The Troll/Idiot Conundrum  

That's a good question, Devin. My answer would be this:

If they are dumb, crazy, and weird in a respectful fashion and are making a good faith effort to contribute to discussion, then no, they do not deserve to be banned. There is an ignore function, people should use that instead if they don't want to hear from a particular poster.

As for how you tell who is dumb versus who is a troll, I guess you'd look at their entire posting history. I think trolls would be trying to start arguments in every thread they participate in, even in mundane "what's your favorite song" type threads. Why do I think this? Because a troll gets enjoyment from causing havoc, and normal posting and the enjoyment normal people get from it would not interest them. The other side of the spectrum is the idiot, as you said. I think that while the idiot may end up starting a few arguments, they do so only because their point of view on a given issue may be considered "idiotic", which leads to controversy, even if controversy wasn't their motivation behind posting their views. It's a tough call, but that's my take.

Truthfully, I'm not sure there is a way to be 100% sure. Much of it just boils down to gut feel, which can oftentimes be wrong.

Also, I don't think anyone deserves to be banned for being dumb/crazy unless he's being a serious nuisance, which would have to be judged by someone like Nick, I guess. But if they don't derail, why should they? In fact, a lot of the trouble comes from the regular posters giving these guys too much attention.

Troll: Count Chocula.

Dumbass/Idiot: Fleed. Kate.

It's pretty obvious that the 2nd group should be ignored at least, but banned? Nah.

This. If you start a discussion, even a heated argument, with one of your posts (which could perhaps be labeled idiotic), but don't allow it to devolve into the level of persaonal insults for their own sake, you're not a troll. If you do engage in insulting the other participants in an argument and little (if anything) else, then you are a troll. For these reasons, as annoying as she can get, I've never considered Kate to be a troll. Maybe I'm wrong.

What Martin said.

I personally find the idiots more fascinating than the trolls. We just don't have the truly funny trolls these days, or maybe I'm just used to seeing them over the years.

Count Chocula's a pansy when it comes to trolls. If you're gonna derail every thread you post in with obnoxious and antagonistic comments, at least add some real irony to the situation (speaking of irony---Princess Kate being the first one to respond to this topic...). Or make me laugh.

You noticed that too, huh?

Yeah, I agree. And as much as the idiots may be annoying, it's not a bannable offense.

Thirded.

Yep. And the fact that she didn't realize she was one of the topics of the thread was pretty funny too.

In my opinion, I think as long as the idiots (specifically Princess Kate) shouldn't be banned as long as they're remain polite. However, it would just be really fucking great if they could learn to adapt to constructive criticism or realize when people are becoming sick and tired of their antics.

The ignore function is a viable solution to dealing with the idiots, but it can become overwhelming when they post in every single thread created (and usually multiple times, with multiple edits, and multiple annoying abbreviations). If it was a few posts here and there it would not be a big deal. But when your entire screen is empty at times because all of the messages are being ignored (see the most recent posts in the Paranormal Activity thread), it really starts to become irritating.

As for Duke Fleed, I don't find his brand of idiocy to be that bad. Especially considering his posts are always short and sometimes have a little bit of humor in them. If you don't want to read them, they're random and short enough to breeze by without even using the ignore function.

He doesn't post random and unnecessary pics and use a signature with a font size of 52 like the other idiot.

The Troll/Idiot Conundrum

Wow, exactly! I actually feel bad that Duke Fleed gets lumped in with Kate all the time. His posts are odd, but they're short, and I don't find them disruptive or argumentative. Kate with her ridiculous, "This is what I think, I'm right, no, I AM right, I insist I'm right, I don't feel like arguing with you all day, so let's end the conversation now and please stop replying back to me now - thanks!" makes me want to punch a wall. Let's put it this way - one of them is on my ignore list, and it's not Duke.

Yes, for a great example of this you should check out her posts today in the "Most Anticipated of 2010" music thread. You described her posting exactly.

I'm still not convinced Fleed and Kate aren't joke posters.

EDIT: "Joke" was a poor choice of words, more like "schtick".

cool so this is a 'ban Princess Kate' thread now right

Also, if being dumb/weird were bannable offenses this would be one barren fucking forum. I certainly wouldn't be allowed to board here.

I think everybody noticed Kate was the first to post in this thread. It's sort of telling.

My problem with Kate isn't that she's useless, it's the way in which she dominates the boards. She's been around for less than six months and already has 3,500 posts. Yes, there's the ignore function, but she averages more posts per day than anyone here. That's ridiculous.

Fleed is one of the best posters here seriouspost

Don't forget that her posts are also often photo essay's!

I'm pretty sure PK sets out to intentionally rile people up which makes her a classic troll. She's either an honest idiot savant or a troll who is good at maintaining a persona. And if you put too many people on your ignore list it makes threads unreadable, their are section threads where EVERY post is ignored. It's why I stopped using them.

You're not dumb Jake. Your posts are a pleasure to read through.

It is nice having opposing viewpoints and some eccentric characters on the boards, but it is another thing to have someone that consistently annoys the crap out of everyone and still causes them to be annoyed after they have them on the ignore.

Obviously I knew the thread was partly about me. But I didn't want to come in here shouting "No I'm not an idiot, and I'm not a troll either!" I wanted to try and address Devin's point on his terms, and in as objective a way as possible, hopefully tackling the issue from a perspective similar to that which other Chewers would use. I was really alarmed that "banning" might be a possible solution for people considered "idiots" because of their minority opinions, and wanted to throw in my two cents given the fact that as a long time holder of minority opinions, I had quite a stake in the discussion


PS..... BW, my signature is NOT in size 52 font. It's size seven. And people have complimented me on my signature in the past.

