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Ballsiest game-changers in TV.

post #1 of 82
12/14/09 at 5:22am
Thread Starter 
In tribute to the completely amazing revelation in the Dexter season 4 finale tonight, I'd like to talk about other ballsy things shows have done that changed the game. For those slow on the up-take, this is a spoiler thread. You have been warned and will be mocked if you start bitching.

Alias: Sydney, her dad, and the rest of the CIA take down SD-6 in the middle of the second season.

Venture Bros: When Hank and Dean were killed at the end of season 1, we learn in season 2 that the boys have been killed many times and that there's a huge supply of clones of them. No more tension, right? Wrong, the clones get destroyed at the end of season 3.

Chuck: "I know Kung Fu."

Buffy: Angelus kills Jenny, letting the viewers at home know that no one is safe. See also: Angel turning evil

West Wing: As much as I don't really like this show, finding out Bartlett had MS was great.

Veronica Mars: Aaron Echolls is declared Not Guilty.
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post #2 of 82
12/14/09 at 5:29am
The Shield: Season 5, Shane killing Lem.
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post #3 of 82
12/14/09 at 5:39am
The year jump forward in BSG.

John Connor jumping into the future at the end of TSCC. Then again, the series was cancelled so it didn't end up having any real effect.

I disagree with Buffy though. It always seemed like the characters all lived unless it was to make a point. Except for a few side characters in Graduation, it wasn't like anybody randomly died in battle. And frankly, Jenny's death didn't actually have that much of an effect over the long term.
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post #4 of 82
12/14/09 at 5:54am
"College" episode of Sopranos.
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post #5 of 82
12/14/09 at 8:47am
The Wire: The death of Stringer Bell. Like Richard Kimble finding the One-Armed Man halfway through the run of The Fugitive.
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post #6 of 82
12/14/09 at 8:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by neoolong View Post
I disagree with Buffy though. It always seemed like the characters all lived unless it was to make a point. Except for a few side characters in Graduation, it wasn't like anybody randomly died in battle. And frankly, Jenny's death didn't actually have that much of an effect over the long term.
I dunno, Anya's death was pretty random in battle.

Always thought it was pretty gutsy back then to have the female lead of NYPD BLUE be not only a dirty cop, and to not only shoot a Mafioso boss in cold blood, but to do all that within the first episode.
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post #7 of 82
12/14/09 at 9:16am
Deadwood, Season 2, Episode 1: "A Lie Agreed Upon, Part I." Swearengen mouths off to Bullock one too many times about fucking the widow in the camp on the day his family is arriving. For the entire ensuing sequence, you actually believe that there is a chance that one of the two main characters in the series is going to kill the other in the middle of the street. Then Swearengen sees the kid and it "unmans" him. It sets everything future conflict in the series in motion and puts you on notice that Milch is willing to take the show anywhere he wants.
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post #8 of 82
12/14/09 at 11:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renn Brown View Post
"College" episode of Sopranos.
Expand.

Also, not so much, Richard.
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post #9 of 82
12/14/09 at 11:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuchulain View Post
Deadwood, Season 2, Episode 1: "A Lie Agreed Upon, Part I." Swearengen mouths off to Bullock one too many times about fucking the widow in the camp on the day his family is arriving. For the entire ensuing sequence, you actually believe that there is a chance that one of the two main characters in the series is going to kill the other in the middle of the street. Then Swearengen sees the kid and it "unmans" him. It sets everything future conflict in the series in motion and puts you on notice that Milch is willing to take the show anywhere he wants.
That's an awesome call. I've only just started working my way through the series and that fight had me on the edge of my seat.

As for "Buffy", the real game changer for me occurred in the first season. Up until "The Pack", the show was nothing more than a mildly entertaining distraction. Then, they had Xander--along with some delinquents--get possessed by hyena demons and proceed to EAT THE FREAKIN' SCHOOL PRINCIPAL. At that point, I had to sit up and take notice. Having one of your male leads devour another character, WOW.

