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A question from a Firefly virgin - Page 2

post #51 of 86
1/12/10 at 4:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Prankster View Post
Sadly, no. I don't know why, but they're all written by this guy named Brett Matthews who doesn't seem to have much talent, and they tend to be about as generic as you can imagine.

Although oddly, I've heard a rumour that Patton Oswalt, of all people, has been writing a Firefly comic.
That's a damn shame, since I thought Whedon had written them. Oswalt writing one doesn't surprise me as much due to both his appearances on Whedon's "Dollhouse" (which I've heard is some of his best work) and the fact that he's possibly the biggest geek celebrity in the business aside from Seth Green.

Also, glad to see you're still loving the show, Harley. "You turn on ANY of my crew, you turn on me!" is definitely one of the best moments of the show, and Fillion is quite scary when he amps up his rage. Another good moment like that is in "War Stories" when he growls, "You wanna meet the real me now?"
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post #52 of 86
1/12/10 at 5:16pm
One of the similarly great Mal lines is in Serenity when Inara says something about fighting a war he already lost and Mal says "when I'm fighting a war you'll know it" or something similar.
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post #53 of 86
1/12/10 at 5:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarleyQuinn22 View Post
I've been watching episodes all day long. I knew I was infatuated with this show during the pilot when Mal tells Simon that Kaylee's dead when she isn't (that scene where they all stand around laughing their heads off KILLED me). I knew I was officially into it when Mal kicked the guy into the engine, but holy shit I am officially madly in love with this show now that I've gotten to disc 3 of the box set. Just when I thought these episodes had to start getting bad sometime ("Our Mrs. Reynolds" and "Jaynestown" were outstanding, in my view) they actually get better. "Out of Gas" was genuinely touching. I especially loved how Mal and Kaylee met, and that shot at the end of Mal looking at Serenity for the first time honestly made me go "aww". "Aww" for a ship as if it's a human being. Unreal. It actually took me a second viewing to catch that Wash is giving his blood to Mal at the end when he says "you've got a thing in your arm". That was realy touching that Mal's laying there with a hole in his stomach and the first thing that he can think to say to Wash is "Are you okay? You've got a thing in your arm." And the end of "Ariel"...I could rave about this episode for ages. I've been waiting on them to finally pull the trigger on Jayne being a turncoat, and when he ended up unwittingy saving the day, I thought that the show would leave it there, would leave it with Jayne having to hide what he'd done and basically getting away with it. Mal hitting him with the wrench made me jump, and I truly believed that Mal was going to let Jayne die. I don't think he's ever been that furious, and when he said "when you turn on my crew, you turn on me. You did it to ME!", it was some of Nathan's best work on the show. The look of pure fury on his face was something else. You can really feel the affection that these people have for each other. Most shows force this sort of camaraderie down your throat and it feels like a bunch of people standing around pretending to like each other, but it's so believable here.

I've got four episodes to go, and I'm torn between excitement to see what's next and absolute sadness to see it end. Most shows take years to get me to love them so much. This show got me in mere hours. Way to go, Joss!
If you're anything like me the second to last episode is going to be something of a gutpunch. That's essentially the shows funeral, because it's the last they filmed, and even watching it the first time without an idea of what was happening with Fox and Whedon the episode just feels overwhelmingly sad.

Serenity was a massive disappointment for me personally but this thread is making me want to break out the TV series DVDs and go through them again.
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post #54 of 86
1/12/10 at 5:21pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Spider View Post
Also, glad to see you're still loving the show, Harley. "You turn on ANY of my crew, you turn on me!" is definitely one of the best moments of the show, and Fillion is quite scary when he amps up his rage. Another good moment like that is in "War Stories" when he growls, "You wanna meet the real me now?"
YES! That's darkest I've seen Fillion go, and it was a pretty scary sight. I'm quickly becoming a Fillion fangirl. I watch Castle just to see him, and I recently saw Waitress for the first time, which he's great in. Why is he not a bigger star? Good Lord, I'm in love with the guy! I'm going to watch some more Firefly tonight. I might even finish it, and then watch Serenity tomorrow. I sort of wish that I hadn't seen Serenity before I watched this, since I know the big two deaths going in, but this time, those deaths are going to hurt. A LOT.
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post #55 of 86
1/12/10 at 5:31pm
They definitely hurt a lot more once you've seen the show especially Shepard Books.
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post #56 of 86
1/12/10 at 6:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarleyQuinn22 View Post
YES! That's darkest I've seen Fillion go, and it was a pretty scary sight. I'm quickly becoming a Fillion fangirl. I watch Castle just to see him, and I recently saw Waitress for the first time, which he's great in. Why is he not a bigger star? Good Lord, I'm in love with the guy! I'm going to watch some more Firefly tonight. I might even finish it, and then watch Serenity tomorrow. I sort of wish that I hadn't seen Serenity before I watched this, since I know the big two deaths going in, but this time, those deaths are going to hurt. A LOT.
Count me in as a Fillion fanboy; the guy's just so good in everything he does, live action or animated (he's done some terrific voicework in stuff like JLU, the animated Wonder Woman movies as well as videogames like Jade Empire).

