Al Qaeda attack on Detroit Airliner - Page 2

Al-Qaida isn't a catch all term for terrorists, only for Sunni extremists who are inspired or trained by Al-Qaeda, whom they share a common world view with. It's only the general public that doesn't appear to be able to make the distinction. This guy appears to have been directly trained by AQAP, an al-Qaida franchise in Yemen who have direct ties to AQ core. Al-Qaida isn't just one organization anymore, there are various organizations that fall under the banner who subscribe to a common ideology. While they have varying regional goals they all have largely the same world view. It is important to note these cells are inspired by Al-Qaeda and would not likely exist if the global movement did not exist, or at a minimum would not have transnational aspirations. Anyone who doesn't think this isn't a movement doesn't really understand the underlying philosophy. It was precisely Abdullah Yussuf Azzam's goal to create this movement so that random dumbfucks around the globe could do these sorts of things. No one in the intelligence community forgets about other terrorist groups, such as Hizballah, who do have differing goals who are a lot more capable.

I agree, some of these security regulations are pretty stupid.

I'm more scared of mold in my home than I am of Reid, this Nigerian shitbag and other terrorists of their ilk.

Have any of you ever been to Detroit? This would have been a mercy bombing.

Im amazeed it took 2 pages for the first "detroit is a hellhole" joke to appear.

In all honesty, we were being nice to Detroit for the XMas season. I'm still trying to figure out why in the holy hell a plane was flying from the the Netherlands into Detroit. Do the Dutch have a fascination with shitty cars and creepy, desolate casinos?

Hey now, keep the Detroit animosity to yourself. I lived in Detroit (no, not 30 minutes outside of Detroit, but IN Detroit; was born and raised in Cleveland...my track record ain't that great) for around 9 years. And let me tell you, if you mind your own business and don't look at people in a funny way, you'll make it through the day just fine. Yeah, it's a shit hole, but a comfy, cozy shit hole.

That said, my plan is to get the hell out of Michigan in 2-3 years. Next stop: somewhere warm.

Lieberman calls for pre-emptive attack on Yemen.

Oh good.

Somehow I think advancing the prospect of such an attack does not advance the interests of the nation he took an oath to serve.

I love the way thats worded.

Great. I'm flying on Tuesday. I look forward to even more zany, irrelevant traveling restrictions. Its like these so-called terrorists know they can't bring on epic destruction, so they lower their aim squarely at awkward inconvenience.

Apparently you cant get out of your seat during the last hour of flight, have anything on your lap, and must keep your hands in plain sight at all times.

Oh boy, since that last war that Joe was so gung-ho about went SO FUCKING SWIMMINGLY.

Seriously, why does this asshole still hold office?

Why not just go Con Air and handcuff passengers' hands to the ceiling for the duration of the flight?

That is completely retarded. Time for high speed trains in this country, and now. Between that silliness and the TSA harassment squad, I don't know who in their right minds would want to get on a plane for domestic travel, if they had a high speed rail alternative

Why can't I have things on my lap? In the age of laptops, do they really expect passengers to put up with the "NOTHING ON YOUR LAP!!!!@!@4!" policy, now and forever, from this time forward? That is just crazy talk


For the last hour of the flight, you're to have your hands in plain sight at all times? I don't think my hands have spent an uninterrupted and unbroken hour in plain sight even once in the past 10 years. Now it's a feat expected of each and every Ario-commuter?

Why does Dubai have cooler trains than the country that popularized trains?



EDIT: I just thought I'd add that I went on a commuter train to NYC to see A STEADY RAIN, and frankly it reminded me of the train in CHILDREN OF MEN

A lot of good it did them:

The whole "last hour" thing is what really blows my mind.

To be honest, when I first heard of this incident one of the first questions that popped into my head was "why did this guy try this just as they were landing?"

Right, it's all just so mindless. It's like they think terrorists won't just try to light themselves on fire at one hour and one minute to wheels down instead.

That train station alone probably put Dubai in bankrupcy.

The terrorists are winning by making commerce and life more difficult by making these stupid rules go into place. So glad to know the Keystone Cops from the Bush era are still in place.

Yes, it's a gold plated train station. But we could build cheaper and faster trains than we have no, no doubt. Japan's and Europe's trains did not bankrupt them.

To be fair, there are a lot of challenges in bringing high speed rail to the United States. I support the issue, but you have to acknowledge that in Europe, you were able to have a lot of different countries help foot the bill to pay for rail. In the U.S., it's one nation, and even if you get Canada and Mexico in on it, it's still going to be very expensive. And Japan is way smaller than the US. Not to mention we sunk billions and billions of dollars into the highway system while Europe and Japan were working on rail transit, and you can't just abandon those. There are a lot of factors. It's a complex issue, and I hope Obama's plan to introduce corridors beyond what we have now on the East Coast/improve the ones we have are able to get off the ground.

Because terrorists would never target trains. Trains are nice and all, but I don't see what they have to do with this conversation.

It would take a decade just to get enviornmenatal clearances, land usage approval, and the rest of the bureaucratic hairball resolved, let alone construction of such a feat.

How long did it take to do that project in Boston that dropped a highway on that woman? Multiply that by the number of states and cities involved in this project....

The Chinese have the advantage. The guy at the top says build it, and everything else is of secondary importance, if any at all.

