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The Rocketeer

post #1 of 60
Thread Starter 
Got this for Christmas and sat down to watch it tonight. So much greatness in this film it's a real shame it didn't do better in the box office.

Terry OQuinn as Howard Hughes, Timothy Dalton Chewing scenery left right and centre and of course Alan Arkin. Connelly and Campbell were pretty good as well but whenever Dalton was on screen you sort of forget they were there.

This flick also managed to get me interested in A Captain Amercia movie so that was a bonus.
post #2 of 60
A good little flick that doesn't get enough love. I agree that watching it does give me hope for a kickass Captain America movie.
post #3 of 60
Great. That's what this film is, just Great.

The effects have aged VERY well, considering it was a mid-budget film from '91. I agree with everything Ken drew attention to, but I just wanna point to two more moments of greatness:

1) The Nazi rocket man films (the test subject and the propaganda animation) - both chillingly effective.

2) The Zeppelin finale - as satisfying a setpiece as you could ask for.

Man, I'm gonna watch this later today. Love it.
post #4 of 60
Ken Savage, I agree with all you said about...The Rocketeer, except for one thing. Jennifer Connelly's...figure, is as...Eye-Popping, as the special effect work.
post #5 of 60
ok now i gotta rewatch this

thanks
post #6 of 60
There are NO words...





post #7 of 60
I was all about this movie that summer, but I haven't watched it again in years. Is the DVD bare-bones? Should I stop being a lazy-ass and just go found out?
post #8 of 60
The R2 release is pretty bare, yeah. But for £2-3, you can't argue really.
post #9 of 60
Thread Starter 
Forgot to mention the South Sea Club, a brilliant design that really adds to the period theme.

Side note, what happend to Billy Campbell
post #10 of 60
He was pretty good in the underrated Ghost Town.
post #11 of 60
Thread Starter 
Havent seen that one, will have to check it out.
post #12 of 60
Loved this since i was 10 back in 1991, one of the best and underappreciated comic book movies.
post #13 of 60
I've got my fingers crossed that Disney will put out a special edition dvd of The Rocketeer in 2011 to cash in on Joe Johnston's involvement with Captain America.
post #14 of 60
Wasn't Jan from the US Office the singer in the club?

Yeah, this movie is a lot of fun. I think I still have the faux leather backpack I won during a pre-release screening. It came stuffed with all kinds of swag, including a great Bulldog Cafe mug.
post #15 of 60
"I may not make an honest buck, but I'm 100 percent American" is one of those moments that makes me pump my fist every time, and the way it's played straight, embracing the sentiment and the cheese without being winky, gives me much hope for Captain America.
post #16 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by gravedigger View Post
Wasn't Jan from the US Office the singer in the club?
YES, according to her imdb page.
post #17 of 60
This movie defines pulpy fun. Love it.
post #18 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by DARKMITE8 View Post
There are NO words...





God, she was pretty. Now she's just a skeleton.
post #19 of 60
I love the ideas in this but can't say the same for the actual film. Errol Flynn as Nazi collaborator with Rondo Hatton's Creeper as a henchmen is kind of great. But what is it about Disney produced live action films that they always turn out so damn plodding? And that's the best word I can find for this one as well. Dragonslayer, Tron , Black Hole, etc. It's like there's a formality to the storytelling that never allows any of them to ever just cut loose and in doing so get some real momentum going.
post #20 of 60
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RathBandu View Post
"I may not make an honest buck, but I'm 100 percent American" is one of those moments that makes me pump my fist every time, and the way it's played straight, embracing the sentiment and the cheese without being winky, gives me much hope for Captain America.
Totally agree, that scene should grate on me being from the UK but it really works. Even the bit with the Rocketeer standing next to the American flag before attacking the Zepplin is pretty cool.
post #21 of 60
I find that plodding nature extends to the action beats. It feels like someone's approximation of a thrilling scene instead of scenes that actually thrill. And, again, I find that applies to many of the live action Disney films.
post #22 of 60
There was an interview with Joe Johnston somewhere (maybe AICN?) where he said the Disney people were forcing him to cut corners at every point. Maybe those forced compromises explain something..?
post #23 of 60
After some googling I found this:

Quote:
...there was a whole sequence over Hollywood Boulevard where he lands at Grauman’s Chinese Theater and had more stuff to do with the gangsters chasing him and stuff like that. I know why they did it. They want to get their investment back, but sometimes they don’t realize that “Okay guys, spend another six million and you are going to get back a lot more than that.” That’s a hard sell.
post #24 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Savage View Post
Totally agree, that scene should grate on me being from the UK but it really works. Even the bit with the Rocketeer standing next to the American flag before attacking the Zepplin is pretty cool.
I'll say the same for the little smirk between Paul Sorvino and the FBI agent fighting side by side against the Nazis before letting rip with their Tommy guns again. Lovely stuff.
post #25 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Thomas View Post
2) The Zeppelin finale - as satisfying a setpiece as you could ask for.
Except for the fact that the hero doesn't actually rescue anybody and ends up having to be saved by Howard Hughes in an autogyro.

I'll keep saying this until the day I die, if you're going to have a movie about a guy who can fly, he needs to fly more than twice in that movie.
post #26 of 60
Fair point (see Virtanen's posts).

