David Letterman, the transphobic comedian

Melman would have totally killed with that line and then this wouldn't even be an issue.

It's insensitive, that's for sure. The real question is what does Joe The Plumber think about it?

I liked Conan's joke better, he said Obama appointed the first Transgender person to the commerce department, and then commented that it was nice to see Obama cross party lines and appoint Anne Coulter.

Isn't this joke older than the Lascaux paintings?

Some discussion about it on Pam's House Blend:
http://www.pamshouseblend.com/diary/...avid-letterman
http://pamshouseblend.com/diary/1473...amanda-simpson

They seem to be completely missing the point of the joke. Kalter's over the top reaction, not the transgender status of the appointee, is the object of the joke. They're laughing at Kalter, not her.

....But the transgender status of the appointee is what caused Kalter's reaction, which makes it part of the joke, and therefore kinda shitty.

I see it more as laughing at the kind of person who would sleep with a transgendered person without realizing it and then take great offense than poking fun at the concept of a transgendered person.

I don't think it's that bad a joke, personally. I can see how it could offend, but I tend to think it's more a joke about the man's shock that he didn't know something so basic about a person he was involved with, than a joke saying this woman was an abberation or that transgenderism is bad. That's just me though



With that said, given the amount of grief that individual is getting from the bigots, I can see how you'd be sick of any jokes, whether or not they were mean spirited

It's really easy to divorce the two concepts. Just look at something like All in the Family. Minorities and hippies give rise to Archie Bunker's antics and you laugh at not with the character. You wouldn't say that Miller thought that blacks and the counterculture were part of the joke, so I don't see why you would in this case either.

But doesn't a bit of the humor of "Ha ha, you really slept with someone who used to be a guy and didn't know it" come from implying there's something "wrong" with it?

I think it's a good point to make that there probably wouldn't be a Late Show joke about Alan being upset at finding out (I guess someone he had never met) was gay or black.

Trans people get left out and isolated by so many people, so, as the website CZ linked to points out, using the usual defense in criminal trials involving attacks on them as a punchline is maybe not going to go over well. Though it's probably hard to find a mainstream comedian who hasn't used a variant of this joke. The counselor on 30 Rock, Jeffery Weinerslav, complaining about being more oppressed than either Liz Lemon or Tracy is probably the only positive mainstream trans comedy moment I can think of. Always Sunny in Philadelphia kind of had a heartwarming relationship between Mac and that girl for awhile, although mixed in with a lot of jokes about her penis.

If you have a brain, yes. I'm not going to assume that the people watching it or the people who would immediately laugh at such a joke are thinking about it on a similar level, though.

I didn't say I laughed. I don't even watch the Late Show

I think all of these are correct.

And I do see Cuchulain's point with the All in the Family example - that the real joke is aimed at the kind of person who'd freak out over a transgendered person, and not at the transgendered person themslves. But as Jake pointed out, the people who would have an immediate laugh at that joke are probably not thinking of it that way. The lowest common denominator is going to think the joke is about Amanda, not about Alan, no matter what the original intent of the joke was.

Honestly, I think Bob nailed it. I didn't think this was offensive at all until I watched it. The poor execution of the joke is what makes the insensitive subtext stand out. If somebody like Larry Bud had done it, we would have been laughing at him, rather than that the idea of sleeping with a transgenered woman is gross.

I dunno about "wrong", but you could definitely find humor in it. C'mon, I'm all for LGBT rights, but don't tell me that nonetheless there isn't something striking about a man who's now a woman.

Well, do we want Letterman (or hell, any show) to do jokes that pander to the lowest common denominator? If I wanted that, I'd watch the Blue Collar guys.

I agree, the joke is the reaction, not "ha ha, she used to be a GUY, yuck!" I think it's completely evident that that was the intention of the skit. People need to lighten up. Hell, I don't even see why LGBT guys wouldn't chuckle at it.

arrrrgh

If I slept with a woman and then found out she was actually a guy I think I would feel pretty strange. I also think others would find humor in the situation. I don't really see how this is that incredibly insensitive. Except for the fact that it's humor, it's supposed to be sort of insensitive.

Well, I don't think looking for "humor" is the right angle. There is something strikig about a man who's now a woman, sure. I admit that it's really interesting. But "humor" or finding it funny - nope, I don't think it's funny. If you watch some of the documentaries about transgendered people who describe what they've gone through - many of them were suicidal before realizing that changing genders could be the key to what they felt was wrong with them. These were some deeply unhappy people who went through hell, so I don't think they should be a punchline.

Again, I do get that the joke's intent wasn't the transgendered woman, but I don't think most audiences are smart enough to see that.

/sigh

If I may split hairs, the joke is that he didn't know beforehand, so it's not unreasonable or bigoted for him to be horrified.
But even with that aside, it's funny because it's offensive. That's how humor generally works.

The second act of The Crying Game IS A HATE CRIME

I should also add that the process of getting your dick cut like a banana peel to create a mock vagina is too fucking silly not to be funny.

It's the exact same joke from Ace Ventura: When Nature Calls, for Pete's sake. And even when I was 11 I understood that the joke was the guy's reactions to realizing they slept with a woman who used to be a guy.

All this "these people were suicidal yadda yadda yadda" has NOTHING to do with the joke.