Further, "Angel" was chock full of shocking game changers (at least to my mind): Angel setting Darla and Dru on fire in cold blood; Doyle sacrificing himself to save the Jewish demons; Wesley kidnapping Connor. The list goes on and on.
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post #10 of 82
12/14/09 at 11:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RathBandu View Post
Also, not so much, Richard.
Maybe it came from watching the entire series in one run and knowing there would be two more seasons afterward, but seeing the death of the "Big Bad" -- and having it come with the cops just about to close in and finally nab him -- seemed a pretty big move to me. Lesser shows would have milked Stringer out until the series finale. So maybe not game changing in terms of The Wire itself, but game changing to me in how to view a continuing drama.
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post #11 of 82
12/14/09 at 11:48am
As for "College", wasn't that the first time we saw Tony actually get his hands dirty?
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post #12 of 82
12/14/09 at 11:49am
Calling Stringer "the Big Bad" is such a surface, fundamental misunderstanding of the show. Also, you want to talk about Wire game-changers, effectively "dropping" the Barksdale/Bell storyline for an entire season to focus on the plight of fat white guys is probably a better choice.
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post #13 of 82
12/14/09 at 11:51am
Or making an audience think they had a star and leading man and then saying "aw, we'll get back to ol' McNutty some other time".
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post #14 of 82
12/14/09 at 11:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RathBandu View Post
Calling Stringer "the Big Bad" is such a surface, fundamental misunderstanding of the show.
I don't think he is, but a lesser show would have set him up like that, and The Wire bucked that convention.

Honestly, my post should have probably just been "The Wire. Period."
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post #15 of 82
12/14/09 at 11:54am
Yeah, but the whole character of McNulty is a game-changer, especially in how it subverts/presents the reality of that lone-wolf cop archtype of tv/modern fiction. But sticking him on the boat and/or abandoning him for most of season four are totally in the wheelhouse of what you're talking about.

Would-be game-changer: Zoey Bartlet getting kidnapped.
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post #16 of 82
12/14/09 at 11:55am
I'd say the bigger DEADWOOD game-changer was Wild Bill getting unceremoniously shot in the head, with no dramatic build-up, no music cues, nothing. Just a quick pop and there goes the most famous character in the show.
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post #17 of 82
12/14/09 at 11:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RathBandu View Post
Calling Stringer "the Big Bad" is such a surface, fundamental misunderstanding of the show.
I always thought that the "big bad" in the series were the different social institutions that each season of the show focused on. The show seemed to be making the point that these institutions in the show's depiction of Baltimore--and all institutions in life itself--ultimately compromise the individuals of which they are composed.

The show seems to tip its hand here in season 1 when McNulty confesses he's pursuing the case not because its the right thing to do but to show how smart he is and highlight the dysfunction of the police department.
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post #18 of 82
12/14/09 at 12:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merriweather View Post
I'd say the bigger DEADWOOD game-changer was Wild Bill getting unceremoniously shot in the head, with no dramatic build-up, no music cues, nothing. Just a quick pop and there goes the most famous character in the show.
I could see that, but--historically speaking, knowing where Wild Bill was AND who he was playing cards with--it certainly wasn't a surprise.
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post #19 of 82
12/14/09 at 12:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by neoolong View Post
The year jump forward in BSG.
I immediately thought of that when I saw the title of this thread. A very bold move indeed and the writers pulled it off.
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post #20 of 82
12/14/09 at 12:03pm
Not surprising in the historical sense, but certainly surprising in the "this is a Wild West drama with Bill Hickock as one of the leads, and yet he was just gunned down with no fanfare and very little drama preceding it" way. It set the tone for DEADWOOD's take on history.
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post #21 of 82
12/14/09 at 12:08pm
Lost: Through the Looking Glass.
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post #22 of 82
12/14/09 at 12:27pm
The 5-year jump ahead for Desperate Housewives has done wonders for the show (or so I've been told). I kinda thought that was ballsy when I first caught wind.
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post #23 of 82
12/14/09 at 12:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattioli View Post

As for "Buffy", the real game changer for me occurred in the first season. Up until "The Pack", the show was nothing more than a mildly entertaining distraction. Then, they had Xander--along with some delinquents--get possessed by hyena demons and proceed to EAT THE FREAKIN' SCHOOL PRINCIPAL. At that point, I had to sit up and take notice. Having one of your male leads devour another character, WOW.
It's been a while since I've seen it, but I thought Xander wasn't with the pack when they ate Principal Flutie. He did, however, eat the pig with them.

And I feel that Jenny's slaughter wasn't so much game-changing because "no one is safe," but because Angelus proved himself to be truly, irredeemably evil. Other shows would have made him into more of an antihero acting out in ways that Buffy could more easily forgive, or maybe would have had Calendar escape. Torturing Giles with the roses and Calendar's corpse put Angelus into a new realm of "good guy gone bad" I hadn't yet seen in a TV series.
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post #24 of 82
12/14/09 at 12:30pm
Sandbaggers 3rd episode: lets just say it puts that whole buffy "no one is safe" thing into perspective. Oh and on a character front the second episode make you know this is not your typical spy show.

