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Confessions of a Sopranos Virgin.

post #1 of 58
12/29/09 at 9:26pm
Thread Starter 
We have one for both West Wing and the Wire, so we do for The Sopranos now too. I'm not a complete virgin, I've seen episodes here and there but they were always scattered and out of context of the whole series. For Christmas I got the box set, and am now on episode twelve of season one. I'm loving it so far and am eagerly awaiting the rest of it.

The one thing that kinda blows is that growing up during this decade the Sopranos played such a huge part of the culture that I'm already aware of a lot of what happens and am very familiar with the finale. But it's not about the twists and turns but enjoying the ride, and that's what I plan to do.
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post #2 of 58
12/29/09 at 9:35pm
I was familiar with the ending and it didn't hurt my enjoyment at all.

The show is amazing even if the last season is a bit of a letdown compared to the previous five. I know people that resent how well-known The Sopranos is compared to The Wire and that seems to have led to them bashing the show but it is a great show in its own right. This is one example where the property is more than deserving of the hype.
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post #3 of 58
12/29/09 at 9:57pm
Untrue. The first half of season six might drag a bit, but the second half of it (6b or whatever its called) is as good as the show ever was, and in some cases I'd dare say better. Might even be the strongest consecutive run of episodes the show ever had.
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post #4 of 58
12/29/09 at 10:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis Wolcott View Post
Untrue. The first half of season six might drag a bit, but the second half of it (6b or whatever its called) is as good as the show ever was, and in some cases I'd dare say better. Might even be the strongest consecutive run of episodes the show ever had.
Agreed, although I have a special affection for Season Three for its trifecta of Employee of the Month, University and Pine Barrens.
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post #5 of 58
12/29/09 at 10:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis Wolcott View Post
Untrue. The first half of season six might drag a bit, but the second half of it (6b or whatever its called) is as good as the show ever was, and in some cases I'd dare say better. Might even be the strongest consecutive run of episodes the show ever had.
Fair enough, I probably should have specified. My problems with the sixth season are mostly in that first half. I keep forgetting it was separated, like Kill Bill it just became one whole season in my memory.
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post #6 of 58
12/29/09 at 10:42pm
The big problem is that season six starts the way a regular TV show's season would hang its finale on. That entire season is still very good, but the big climax happened early.
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post #7 of 58
12/29/09 at 11:33pm
I don't really think it's fair to compare this to The Wire, both shows exist in the criminal world but that's where the comparison ends.

I think it's interesting that the character of Tony Soprano was kind of elevated to a kind of anti-hero by the audience then when he was revealed as the sociopathic bully he really is, they felt cheated in the last episode.
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post #8 of 58
12/30/09 at 2:23pm
Funny you started this I'm getting Season 1 in the mail from Netflix today. I've watched a couple episodes here and there and obviously know the ending but I'm still pretty psyched.
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post #9 of 58
12/30/09 at 2:33pm
Tony was always a sociopathic bully. I've said this a bunch on the boards lately, but a large chunk of the audience for Sopranos simply didn't get the show. The people who rooted for tony for six and a half seasons, only to decide the only way it had to end was with Tony's death -- thus making him pay for his crimes, and absolving the viewer of guilt for rooting for the bad guy -- missed the point.
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post #10 of 58
12/30/09 at 2:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RathBandu View Post
Tony was always a sociopathic bully. I've said this a bunch on the boards lately, but a large chunk of the audience for Sopranos simply didn't get the show. The people who rooted for tony for six and a half seasons, only to decide the only way it had to end was with Tony's death -- thus making him pay for his crimes, and absolving the viewer of guilt for rooting for the bad guy -- missed the point.
Agreed, a lot of people seemed to think that the series finale was going to address some of the show's loose ends, even though that was never the main concern of the show. What show were these people watching over the course of 6 seasons?
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post #11 of 58
12/30/09 at 3:07pm
People are still pissed the Russian from "Pine Barrens" never came back, and that was after Chase had repeatedly said he wasn't coming back.
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post #12 of 58
12/30/09 at 3:14pm
My favorite were the people who tried to apply comic-book logic to Adrianna's death. Because, you know, they didn't actually see her get shot.
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post #13 of 58
12/30/09 at 3:18pm
Or not applying logic to it -- if Silvio had no problem shooting Big Pussy, why on earth would he have qualms about shooting Adrianna?
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post #14 of 58
12/30/09 at 3:23pm
Actually, if you'll recall, Silvio was the most hesitant about taking Pussy out.

