking his death seemed a bit much. Was the Joker even going after family members?

True, but I'm sure he would have sooner or later. Then again after he "turned" Dent he kind of went off and did something else.

I have brought this up with several people before when discussing the movie, and nobody has a good explanation. Simply put, there isn't one. The most I've ever gotten from someone is just the reiteration of "he has to protect his family" which is a bullshit answer and one that's completely out of character.

Gordon realizes that the Joker is going after prominent targets such as the commisioner and the mayor. By taking the bullet and foiling the Joker's plans, he puts himself (literally) in the line of fire. This is, of course, not taking into consideration that he might have already been a target as a seemingly well-known/rare, honest Gotham cop. Though I seriously doubt it.

So if he fakes his death, he thinks the Joker will move on to the next guy? Is that the plan? How completely selfish and unheroic. Gordon and his family are safe, but now someone else is at risk.

And that in itself is making huge assumptions about the Joker's mo. Is he even targeting people's families? Why start with Gordon's? And the way Gordon robs the Joker of the mayor's death, who's to say he wouldn't go after the family anyway as revenge?

Ultimately, it's a decision based solely on providing a fist-pumping reveal when Gordon shows up again. Nothing in the script or characteirzation supports it. I'd be really fascinated if someone could find a legit reason.

It was just another thing that made the movie too long, and detracted from the Two Face stuff, which was the biggest ball drop in the whole thing, I thought.

Edit: I've got a friend coming over to watch movies tomorrow night who thinks TDK is the best thing ever. I'll ask him if he's got anything.

Gordon faked his death because THE DARK KNIGHT was made by and for retarded people. It can't be explained or justified. Ask Nolan, and he won't be able to answer.

I can't really think of any reason to put that subplot in the movie, either.

Maybe it's intended to set up Rachel's actual death later on by faking out the audience. If Gordon's death is fake, all the other main character are safe, too. I doubt that, though.

TDK has a lot of moments like that. I like the film a lot, but on a story level it can be ridiculously clunky and convoluted.

I suppose he didn't think he could trust many people to run the trap, so he hid his presence and ran things. He only trusted Nicky Katt, which we should all do.

I suppose he trusted the other couple cops too, which ended up not being as good as trusting Nicky Katt.

While the Joker wasn't planning on going after Gordon, it was likely he'd try to hit Harvey-Batman, which he did.

I can buy it in the story that he wants to keep a low profile after mucking up the Joker's assassination plot (and of course the clown would've gone after Gordon, he would be too perfect a target), but I think it's just there to fake out the audience and put a button on the truck chase sequence. Someone needs to cold clock the Joker, someone he didn't see coming, so who else to bring down righteous comeuppance than the one dyed-in-the-wool Good Guy in the whole series?

Ultimately, it's a decision based solely on providing a fist-pumping reveal when Gordon shows up again.

Bingo.

The subplot would make a little more sense if there was any kind of notion that Gordon was planning something before the shooting.

The way the movie shows this subplot it's like we're just supposed to understand that there was an attack on the Mayor that Gordon had NO idea about beforehand, but decided AT THAT MOMENT, that he was going to fake his death out of some improvisational epiphany he has as he's shot.

It seems to me, in retrospect, that the screenwriters wanted to freak out Batman fans by making them think at that moment that Gordon was actually dead, yet also provide the shock to the audience when Gordon sneaks back in. As if the shock of Gordon returning is supposed to remove the impracticable and sheer inexplicable nature of the subplot.

I'm still scratching my head.

It really does make no sense at all.

Okay, I don't remember the exact timeline.

Meh, it's retarded.

HAHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAAHAHHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When I seen this at the theater, I as well was scratching my head about Gordon's death. Also, I seen this recently on DVD w/ a friend, whom is a non-movie person, she was like WTF?! She kept asking for a logical explanation, I told her, "I don't fucking know!"

There was no story reason. The only thing I can think of is that it provided the good guys with their only instance of actually out-thinking the Joker instead of always being two steps behind. Of course they out-thought him in something he never even bothered with but even hollow victories are still better than outright losing.

To me I always took it as Nolan realizing how much of a hit this was going to be regardless and saying "Fuck it."

Kinda like George Lucas really...

"We made this much money? From toys!?"

The beginning of the end...