Wow that post should win some sort internet validation award or something.

Idiots who won't shut up become trolls, so I think belligerence enters into it when it comes to dumb people. At this point there's nothing Kate's done that's as bad as anything Diva's done, so I think there's a general acceptance of town idiots around here, especially if they aren't nipped in the bud right away, and if they aren't then you'll get the wee-wee brigade complaining about censorship because they are afraid that they'll get banned too for being stupid.

There's a huge difference between being a smartass and a dumbass. We love our smartasses (that would be you, Jake). And the dumbasses speak for themselves.

She does do this. As someone that used to get in debates with her, I know this well. PK would go out of her way to post completely absurd view points, and when I would try to bring in rational information into the debate, she would always say she "didn't want to argue and is going to bed." And then she would create another post 10 minutes later to get the last word.

Right, BW and I are thinking a lot alike on this one. Having oddballs or eccentrics on the board doesn't bother me - it makes the board more interesting. But there's a difference when it's someone who just irritates the hell out of everyone - and possibly just for the sake of doing so, though the jury's still out on that one. I'm not saying ban her, because she hasn't done anything bannable. But when half the board has you on ignore, it's time to think about the way you interact with other people.

I must have missed the place in the forum rules where it said if you post 23 times a day, that's out of bounds.

Luca S., LisaNY, Thank you for the support.

It's weird because Chud, as a culture, existing on a principal of breaking each others balls about stuff. It's essentially the online equivalent of a lockerroom in that regard, wow that's a really inopportune metaphor.

Now the level of ball breakage is inconsistent (from playful putdowns and snarks to outright hatred) but that's a level of discourse we sort of expect. People like PK just don't factor into that whatsoever because whilst they're annoying they're not aggressive. Essentially on Chud to be a troll is to be passive-aggresive rather than full on aggressive.

ETA: This of course is just MY experience of Chud. It might be that I'm completely misinterpreting people.

For the record, I like Fleed alot too. He is kind of a pun master, topping even Cptn Jack "Weavels" Aubry.

Princess Kate, Thank You for the compliment as well.

Is there really a...Conundrum? Just because you disagree with someone, it doesn't make that person an idiot, or a troll.

Gah. They are going to mate.

The moment I found out Fleed was a hardcore conservative was the moment his schtick stopped being even remotely amusing.

What an interesting child that would make..

I don't know about some people but I love the hell out of the Fleed and Kate posts. Their points of view are usually completely random and are outside of my train of thought..and I respect it and take great humor in their posts.

As for Count Chocula.. that fucker needs to die in a tire fire.

How could Fleed have ever been anything other than a conservative? I mean really.

But his political leanings rarely make an appearance into his posts. Which is once again another difference between to the two people being discussed in this thread.

Check out his thoughts on Avatar, which are kind of amazing.

Personally, I find the people that jump into any thread that Kate posts in to call her a troll far more trollish than anything she's ever done. Same with fleed. If you think they're annoying, put them on ignore. Stop dancing around like a jackass because you want the attention you think they're getting.

By the by have they taken the 'ignore poster' shortcut out. Seems that you can only do it via your User CP as the drop down list that you can get from clicking on peoples names no longer has that functionality.

The haters are a lot more distracting than either one of those two, and neither (as far as I've noticed) have ever been insulting to anyone else here.

Chocula, on the other hand, is pretty much tipping his hat as an old SP troll. His presence here seems to exist simply to be contrary. Not that people around here don't disagree, but I'm pretty sure if someone starts a "The Sky is Blue" thread, he'll chime in just to say "It's obviously neon pink, and anyone who thinks it's blue needs to be decapitated".

I think the biggest difference is, a "quirky" poster, ala PK or Fleed, has a different opinion and a different way of posting, while a troll is someone just trying to fuck shit up for the "lulz".

Spike, you can click on their name in their post, view their profile, and add them via the User List drop down on their profile page.

I thought Chocula's little shot at Jaws was the post of the day. Loosen up, people! I mean, isn't this place supposed to be fun???

Thanks Richard.

You got to give Chocula credit. He's using those three courses he took in sociology, philosophy and psychology to their fullest. Man is getting some mileage out of 'em.

For some people it is for some people it isn't. I don't have a sense of humour and so I got more value out of Post Release threads than the social/comedy thread stuff. I think the 'locker room' feel I was going on about exacerbates the open mic night feel that a lot of threads descend into.

I kinda don't care if he gets banned, but I think it's inevitable if he keeps it up. He's most certainly Creepy Thin Man or one of his brethren. Take a shot at Jaws? Whatever. Take ONLY shots at things and not talk about a single thing that you actually like? That's a trollin'. Of course, the usual goal of trolling is to get attention, so:

What does it take to get banned here?

Count Chocula has clearly been a straight-up asshole to people and not in a "ball-busting" kind of way. And when he does offer opinions on movies, his antagonistic and purposefully contrarian point of view rarely sparks insightful conversation and more often than not just riles people up. The occasions when he is a bit more civil doesn't excuse the times when he isn't.

I don't give a fuck about him really and can easily put him on ignore but keeping him here only contributes to a less-than-welcoming environment.
I don't see why this board has to be known for being a locker-room kind of environment. Why join a board when shit-talking is tolerated?

CONFESSION: Chocula's my favorite new boarder.

From what I've noticed since '04:
1. Shill (blatantly, and only shill, especially out of the Shameless Thread)
2. Have an alt, and get caught
3. Be previously banned, and get caught
4. Outright and viciously attack someone who wasn't asking for it (Domingo)
5. Racist (or any other harsh "ist") comments
6. Advocate piracy (even this seems to get a couple of warnings)

"It's a dog" seemed to work pretty well.

You and Chocula against the world.