Guess its spoilers ahoy here then?
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post #15 of 58
12/30/09 at 3:25pm
You guys might want to block out those spoilers so Andrew can come back here to discuss each season as he views them.

For me, the first few seasons were my favorite because as a psychologist, I love how they explored Tony's relationship with his mother, who is a raging bitch. As the seasons progress, we see many opportunities for Tony to learn from his mistakes and grow as a person but he chooses to throw those opportunities away. So while I understand Tony's motivations and can see how he developed into the person that he is, I agree with Rath that its hard to empathize with the guy. He is in every sense of the word a sociopath.
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post #16 of 58
12/30/09 at 3:29pm
I will honor the spoiler request, since folks were pretty good about it in the Wire Virgin thread.

You have to consider how much of the overall plan changed once Nancy Marchand and therefore Livia Soprano died. Seems like a lot of long-term storylines got scuttled by that.
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post #17 of 58
12/30/09 at 8:39pm
Thread Starter 
So I finished the first season last night and I'm now onto the second. It was definitely a great finale and that scene where Tony goes to take care of his mother was the stuff of legends. I have to tell you I think my favorite scene was where Carmela confronts Father Phil about his behavior. I loved the fact that she tells him exactly what we as an audience have wanted to say for a while, but her motivation is jealousy and pettiness.
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post #18 of 58
12/30/09 at 11:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RathBandu View Post
Tony was always a sociopathic bully. I've said this a bunch on the boards lately, but a large chunk of the audience for Sopranos simply didn't get the show. The people who rooted for tony for six and a half seasons, only to decide the only way it had to end was with Tony's death -- thus making him pay for his crimes, and absolving the viewer of guilt for rooting for the bad guy -- missed the point.
I can understand, to a certain extent, why the audience latched on to Tony, he could be very charming when he wanted to be and his mother was presented as a scheming bitch, it's only when Livia was gone that Tony had no-one to blame for his behaviour. It's only towards the end do we see how evil Tony really is but there are definitely moments along the way.

Tony got to nail some of the most attractive women.
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post #19 of 58
12/30/09 at 11:50pm
I'll always cherish The Sopranos because of the music it showcased at the end of the credits. Always some left field, yet perfect song, that profoundly articulates the events of the episode better than any character can hope to do on their own--while setting the tone of what's to come. I even think that's why I revisited an episode when it would first repeat, or try to catch any future showing while the episode was still fresh. I'm even crazy enough to think that it's subliminal.

And the influences Sopranos unabashedly wore on it's sleeve were always interesting; from Scorsese to Fellini to Jackie Gleason. When it seemed to be a difficult episode to watch, thinking about what the show was trying to homage(I know, I know)motivated me to stay for the duration.

Also: Sopranos is neck and neck with Twin Peaks when it came to dream sequences(Fellini). For better or worse, David Chase was unafraid to challenge audiences.
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post #20 of 58
12/31/09 at 11:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Woods View Post
I have to tell you I think my favorite scene was where Carmela confronts Father Phil about his behavior. I loved the fact that she tells him exactly what we as an audience have wanted to say for a while, but her motivation is jealousy and pettiness.
The most compelling parts of the show are when characters do the right things for all the wrong reasons and the wrong things for reasons you can sympathize with. The way the series jars its audience's moral compass nearly every episode is nothing short of masterful.
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post #21 of 58
12/31/09 at 10:37pm
I think one of the most powerful episodes has to be the one where Tony Soprano's therapist gets raped and decides at the end not to tell Tony Soprano about it. The way she said "no" was heartbreaking.
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post #22 of 58
12/31/09 at 11:07pm
My favorite reveal in the series is Tony's IQ. It's something you could always observe, but to have it confirmed so concretely- there's just another sickening layer that it adds to everything.
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post #23 of 58
1/1/10 at 3:29am
dynamotv: I must say I find your use of the word "heartbreaking" interesting, not so much because the plotline isn't hearbtreaking in itself, but because that particular moment seems to me to be much more than that. It's in that "No." that Melfi, despite all her vicarious thrill of treating a mobster, that she separates herself from virtually every other character in the show, not even in being "righteous" or being "moral", but in the simple, moment-at-a-time choice of "not taking the easiest" road, even if she wants. What's great about it is how, because the series pretty much makes us complicit with Tony, we approach that scene with a "hope" that Melfi will in fact tell him, so the rapist is totally killed. It's that sort of morally dissonant response that makes The Sopranos great, in my view, that either we feel letdown when something arguably immoral didn't happen, or when events that prove these characters are fairly fucked up feel like victories to us.
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post #24 of 58
1/1/10 at 4:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
I will honor the spoiler request, since folks were pretty good about it in the Wire Virgin thread.