Rath, I have to go so I will keep this brief and only address a few quick points in your thoughtful post (that I will return to comment upon more later)

1) The highways were for the military, initially
2) We have abandoned them, for the most part. Our bridges, tunnels, and roads are positively third world in some parts of the country

Vivesector's point about getting clearances is a great one. In New York in particular, there's a huge chunk of state-protected land between the city and the capital, and the highways are often literally the only big thing running throught that area. (I used to live in the Catskills, and getting to and from NYC by train was a bitch.)

My guess? It's because the hole he was going to blow in the plane maybe wouldn't have been big enough to simply take it down, but while the plane was descending it could have created enough instability to make it crash.

Once again and even more slowly this time ...

The majority of Arabs in America (and we're talking well over 50% here) are Christians, not Muslims. Not that it should matter as additionally, the overwhelming majority of Arabs, regardless of their religious beliefs are law abiding citizens, in the US and the world in total.

I, as an Australian am not actually expected to know this.

This guy wasn't an Arab. What's your point?

Blowing it up over the ocean might have left it a mystery. Then there's maybe the matter of working up the nerve to blow yourself up.

I just wonder if they could have guaranteed taking it down over the ocean. My theory (based on just about no science) is that there was a chance the pilots could have brought the plane in if he had blown while at cruising altitude. They have more time to get control of the plane from that height. Descent's already the most dangerous part of the flight, and destabilizing the plane in this way would take it down.

Again, a no science theory simply cobbled together from flying too much.

The bomb was strapped to his balls. Procrastination on that count seems reasonable.

And there's also the possibility that he was hoping to cause additional casualties by crashing the plane over a city/town/airport.

And he's still alive?! I guess the joke's on him. I'll deal with the hassle of the new flying restrictions knowing that the bomber is alive enough to be prosecuted, sans testicles.

The entire city of Detroit should grab a gas canister and collectively throw itself off a mall balcony.

On CNN now, Al-Qaeda claims responsibility.

Naturally they are claiming responsibility. It makes them relevant (again).

On CNN now Al-Qaeda claims responsibility. They say this attempt was in retaliation for some US missile on Yemen

Whoops double post

Good times.

Yeah, science aint my bag baby, but I figured that opening a large hole in the plane at 35,000 feet would be more dangerous than at 10,000.

However, the aforementioned point about it being over a city makes sense too.

ETA I read somewhere that the amount of explosives he had on him was actually more than what Richard Reid had at the time. Maybe it was simply a case of procrastination?

This is a ludicrous statement. While there are some bad roads, the highway system itself remains extremely safe, convenient and in good condition. And do you realize the part states play in keeping roads up to par? Most decrepit roads and the like are due to states choosing not to raise or allocate the funds necessary. The US Highway system is, and remains to this day, one of the best things the US Govt ever designed and built. The way it connects the states and allows unimpeded travel is amazing.

Fixed!

Without question.

Pan Am Flight 103 was destroyed by a bomb that created a 20-inch hole in the plane. At 31,000 feet, traveling at roughly 500 miles per hour, the plane disintegrated almost immediately:

"Investigators believe that within three seconds of the explosion, the cockpit, fuselage, and No.3 engine were falling separately."

"A Scottish Fatal Accident Inquiry, which opened on 1 October 1990, heard that, when the cockpit broke off, tornado-force winds tore through the fuselage, tearing clothes off passengers and turning insecurely-fixed items like food and drink trolleys into lethal objects. Because of the sudden change in air pressure, the gases inside the passengers' bodies would have expanded to four times their normal volume, causing their lungs to swell and then collapse. People and objects not fixed down would have been blown out of the aircraft into the −46 °C (−50.8 °F) outside air, their 31,000-foot (9,400 m) fall lasting about two minutes."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_Am_Flight_103

(sorry the amount of info. I'm morbidly curious about plane crashes, and a friend's dad died on flight 103)


I suppose we'll never really know why the guy waited until he did, but the arguments presented here are sound - possibly more ground casualties, evidence left behind from not crashing into the ocean, procrastination (my fave).

Sorry to hear about your buddies dad. I tend to read up a lot on them simply because I have to wash down 2mg of xanax with a few beers in order to fly without soiling myself (Im all man otherwise, though...Ill show ya). You would think that its kinda counterproductive but I guess Im just backwards like that.

Jesus fucking Christ

They claimed responsibility for AA 587, which crashed in November 2001, but it was proven untrue.

Well big difference in this case no? Given that this guy was already suspected to be aligned with them and there is no accident involved.

Makes ya wanna book that cross country flight right now, don't it?

Off-topic: The other day I was reading up on Flight 811, where the cargo door opened at 22,000 feet resulting in explosive decompression that tore a huge hole in the plane and sucked out nine passengers. I had read somewhere that the victims probably lived through their descent into the ocean, but then I saw this in the Wikipedia article:

Cold comfort, but comfort nonetheless. The truly amazing thing is that the pilots were able to land the plane; the NTSB ran a simulation afterward and were unable to land successfully.



Sorry for the slight derail.

ETA: My initial post of a 2.5 minute fall of 22000 feet was way off, it's probably closer to 35 seconds.

They recently concluded that the Air France flight crashed in 1 piece off of Rio. No oxygen masks deployed...nothing. Sorry to be a part of turning this into the "How much would it suck to be in a plane crash" thread, but dear God that would have sucked.

"EXCLUSIVE: Photos of the Northwest Airlines Bomb"
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/northw...ory?id=9436297