Shield : Vic kills a cop right in the first episode

Wire: The finale in the first season which makes one wonder at the time "wait they actually have more seasons. How the hell do they do that?"
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post #25 of 82
12/14/09 at 12:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RathBandu View Post

Would-be game-changer: Zoey Bartlet getting kidnapped.
Yep. Should've been. Oh, what Sorkin and Schlamme could've done with that.

Also:

"I have a message. Lieutenant Colonel... Henry Blake's plane... was shot down... over the Sea of Japan. It spun in. There were no survivors."
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post #26 of 82
12/14/09 at 12:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan S~ View Post
"I have a message. Lieutenant Colonel... Henry Blake's plane... was shot down... over the Sea of Japan. It spun in. There were no survivors."
Shocking? Most definitely. Ballsy? Yep. A game changer? In the series itself? Ehh, not really.
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post #27 of 82
12/14/09 at 1:35pm
Would the "Three Men and Adena" episode of Homicide be considered a game-changer?

Steve Rhodes leaving and Jefferson D'Arcy coming in to Married with Children. That changed the dynamic of the show.
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post #28 of 82
12/14/09 at 1:36pm
Has there ever been anything said about what Sorkin was planning on doing with the Zoe Bartlett kidnapping storyline before?
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post #29 of 82
12/14/09 at 1:38pm
Maddie and David finally getting it on in Moonlighting. It changed the game all right. From the greatest basketball game ever to a bunch of hobos trying to rape each other.
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post #30 of 82
12/14/09 at 1:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HBarr View Post
Shocking? Most definitely. Ballsy? Yep. A game changer? In the series itself? Ehh, not really.
Totally game changing. While MASH did a good job of balancing humor with the dark stuff, the idea of one of their main characters not making it had never been truly addressed. Having an actor leave the show and giving him the sendoff that the audience wanted to see, only to yank the rug out and remind everybody it was war? I thought it was game changing.
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post #31 of 82
12/14/09 at 1:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by A-Pathetic View Post
Totally game changing. While MASH did a good job of balancing humor with the dark stuff, the idea of one of their main characters not making it had never been truly addressed. Having an actor leave the show and giving him the sendoff that the audience wanted to see, only to yank the rug out and remind everybody it was war? I thought it was game changing.
But it really didn't have that much of an impact on the series itself (save for a few later references). Which to me, lessened the overall impact of his death.
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post #32 of 82
12/14/09 at 2:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HBarr View Post
But it really didn't have that much of an impact on the series itself (save for a few later references). Which to me, lessened the overall impact of his death.
I'm not sure how main character deaths in other shows which remind the viewer that everybody is vulnerable would be considered game changing but not this one. I understand MASH doesn't have the geek quotient of Buffy, but would you actually be ok with people saying a character death on Buffy was game changing and this wasn't?
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post #33 of 82
12/14/09 at 2:33pm
I would say M*A*S*H's game changer was more the episode (s?) where Hawkeye had his breakdown. It went from lighthearted war comedy to interesting character analysis.
Rescue Me - Ryan is killed by a drunk driver
LOST - 75% of the episodes

And, of course,
Valerie - They killed Valerie.
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post #34 of 82
12/14/09 at 3:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by A-Pathetic View Post
I'm not sure how main character deaths in other shows which remind the viewer that everybody is vulnerable would be considered game changing but not this one. I understand MASH doesn't have the geek quotient of Buffy, but would you actually be ok with people saying a character death on Buffy was game changing and this wasn't?
I'm not overly familiar with Buffy. So I would hardly be qualified to determine whether a main death character had a lasting, game changing effect on the show.
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post #35 of 82
12/14/09 at 3:19pm
Jenny Calendar was on for around what, 9 episodes? Yes, it was a part of a great arc and surprising, but "ballsy game-changer?"
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post #36 of 82
12/14/09 at 3:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merriweather View Post
I dunno, Anya's death was pretty random in battle.
Anya died in the finale. I think finales are a bit different since there are less restrictions, and you don't have to deal with what you've changed.
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post #37 of 82
12/14/09 at 3:30pm
It's an easy one to agree with, but Lost - Through the Looking Glass is a shining example.