You have to consider how much of the overall plan changed once Nancy Marchand and therefore Livia Soprano died. Seems like a lot of long-term storylines got scuttled by that.
Given that Chase's initial impetus for the show was his own difficult relationship with his mother (and that HBO, or someone, suggested the gangster setting), I think that's likely very true.
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post #25 of 58
1/1/10 at 5:59am
The gangster setting wasn't suggested by anyone. It was always part of the thing. If I recall correctly, it was a movie project Chase was developing, about a gangster in therapy, talking about his family issues and eventually the therapist was supposed to connect that perhaps the one trying to kill the gangster was the gangster's mother. Obviously elements of that feature on season 1, and it obviously has a lot to do with Chase's mother, but the gangster angle was there from square one.

I gotta say tho, in a weird sense, that probably only makes sense specifically for the Sopranos, Nancy Marchand's death probably contributes for the better to the show. It's my understanding that she was supposed to die on season 1, but Nancy asked David Chase to keep her working and he obliged, so really the death of the mother figure was always there as an idea. And having it happen the way it happened, eliminating an already "planted" plot (the testimony over the airplane ticket thing) and eventually the way the show moved on from it, is perfectly consistent with the show's MO regarding lots of other potential plotlines (see: fbi's lamp) as well as the show's treatment of other character's deaths. Also, in the end, I think its more resonant and "accurate" to have, even years after her death, Tony Soprano still be unsuccesfully dealing with his mother issues, even talking about it with AJ's therapist near the show's end. I think that's a more accurate portrayal than any other the show could've done otherwise, particularly in a show that's pretty much about the impossibility of change.
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post #26 of 58
1/1/10 at 6:44am
I posted this in another thread but it's equally valid here as an assessment of Chase's impact on television and pop culture among other things.

http://www.salon.com/entertainment/m...2/30/seitz_no1
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post #27 of 58
1/2/10 at 12:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renn Brown View Post
My favorite reveal in the series is Tony's IQ. It's something you could always observe, but to have it confirmed so concretely- there's just another sickening layer that it adds to everything.
When was the revealed? Season 1 or 2?

BTW: Anyone feel that season 5 was the worst season(except for Adrianna getting whacked.)?

I felt that the sopranos would have ended better if they skipped Gay Vito getting whacked in Season 6A and went straight to Season 6B with Cleaver?