A heterosexual man finds out the woman he slept with (they're implying he had a relationship with her, which is why he says "Amanda?!?!" like he knows her personally) used to be a man, and he's grossed out. That could definitely be played for humor.

It's "the chick I banged used to be a guy?? ack!!" not "that chick used to be a guy?? ack!!"

Big difference. One can be funny, the other's just mean and ignorant.

You should probably just quit while you're behind.

There's no bigotry in sexual orientation. If the idea of making out with a man repulses me, it's not because I'm a hatemonger of men. He's not repulsed because of what she did, he's grossed out because it's implied he fucked her, and him being heterosexual, it's completely fucking natural for him to be weirded out.

If that makes me an idiot, pass over the dunce cap then.

The argument is that in a more accepting culture you would be indifferent, not repulsed. In the same way gay people are not constantly throwing up at the sight of hetero kisses.

Man, nobody even had to give you a shovel. You just wrenched it right from our hands and started digging.

The awesome thing about threads like these? I learn which people I should ignore.

It was the first ACE VENTURA, unless Ace banged another lady who used to be a man in WHEN NATURE CALLS.

Something to consider: this wasn't just a random joke about Kalter sleeping with transgender women; it was about Kalter sleeping with a particular transgender woman.

I think this takes it out of that "ha ha, aren't we straight guys so uptight about sleeping with women who used to be men?" realm and into personal insult territory. It's calling attention to Simpson's transgender-ness in a negative way, essentially making her the butt of the joke.

I can't say I'd be entirely comfortable in a relationship with a transgender woman, but there's a big difference between not being attracted to someone and making an exaggerated, comedic point about my revulsion toward her (or him, for that matter), especially when the subject is someone in particular.

When HRC makes a capital case out of a harmless joke, it reduces its own credibility and effectiveness. Does Robinson really not realize that, or is she just desperate for any sort of attention?

(And Ace only kissed Einhorn, who was just Ray Finkle in drag. Gosh, Molt, I thought I could count on you to know that!)

Ever heard of Rehab? Not the place you go to get over your demons, but the famous giant pool at the Hard Rock Hotel and Casino in Las Vegas. Well, TruTV did a reality show based around the people who work at the daily pool parties they have there, and in one show these Jersey Shore-esque jocks visit and the camera follows them around. One of them crushes on one of the pool's dancers and talks her up. He gloats to his friends about how hot she is and how much he's fallen for her. His friends later find out she used to be a guy, and they pull him aside and tell him. The guy gets all quiet and ponderous, and then pulls her aside. He tells her he found out about her, and she's all "yeah, well, that happens, sorry about that" and he says "you know what? Fuck it, I think you look great, and I'd still go out tonight with you if you want" and she's shocked as shit and agrees. He then tells his friends about his decision and they basically react with "well, knock yourself out, if that's what you really want".

I dunno how staged it was, if it was at all (didn't seem like it, but with reality shows you never know), but I thought it was sweet as hell and gave props to the guy for looking past all the baggage. And even if it was staged, the show still deserves a golf clap for treating it as something sweet and honest.

That said, I can still find the humor in the knee-jerk reaction of finding out the chick you slept with used to have a dong. That doesn't stem from any kind of prejudice against LGBT, and really, if you believe it does then you're just looking for a reason to hate on a person.

Really? They just kissed? Huh, it has been a while. I do remember when Don Shula opened the mailbox and Ace was inside. Goddamn that was funny.

Yeah, they just kissed. And Ace said: "Your gun is digging into my hip." See, it was funny because it wasn't her gun at all -- it was his penis!!!!!

Honestly? Using this to drum up more money. I've received three requests this week alone.

You are correct, sir. My apologies.

Oh, please, she was the transgender woman "of the moment" (I dunno how else to phrase it). It's not like they went after her out of the blue, with no provocation (so to say). The joke is not personal AT ALL. It wasn't even a joke about how she looked after the change... hell, if they implied he had a relationship, in any case they're saying she makes a good-lookin' woman.

Okay, so joking about someone having sex with a complete stranger isn't personal. Got it.

Sure it is. They made a joke - directly or indirectly, it still puts the focus on her - about a specific transgender woman. Doesn't get more personal than that.

Oh boo hoo they made fun of a public figure.

This.

Sounds like a lot of people need to ease back on the 'ol sensitivity throttle.

If Amanda Simpson hadn't been in the news the past 72 hours+, it'd be personal.

You think every fucking joke about Obama is a personal jab? He makes jokes about stuff in the news! That's his job!

She's a stranger to him in that they probably have never met in real life, but in the context of the joke IT'S IMPLIED THEY HAD BEEN IN A RELATIONSHIP, in case that's what you mean.

Not trying to hate on you. I'm just saying that the expected reaction of the Rehab guy/Alan's in the skit ("repulsion") is not the natural one, like you said earlier. It's ingrained by a larger mindset that it would be cool if society dumped.

Man, now I feel REALLY guilty for laughing at all of those Sarah Palin jokes over the last year and a half. I never knew what an insensitive clod I was.

I'll bet Rich Little is feeling like shit over all of those "funny" Nixon faces he made.

When I said "hate on a person" I meant the guy from Letterman and/or Letterman himself, not me.