I've thought about this one before and I really can't come up with a good reason why he did it. The only one I can think of is based on speculation alone, in that Gordon and Dent planned the "spur of the moment" reveal all along and they had been playing the long con since their first meeting.

But to be honest, I don't for a second belive that is the case.

I haven't put a lot of thought into that question, but, with what little I did, I always assumed that it was to free Gordon up as a free agent. As was mentioned, he's essentially the only honest cop on the GPD, thus he's the only one that Bats can trust. By faking his death, he appears to be taken off the gameboard. In reality, he's still maneuvering behind the scenes--in concert with Bats--to eradicate an unpredictable, chaotic creature.

Eh, that's what I got, anyways.

I thought the only reason for it from a screenwriting perspective was to get Gordon out of the way for Dent's "I'm Batman" charade. Gordon's the only one to have met both guys at the same time, ergo he knows that Dent's full of it when he confesses. So had he been an active and public head of the police force he probably would've nixed the dangerous and dumb fake-out that Dent went through.

From an in-story perspective, though, it just makes no sense whatsoever.

I think it would have worked better had they approached it from the Lethal Weapon angle. Not premeditated, just let them take advantage of the fact that Gordon was "shot".

"Bats, they don't know I'm not dead."

Not to be that guy but...

Saw. The word is saw not seen.

I think it could have been a somewhat decent twist had the Dent fake out/Gordon death/Batman chase been all part of a plan the three of them constructed. Also if it would've led to something grander than Gordon being allowed to drive the goddamn truck.

How did he get access to drive the truck anyway ? Let alone continue with all the technicalities of pulling a stunt like that off. He would have had to reveal his identity to people in the police force, which begs the question...he wouldn't tell his own family he was still alive yet corrupt cops were fair game ? Especially ones that double cross everyone a few scenes later ?

I think if they just cut out both scenes with Barbara Gordon, it could have been a somewhat subtle play on audience expectations. He didn't necessarily fake his death, but the audience is left guessing. It would still be sloppy though.

What? No... To me it felt like Nolan went all out with this film and there are just aspects of it that he did not want to edit out or it seemed great on paper.

This scene for example, just did not feel needed and bogged down the story just a bit. The same with Bats going to Hong Kong, it was cool as hell, but did we need it?...but I don't wanna get off topic.

If Gordon's line to the mayor had been something along the lines of "I had to let him thinking he was winning", the contrivances would be so much easier to swallow. As it is, it's a mess. Who knows Gordon's still alive? How did he get in the truck if the corrupt cops don't know about him? What if Joker hadn't gone after the armoured car?

I've only seen the film once, but I remember this being essentially the way I interpreted it too. How they could have planned ahead for an assasination attempt or improvised on the spot remains elusive, though.

The whole WE HAD FAITH IN EACH OTHER part of the movie made no sense. Gordon fakes his death, Batman quits, Dent turns himself in.
It still works better than the tedious reality show voting on the ferries, though.

But but but Tiny Lister!

Not that it's an excuse, but they do that all the time in the comics and animated series, don't they? Maybe it was just a throwaway comic-related red herring? Which, yeah, is sorta dumb.

STRAIGHT-TALK: Who gives a fuck? Is this CHUD forum writing 101? GTFO!

BTW: Devin asked to stay on topic and you replied to my post. My bad to Devin for going off topic responding to this GUY.

___

Where are the TDK diehards to give insight to Gordon's death?

They're on Devin's facebook page, debating, debating, then saying "I'm just going to pretend Gordon knew (about Dent's made-up-on-the-spot plan to turn himself in)."

The reason that subplot is in the movie is so Gary Oldman can have a kickass moment and DO something in the film.

I could buy that argument if there was any modicum of that possibility shown on the screen previous to the street shooting. The way the movie shows how everything went down shows it as if Gordon was acting in the spur of the moment, which as described by many people here, just makes no sense. Gordon never felt at all threatened by the Joker; there were no threats on his or any of his family's lives at that time. It was out of character for him do so as well.

See, had Gordon planned this as a way of avoiding the mayor's assassination whilst still drawing The Joker out into the open, it would've been pretty good. But that's the problem with Nolan's batflicks - they spend so much time on procedural detail and often forget about the plot mechanics. Did we really need an explanation of the law that allowed Dent to charge everyone in the mob at once? Couldn't he have just been the hardnosed DA who finally dares to press charges on a large scale?