BTW: I also thought what happened to Jr's character in the later seasons hurt the show. I always thought Uncle Jr. was one of the best characters on the show. However we wouldn't have had this scene during the series finale.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq3XS...om=PL&index=14
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post #28 of 58
1/2/10 at 9:49pm
Thread Starter 
I started the 3rd season and I'm loving this Peter Gunn/Police mix-up.
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post #29 of 58
1/2/10 at 10:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RathBandu View Post
Tony was always a sociopathic bully. I've said this a bunch on the boards lately, but a large chunk of the audience for Sopranos simply didn't get the show. The people who rooted for tony for six and a half seasons, only to decide the only way it had to end was with Tony's death -- thus making him pay for his crimes, and absolving the viewer of guilt for rooting for the bad guy -- missed the point.
I think that, at least partly, those people - and what Chase put them through - was the point.
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post #30 of 58
1/2/10 at 10:15pm
I agree, especially when you're talking about Chase's intentions. If you want to go big picture about it, you could make the argument that the Sopranos is as much about our infatuation with the mob as it is about the mob itself. The show's been heralded as the third act to the pop culture mob trilogy that started with The Godfather and continued with Goodfellas, but these reprehensible characters fetishize and idolize Michael Corleone as much as we do. In the end, Michael Corleone and Henry Hill may have come from a better time, a time the characters on Sopranos wax nostalgic about, but they were probably just as ruthless and cold and sociopathic as Tony.
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post #31 of 58
1/2/10 at 10:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Woods View Post
I started the 3rd season and I'm loving this Peter Gunn/Police mix-up.
My absolute favorite moment. Easily.
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post #32 of 58
1/3/10 at 3:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RathBandu View Post
I agree, especially when you're talking about Chase's intentions. If you want to go big picture about it, you could make the argument that the Sopranos is as much about our infatuation with the mob as it is about the mob itself. The show's been heralded as the third act to the pop culture mob trilogy that started with The Godfather and continued with Goodfellas, but these reprehensible characters fetishize and idolize Michael Corleone as much as we do. In the end, Michael Corleone and Henry Hill may have come from a better time, a time the characters on Sopranos wax nostalgic about, but they were probably just as ruthless and cold and sociopathic as Tony.
I think it goes deeper than mob infatuation. The way I see it, the mob mostly serves as a way to rise the stakes on screen, but deep down its really about the little day to day selfish and amoral decisions we all make, which I think its part of the reason why a lot of people, at the end, want to wash themselves off Tony. Time and time again, the show was filled with little reminders or riffs on the theme of how most of these people take the easiest road, to the point of even creating small scenes like Kennedy/Heidi in the car, that are precisely about it. Of course, part of the greatness of the show is that it never was narrow-minded when it comes to theme, so, of course there's stuff about mob/violence infatuation and media, as well as many other things, but I think that, primarily, the mob ended up being used as a way to make those little choices narratively matter more, than if its just something any of us does on a daily basis.
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post #33 of 58
1/3/10 at 3:52am
Thread Starter 
Holy shit! Did I just see Perez Hilton?
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post #34 of 58
1/3/10 at 5:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rourkefan View Post
When was the revealed? Season 1 or 2?

BTW: Anyone feel that season 5 was the worst season(except for Adrianna getting whacked.)?
Unless I am very much mistaken, it's in the final episode of Season 5, very near the end of the episode.

I vehemently disagree about Season 5. Also, while the ending of the series ended up being the challenging, historical, culturally resonating, and simply brilliant ending the show needed and deserved... had the end of the 5th season been the shows finale, I could have handled it.
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post #35 of 58
1/6/10 at 12:21am
Thread Starter 
I just watched Pine Barrens, which I had seen before but was much funnier because I have a better understanding of the show. I couldn't help but think of my dad the whole time because it's his favorite episode.

Whoever thought of Paulie and Chris sucking on ketchup packages is a genius.
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post #36 of 58
6/23/10 at 3:08pm
So, I went and bought the entire run on DVD. Just started working through it this week. I started the first episode on Sunday, just about to watch the finale of the first season. Just in love with the show. What's amazing is that I only just figured out that Dr. Melfie is Karen from Goodfellas.

I just recognised her voice and IMDB'd her and it was a real 'holy shit' moment for me. Love the writing in the thing, so much humour and style combined with a real hard edge. My only criticism is that when they're shooting certain exterior shots they use weird filters, like they've increased the image temperature or something.
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post #37 of 58
6/23/10 at 3:50pm
Also. Gandolfini is one of the few actors I know who feels genuinely phsyically imposing. His beatdown of Arquette in True Romance and his threatening Melfi in the Season One finale are amazing demonstrations of how terrifying he is as a presence.
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post #38 of 58
6/23/10 at 9:29pm
OK, here's my big Soprano's question. Does the name "Pussy" mean something different in this Italian sub-culture? It's so fucking odd just seeing Carmella or even reporters on the news saying "Pussy" like it's nothing. What's with the Pussy thing?
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post #39 of 58
6/23/10 at 9:46pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Pussy_Bonpensiero
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post #40 of 58
6/23/10 at 10:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Ripoll View Post
OK, here's my big Soprano's question. Does the name "Pussy" mean something different in this Italian sub-culture? It's so fucking odd just seeing Carmella or even reporters on the news saying "Pussy" like it's nothing. What's with the Pussy thing?
pussy = cat = cat bugular
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post #41 of 58
6/23/10 at 10:21pm
And everyone knows that history? From Carmella to the reporters on TV?
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post #42 of 58
6/23/10 at 10:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Ripoll View Post
And everyone knows that history? From Carmella to the reporters on TV?
history is unimportant. all that matters is that's his name to the Soprano crew. Everyone calls him that.