As far as Serenity goes, I actually ended up watching it BEFORE I saw the series, though I had a general idea of what it was about and who the characters were, so I went through a reversal of how you're going to feel watching the movie. After watching the series, I appreciate the movie even more now, especially since it's still a very personal story despite the larger stakes and upgraded action/special effects. And Chiwetel Ejiofor is one of the best, most curious "villains" in recent memory.
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post #57 of 86
1/12/10 at 6:48pm
If you've got four episodes left, can I actually recommend a different viewing order than the discs present? When the show hit DVD, Whedon mixed up the final episodes so as to end at Objects in Space -- but that wasn't the originally intended finale. The episodes were supposed to play like this:

Heart of Gold
Objects in Space
Trash
The Message

I'd recommend watching them that way -- as originally intended -- because The Message proves to be a really emotional finale.
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post #58 of 86
1/12/10 at 6:55pm
The Message wasn't intended as a finale either. It was just the last ep filmed.

I say go with the disc order. That way you don't end on a bummer.
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post #59 of 86
1/12/10 at 7:10pm
Yeah, it was never set up as the end of the show, but neither was Objects in Space. I just think The Message makes for a much more emotional finale. Also, it fixes a continuity gaffe that happens if you watch OiS last.
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post #60 of 86
1/12/10 at 7:39pm
The Message definitely feels like 'the end' of the series. I love that episode. I also love the music, surprised they never released a full soundtrack for the show because I bet the browncoats would have eaten it up.
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post #61 of 86
1/15/10 at 4:51pm
Thread Starter 
Jesus, this is a fucking bummer. I've got one episode left. Just one.

I almost don't want to watch
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post #62 of 86
1/15/10 at 5:20pm
Which ep did you save for last?
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post #63 of 86
1/15/10 at 5:20pm
Oh but it's a great episode of go out on. Early is an awesome foe for the gang to take one and it ends on a great note.
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post #64 of 86
1/15/10 at 5:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarleyQuinn22 View Post
I'm quickly becoming a Fillion fangirl.
I can't recall if you mentioned these, but the "complete Fillion" also includes (among many others) his stint as the wonderfully evil Caleb on Buffy, Season 7 and the delightfully cement-headed superhero Captain Hammer in Joss' Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog.

And, of course, he's the sheriff in Slither, which is a great horror/monster flick with touches of humor reminiscent of Tremors. In that film, he maybe gets the most characteristically Fillion line of all, as he reflects on the horrors that are overtaking his little community: "My easy-going nature is gettin' sorely fuckin' tested."

I know there's been talk of remaking The Rockford Files, and while that's a crap idea, if anyone could recapture Garner's combination of cranky exasperation and good humor, it's Fillion.
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post #65 of 86
1/15/10 at 5:41pm
Also, if you remembered to tape it he was great on Drive. Bonus appearance from Amy Acker.
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post #66 of 86
1/15/10 at 5:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerhead View Post
Also, if you remembered to tape it he was great on Drive. Bonus appearance from Amy Acker.
Yeah, I hesitated to mention that one since it's not generally available.

Also, it was kinda stupid, but that's beside the point. It was still fun.
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post #67 of 86
1/15/10 at 7:42pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerhead View Post
Which ep did you save for last?

I thought about doing the out of order deal that Dark Shape suggested, but I finally decided to just go with the disc order, so I have Objects in Space left. I think I'm gonna go ahead and watch it tonight. I'm really glad that I didn't watch The Message last, because that would have been a major downer. Great episode, but that was too sad, especially that final voiceover. I'm gonna go back after I watch OiS and watch the order that Dark Shape suggested to see the difference. It was pretty uncomfortable to watch since, from what my Browncoat buddy told me, that scene where Mal, Inara, and Zoe are sitting at the table laughing about the mustauche story was shot right after they found out the show would be no more.

It's nuts how the smallest things on this show just get to me. The one thing that sticks out to me more than anything in The Message is Jayne, the most crass character I think I've ever seen, solemnly removing that absurd hat both times that you hear that recording play.
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post #68 of 86
1/16/10 at 4:02am
Thread Starter 
Well, that was weird.