All they needed was a quick qualifying scene before the assassination attempt where the audience understood that Gordon, Dent, and Bats had something cooking, so the reveal of Gordon being alive would have been a relief and a "Oh so that's what they were doing!" moment. Instead it's a, "So, Gordon just told no one that he was alive for no apparent reason, and anonymously walked onto the SWAT team without anyone asking questions?" moment.

I think that this is the most clear explanation to why this happens in the movie. There is no valid reason or explanation, which is obvious. Nolan wrote Gordon's appearance as a punchline to a joke that makes no sense.

Just like these contrived situations: cell phone in the criminals belly, the lone officer INSIDE the interrogation room with Joker

I'm actually pretty sure he was talking about not getting in to the whole thing about how much Devin has it in for Batman or launching ad hominem attacks at him. But nice try.

And stop with the "It's just an internet forum" bullshit. It's called communicating effectively or, in your case, not sounding like a moron.

It's never made any sense. I dig the movie enough where I can ignore it. But I have no problem making fun of how dumb and lazily it was handled.

It goes hand in hand with all the other hilarious coincidence and inconsistencies that riddle the film. Flaws that stand out so much more because of the movie's 'gritty/realistic' tone.

Wouldn't have been much of a plan if the Joker had shot Gordon in the head.

"That's a risk we were willing to take."

I think that the Hong Kong scenes and Gordon's death could have easily been edited out in the script stage. It seems that the Hong Kong scenes were just an excuse to have another scene to show off the IMAX cameras.

Supposedly the faking the death part of the movie is from one of comics (I think Long Halloween or something) where Harvey fakes his death, but they switched it for this movie. Where in the comic book it made sense as Harvey was a target, in the Nolan movie him abandoning his post would seem to undermine his character as the white knight.

So they switched it to Gordon, but then it just made things worse. I guess I'll just assume that if the Joker was targeting important people, Gordon probably knew it was some sort of inside job to kill the commish. We do see that there are 2 dirty cops in Gordon's unit so by working behind the scenes he can figure out who the rat is. I'm sure the Joker would of gone after him eventually when he finds out who Batman is working with as well.

Still, he was in cohoots obviously with Dent to capture the Joker, and I guess he didn't want his family at risk. He goes back to them after the Joker is caught. Both Dent and Gordon believe in Batman is the answer at that point.

The Hong Kong scenes (and Wayne's penthouse apartment) evoked the 70s Batman a lot to me, so they didn't grate. The whole point of the Hong Kong scene was to show how Batman could operate outside the law to the law's benefit, etc. etc. The sequence took forever and could have been more exciting, but it had a point. Fake-Killing Gordon was something they were never able to back into, though.

What's weird is that even Batman didn't seem to know about Gordon faking his death. When Barbara is screaming at him (presumably), I was wondering, "Why is he even there?" He looked like he was saddened by it. To sell the death-faking? Wha? It makes no sense!

Which also leads into me wondering if Batman was really knocked out after he crashes the Batpod when he fails a game of chicken. Didn't even seem like that big deal of a crash for him.

You guys did notice how the Joker was killing people, right? Poisoning liquor bottles, rigging cars with explosives, and the like. If I were one of the main guys working the case and had a wife and young children at home, I would not want to leave even a chance of something like those things unfolding at my house. Is it a dick move that opens up others to risk rather than you and yours? Yeah, but we're not always rational when it comes to our families and their safety, which I think the ending of the film returns to nicely. Setting it up on the fly isn't hard either or unique to crime films. You just need to convince the doctors and your superiors to mislead the public about your condition after the incident.

So if Gordon has enough people he can trust to keep his death under wraps, why couldn't he entrust him to take his family out of Gotham? That would keep them out of harm's way and let him continue his work.

There is no good story reason for Gordon to be hiding behind the scenes. All it amounts to is him being the mystery truck driver. He could have just done that without the disguise and it would have gone the same way.

Gordon and Batman were "playing this one close to the chest" and that's all you fucking need to know, got it?!?!

I'm pretty sure I've read comments from people who made the movie about how Batman, Gordon and Dent all act on their own and inadvertently "team up" to capture the joker. What a magical power trio!

And did anyone ever explain why Batman didn't call Gordon and tell him about the "clowns are hostages/doctors bad guys" thing?

Jonathan Nolan would've called it a Magical Power Triumvirate!