Larry Boy for instance. Everyone calls him Larry Boy, even tho his last name isn't Boy.

Nicknames seem to be a big thing for many mob crews. Muscles Maranara, Larry Boy, Little Pussy, Big Pussy, Pauly Walnuts, Bobby Bacala, Johnny Sack, hesh, Phillue Spoons, Doc, and even Tony's Dad, Johnny Boy.

some have meanings, some are just abbreviations
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post #43 of 58
6/23/10 at 10:29pm
My point is, you can't say pussy on network TV. Not during the news. And a lot of other characters who would find that name weird and vulgar say it without batting an eye. Not a giggle. Nothing.

It's not a big deal, just something that always bothered me.

While we're on topic of things I don't understand, what's a "No Show"? I could never figure out exactly what no shows and no works meant.
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post #44 of 58
6/23/10 at 10:32pm
no show mean you don't show up to work and get paid

no work means, you show up but sit in the lawn chair.

all has to do with the construction union pay.
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post #45 of 58
6/24/10 at 12:21am
I haven't posted on this board for a long time, but I have still been lurking and reading. I thought the Sopranos was the best tv show ever (at least before I saw the Wire), especially the first 3 seasons. Something I would have like to have seen was a throwback season that had Uncle Jr. and Johnny Boy, followed them around and show their hijinx.
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post #46 of 58
6/28/10 at 4:23pm
Catching the girlfriend up on this show and giving me an excuse to re-watch it has been extremely enjoyable. I haven't watched any of it since the night of the finale, and the thing I'm finding the weirdest is watching characters who I know survive deep into the series, only to get killed off in the last couple episodes (Christopher, Bacala, Syl getting shot).

When people got aced early on and the show continued without them, you really felt the impact of not having them there and even missed having them around (season three is all about Pussy's impact on everyone). For the later whackings, they got killed and then the show ended, they didn't have the drawn out hurt factor permeating throughout the rest of the series. It's strange, it's just a different way for me to view the series and it's stuff like this and being able to watch episodes again from different perspectives that will always keep this series relevant and rewarding.

Also, Patsy will always be my favorite ancillary character.
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post #47 of 58
7/26/10 at 2:36pm
Before I started watching the show I heard a lot of people bitching about how much they hate Carmela, halfway through Season 4 and I don't get it. At all. She's one of the more interesting characters on the show and she's just as layered and multifaceted as any other character.
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post #48 of 58
7/26/10 at 11:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Marshall View Post
Before I started watching the show I heard a lot of people bitching about how much they hate Carmela, halfway through Season 4 and I don't get it. At all. She's one of the more interesting characters on the show and she's just as layered and multifaceted as any other character.
Well, it's quite easy to hate her if you hate women altogether, which at this point is my one and only theory on the matter. For sure, I think she's the MVP and I wouldn't have an objection if someone argued Edie Falco was the strongest actor on the show, but if you are only watching the show to see a couple violent scenes a week, you might miss all her work.
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post #49 of 58
7/27/10 at 12:48am
I thought the general consensus in that thread on TV wives was that it's because Carmela, in terms of the character's influence and simple screentime, moves us away from the vicarious thrills of seeing the bad guy do bad shit all the time?

Of course, on The Sopranos, it's a little murkier than The Shield/Mad Men/Breaking Bad, because with the exception of Melfi, pretty much every characters' behavior merits being hated.
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post #50 of 58
7/27/10 at 12:42pm
I've never heard hate for Carmela myself, but during my recent re-watch I've realised she is one of the most interesting and complex characters and that Falco was probably the best actor on the show along with Gandolfini.

I also realised just how horrible a person Tony is, I know he's a sociopathic gangster but I first watched the show as a teenager so there was a lot of, 'cool gangsters!'. But now I just fucking hate Tony - vindictive, petty, massively hypocritical (particularly about his constant pining for the honourable 'good old days' of the mob), and selfish. His treatment of Carm and AJ in particular rankles me, I'm pretty amazed that so many people still idolise him.
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