So I watched Objects in Space. AWESOME episode. Early was great, and that scene where he threatens to rape Kaylee just broke my heart. When he said "have you ever been raped?", I literally jumped out of my chair and rewound the DVD immediately to make sure I'd heard that shit straight. I was shocked beyond belief. She looks so helpless and terrified, and as a woman myself, I can't imagine a worse threat. That shot of River floating down into Mal's arms put the biggest shit-eating grin on my face. The series is great, and I can't wait to go and watch it again. So, I figure that I should watch Serenity right after to see if my perspective of that film has changed now that I saw the show.

Boy, did it ever. Before, I found it entertaining. Now, it's infuriating.

1) The music. Why the hell didn't they have the show's score here? I really missed it. Did they think that the music wouldn't appeal to a broad audience or something? The generic score diminishes some of the movie for me now.

2) I actually enjoyed the episodes more than the movie, plot-wise. I don't know how to explain it, but I think some of the intimacy that I loved about the show got lost on the big screen. The chemistry is still there, but some of the charm is absent. If I had to pick between watching Objects in Space or Serenity, I'd watch Objects in Space. Now, if that Operative had been Early, holy shit! I think the problem is that the show had 14 episodes to get me into these people's heads. Some eps were more centered around certain people and they had hours to be fleshed out. Here, that time is 80% "River's fucking crazy" and 20% Alliance stuff. I know River's story is interesting to some people, but personally, I'm more interested in just about everyone else on that ship, so spending so much time on her got a little dull to me. Her fight scenes are cool and all, but...meh. I'm not really invested in her or Simon, so...oh well.

I thought I'd like the movie more now that I have the full backstory, but the opposite happened. Bummer. The good stuff is still good. The space battle are great. Nathan's Nathan But I think that in trying to broaden it up for the uninitiated, they lost some of that spark that made the show so appealing. I'll stick with the show. I'm really glad that I watched it, even if I'm over seven years behind all the other Browncoats.
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post #69 of 86
1/16/10 at 1:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarleyQuinn22
Early was great, and that scene where he threatens to rape Kaylee just broke my heart. When he said "have you ever been raped?", I literally jumped out of my chair and rewound the DVD immediately to make sure I'd heard that shit straight. I was shocked beyond belief. She looks so helpless and terrified, and as a woman myself, I can't imagine a worse threat.
Easily, for me, the scariest fucking scene written by/in a Joss Whedon show.
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post #70 of 86
1/16/10 at 4:25pm
Actually, he doesn't threaten her (directly). He just says "Ever been raped?", which is somehow just as horrible in the way it implies that he knows the answer to that question.
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post #71 of 86
1/16/10 at 5:52pm
After he asks her that question, he does threaten her that it will be unpleasant(I don't recall the exact quote) if she doesn't help him.
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post #72 of 86
1/16/10 at 6:12pm
Must have blocked that out.

Nobody writes 'crazy' like Whedon. The "Are you Alliance/Am I a lion?" bit is unnerving.
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post #73 of 86
1/16/10 at 7:24pm
The thing that sticks with me the most about Early is Richard Brooks' astonishing performance; as good as the writing is, I don't think it would've worked quite as well without Brooks. That moment where he says "Maybe I've always been here..." as if he's not sure he hasn't been (Whedon loves this too, according to the commentary) is one of my favorite acting moments in all of television.
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post #74 of 86
1/18/10 at 3:49pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by McIrish View Post
After he asks her that question, he does threaten her that it will be unpleasant(I don't recall the exact quote) if she doesn't help him.
I don't think I'll ever forget it. He says that if she doesn't help him, "Your body is forfeit". Horrifying, and it's even scarier due to Jewel Staite's performance in that scene. God, I was near tears watching her face.
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post #75 of 86
1/24/10 at 3:33pm
So I rewatched the series, with an intent to rewatching the film which I HATED at the time, and I've got to say that Objects in Space may be the finest thing that Whedon's ever done. I just love that episode so much, everything from the visuals, to the music, to the performances are amazing and it really showcased what the show could have become if it had lasted.

Still interested in how I'm going to take to Serenity.
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post #76 of 86
1/24/10 at 5:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Marshall View Post
So I rewatched the series, with an intent to rewatching the film which I HATED at the time, and I've got to say that Objects in Space may be the finest thing that Whedon's ever done. I just love that episode so much, everything from the visuals, to the music, to the performances are amazing and it really showcased what the show could have become if it had lasted.

Still interested in how I'm going to take to Serenity.
I would go in with lowered expectations. I didn't feel much different watching Serenity after I watched the series than I did before. You do feel the death scenes a little more but as a movie, it's one of the lesser episodes of the series.
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post #77 of 86
1/24/10 at 7:14pm
I just wish that I had a 2.35:1 TV so that the movie could be bigger onscreen than the show.
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post #78 of 86
1/24/10 at 9:03pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeb View Post
I can't recall if you mentioned these, but the "complete Fillion" also includes (among many others) his stint as the wonderfully evil Caleb on Buffy, Season 7 and the delightfully cement-headed superhero Captain Hammer in Joss' Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog.