Also, shocked there's no mention of Twin Peaks yet. Revealing Laura Palmer's killer a few eps into Season 2 was insane. It ultimately ended up being a game-changer in terms of the show taking a dip in quality until right before the finale (even though I'm an apologist, and will take the shit for the few gems like Duchovny in drag). But if they'd executed what came after a little better, it couldn't been an awesome move.
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post #38 of 82
12/14/09 at 3:35pm
This might be a stretch, but Nate Fisher discovering he has a brain tumor at the end of Season 1 of Six Feet Under cast a shadow over the entire rest of the series. It directly affected many of the (often bad) decisions he made for the rest of the run. Not to mention that it eventually kills him.
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post #39 of 82
12/14/09 at 3:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcassady View Post
Jenny Calendar was on for around what, 9 episodes? Yes, it was a part of a great arc and surprising, but "ballsy game-changer?"
Like I said above, I think it changed how the show was perceived and just how far the writers were willing to go in making Angel evil, less so because of Calendar's admittedly marginal character. "Passions" changed the rules and tone for the entire series, even more than the immediately preceding Angel/Angelus parter. It's still among the most memorable scenes of either series some ten years after I first watched it.
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post #40 of 82
12/14/09 at 3:43pm
Picard being assimilated by the Borg SHOULD have been a game-changer, but three episodes into the next season he was pretty much over it. Until they needed him not to be over it in First Contact.
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post #41 of 82
12/14/09 at 3:44pm
This'd be the second thread for which this qualifies, but, Nina Myers killing Terri Bauer at the end of 24 Season 1. The series has spent 6 years trying to live up to the promise of that finale, that nothing about this show would play it safe.
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post #42 of 82
12/14/09 at 3:47pm
Mad Men - The whole show. It really just sets the bar for what an art form television can be. Although the foot thing has to be mentioned.

Arrested Development - The episode where they completely trash television audiences, executives and sitcom gimmicks, in a hilarious "if we go out, we go out blazing" episode where they satirize every last thing involved with their potential cancellation.

Seinfeld - While everyone agrees ending it on a clip show was a genuine head scratcher move, I genuinely love how dark, ballsy and cynical that ending was
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post #43 of 82
12/14/09 at 4:01pm
Most of these posts have been "shocking moments," not "ballsy game-changers." How can a series finale "change the game" when the game is over at the end of the hour?
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post #44 of 82
12/14/09 at 4:06pm
We haven't seen where it's gonna go but I would say the finale of this years Mad Men was a pretty serious game changer.
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post #45 of 82
12/14/09 at 4:19pm
Coach Taylor getting canned by the boosters.

In Wiseguy, David Strathairn electrocuting himself.
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post #46 of 82
12/14/09 at 5:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
Picard being assimilated by the Borg SHOULD have been a game-changer, but three episodes into the next season he was pretty much over it. Until they needed him not to be over it in First Contact.
I think the game changer would have been killing off Picard. Which I think was a very serious possibility since Stewart was considering leaving the series.

As long as we are talking Trek. The episode that introduced the Jem Hadar on DS9 should be considered a game changer as it was the very start of the Dominion War arc. The arc that would move the show into greatness.
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post #47 of 82
12/14/09 at 5:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HBarr View Post
Shocking? Most definitely. Ballsy? Yep. A game changer? In the series itself? Ehh, not really.
I was thinking more in terms of TV rather than the show itself. It changed how audiences expect departing actors to be treated.

In terms of the show it did add a sense of immediacy to life or death situations. It allowed them to ratchet up the tension because the audience wasn't sure if they would kill off another character. Particularly in situations where they knew the actor was leaving the show.
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post #48 of 82
12/14/09 at 5:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Subotai View Post
Coach Taylor getting canned by the boosters.
I knew I should have stayed away from this thread. It's my own damn fault.
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post #49 of 82
12/14/09 at 5:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan S~ View Post
I was thinking more in terms of TV rather than the show itself. It changed how audiences expect departing actors to be treated.
I can agree with you there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan S~ View Post
In terms of the show it did add a sense of immediacy to life or death situations. It allowed them to ratchet up the tension because the audience wasn't sure if they would kill off another character. Particularly in situations where they knew the actor was leaving the show.
Maybe if it had been more than a passing reference in a handful of episodes. To me, it lost it's efficiency since it really didn't impact the cast (effect any noticeable change in their motivations). To be honest, his death feels kind of cheap now when I look back on the series as a whole. They (the writers) really botched up a potentially great game-changer.
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post #50 of 82
12/14/09 at 6:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bendrix View Post
I knew I should have stayed away from this thread. It's my own damn fault.
Same here. I still have three more seasons of The Wire to watch. Alas.
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