And, of course, he's the sheriff in Slither, which is a great horror/monster flick with touches of humor reminiscent of Tremors. In that film, he maybe gets the most characteristically Fillion line of all, as he reflects on the horrors that are overtaking his little community: "My easy-going nature is gettin' sorely fuckin' tested."

I know there's been talk of remaking The Rockford Files, and while that's a crap idea, if anyone could recapture Garner's combination of cranky exasperation and good humor, it's Fillion.
Thank you for recommending Dr. Horrible to me. I found it on Youtube and it was fucking great. "The hammer is my penis". I died laughing.

And I checked out Slither from my local library, so I'm gonna watch it tomorrow night.
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post #79 of 86
8/29/10 at 7:40pm
Is this really the only FIREFLY appreciation thread?

Anyway, decided this was not quite enough to post on the main page, but figured the FIREFLY fans around here would enjoy it.

This is disturbingly spot on. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuEfG...layer_embedded

My least favorite part of the show was the boring intro/theme song. So that make this even better for me.
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post #80 of 86
8/29/10 at 10:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Miller View Post
Is this really the only FIREFLY appreciation thread?
There are a bunch, but none really definitive. Maybe due to people becoming fans at their own speed. I may hunt down some links later.

I kind of like how this thread turned into a Whedon catch-all.
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post #81 of 86
8/30/10 at 12:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hill View Post
There's no good answer for this, although I'm sure there's a fan-wank explanation. It's one of the failings of the show, which was good, but far from perfect.

Oh! I got this! I got this!

In the pilot in the original script, there is a scene where some guy is talking about people allowed on one of the other charter ships when Shepherd Book is looking about. The line, as it appeared originally, was

"No Catholics and no Chinese" (It might have been Asians, can't remember)

Implying that out in the fringes there was a distinctly anti-Chinese sentiment; coupled with the unseen but Very! Important! major Alliance planet Sion which Inara trained at, there is an assumption that the upper/elite classes may in fact be more Asiatic in origin/appearance (Simon and River TAM anyone? Despite the Caucasian actors, they are, and their surroundings, dress, etc are the most Asian-appearing in the series).

So you know, the Chinese put the white man down in the Fireflyverse.

Was that fanwankery enough? Did I do it right? Did I?
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post #82 of 86
8/30/10 at 1:37am
I always expected more Asian actors, what with the heavy implication that English and Chinese are primary languages for everyone in the show. The parts and machinery and signs almost always had Simplified Chinese on them. In Serenity, the commercials are very Asian, stylistically.
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post #83 of 86
8/30/10 at 2:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayward_Woman View Post
Oh! I got this! I got this!

In the pilot in the original script, there is a scene where some guy is talking about people allowed on one of the other charter ships when Shepherd Book is looking about. The line, as it appeared originally, was

"No Catholics and no Chinese" (It might have been Asians, can't remember)

Implying that out in the fringes there was a distinctly anti-Chinese sentiment; coupled with the unseen but Very! Important! major Alliance planet Sion which Inara trained at, there is an assumption that the upper/elite classes may in fact be more Asiatic in origin/appearance (Simon and River TAM anyone? Despite the Caucasian actors, they are, and their surroundings, dress, etc are the most Asian-appearing in the series).

So you know, the Chinese put the white man down in the Fireflyverse.

Was that fanwankery enough? Did I do it right? Did I?
Except that we see some of the Core Worlds. And there aren't any Asians. Not to mention that the Alliance ships don't seem to have any Asian crew members.

The Chinese put the white man down so far in the Fireflyverse that he ended up being on top again.
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post #84 of 86
9/2/10 at 7:57pm
Yeah, but did I do the fanwanking right?
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post #85 of 86
9/2/10 at 8:15pm
I loved the series and enjoyed the movie a great deal, but I could never get into Objects in Space. Maybe the fact that it was the last episode bummed me out too much, but I couldn't get into Early as a villain (a few effective moments aside). People have complained about Whedon's 'overdone' dialogue, but that never bugged me till Early. The philosophical bounty hunter type character just ended up feeling just a little too cheesy for me. That said, I've only seen the episode once. This thread may have pushed me into giving it another go.
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post #86 of 86
9/2/10 at 8:18pm
The problem with Early is that he's not so effective as to make his issues negligble. Monk is OCD up the wazoo, but he's such a good detective that people will overlook that.

I don't buy that it would happen like that with Early.
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