I just love the compartments of the Zeppelin exploding one by one and the fights.
post #27 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abbott & Prospero View Post
I love the ideas in this but can't say the same for the actual film. Errol Flynn as Nazi collaborator with Rondo Hatton's Creeper as a henchmen is kind of great. But what is it about Disney produced live action films that they always turn out so damn plodding? And that's the best word I can find for this one as well. Dragonslayer, Tron , Black Hole, etc. It's like there's a formality to the storytelling that never allows any of them to ever just cut loose and in doing so get some real momentum going.
Thank you. Thought I was taking crazy pills for a minute there.

People are a lot kinder to this film than it deserves. Nostalgia's a bitch. This flick bombed for a reason, and it's because it's fucking boring in stretches and takes itself way too seriously for the duration. It also needs about 3 extra actual action scenes to make it as exciting as many here seem to think it is in their memories.

I tried watching it for the first time in nearly 20 years a few months ago and I couldn't even finish the thing. I kept waiting for something exciting to happen. I fell asleep instead.
post #28 of 60
I think it's pretty telling we've come this far in the thread and no one has actually mentioned the hero of the film as something they love about it. We've gotten Jennifer Connelly (and mostly for her looks and her cleavage-baring dresses), the set design of one particular building, Locke playing Howard Hughes, Timothy Dalton, and a throwaway line from Paul Sorvino. But nobody saying, "Wow, the Rocketeer was awesome when he ... did whatever it is he does in this film."
post #29 of 60
Shoulda switched Bill for Bruce Campbell!
post #30 of 60
I know, it's no DaVinci Code, Dickson, nor is it a 70s classic or an excuse for Rain Dog to decry the death of creative studio filmmaking. How's that one note sounding for you guys?

And for the record, I think Campbell does a really good job at playing the "in over his head" hero. The only reason I haven't brought it up is that I've talked this movie up and down on these boards already in a zillion other threads.
post #31 of 60
Damned if I like an 80s movie, damned if I don't. Oh well.
post #32 of 60
Richard Dickson, You're right, I also forgot to mention the stalwart...Cliff Secord, as portrayed by Bill Campbell, and he was solid, if not spectacular as...The Rocketeer. Unfortunately, there was less action featuring the hero of the film so...The Rocketeer was not showcased enough. The scene in the nightclub, and the scene on the zepplin were terrific, but the film needed more of that.
post #33 of 60
This was 1991, Richard. It had the misfortune of opening against Terminator 2.

And I'll be the first guy to admit that I'll take a nostalgia bath on this one, every time. I saw it in the theaters, on a trip with my dad to L.A. We went to Griffith Observatory the next day, and this was one of the first movies I was ridiculously obsessed with. So yeah, I'll admit my bias.
post #34 of 60
That's a perfectly fair reaction. We all have our blinders. There are films that hit my nostalgia buttons too. This was never one of them.
post #35 of 60
I guess nostolgia is affecting me too. I was 13 when it was in theatres and I'd wished there was more action then and I still do now. Of course in most movies I want to see more action, but it's fun. I also love the old timey film set when we meet Dalton's character.
post #36 of 60
I remember being so hyped to see this flick, and when my parents took me to see it, I was not disappointed. Bought the dvd back in 2004 and tend to watch it every so often. Such an awesome movie that deserved more than what happened back then. Sucks that it didn't turn into a franchise. This could have been the first "Indiana Jones-esque" franchise rather than The Mummy. Even though that one was still good.
post #37 of 60
I'll admit that Campbell isn't a charisma bomb as Secord but I think he does a pretty good job with what he's given. And he's gone on to have a decent career as the handsome suitor who turns out to be all wrong for the leading lady, who wises up and ends up with the star (he's like a better-looking Bill Pullman in that respect).

I remember reading back in the day about the actors they wanted for the ROCKETEER lead - Johnny Depp was at the top of the producers' wishlist, apparently.

Is it crazy that I miss Jennifer Connelly's eyebrows almost as much as I miss her curves?

And nostalgia hasn't completely blinded me to some of this movie's dull patches but I still find it to be good ol'-fashioned entertainment. I'm echoing the hopes of those longing for a special edition DVD, preferably with the original art deco poster.
post #38 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy five-tone View Post
I still find it to be good ol'-fashioned entertainment.
Honestly, I don;t hate the movie by any stretch, but I think thats selling 'good ol-fashioned entertainment' a bit short personally. It really is a few more exciting sequences short od excellent, but god when it drags, it draaaaaaags.

Still, gave the world the knowledge that Ms.Connolly had grown up and for that my early teen self will be eternally grateful.
post #39 of 60
It's not RAIDERS. Hell, it's not even TEMPLE OF DOOM. But I'll take ROCKETEER over CRYSTAL SKULL and maybe even LAST CRUSADE.

But let's not turn this thread into another Indy comparison throwdown.
post #40 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy five-tone View Post
It's not RAIDERS. Hell, it's not even TEMPLE OF DOOM. But I'll take ROCKETEER over CRYSTAL SKULL and maybe even LAST CRUSADE.

But let's not turn this thread into another Indy comparison throwdown.
Mate I was going real ol'-fashioned to be honest. Hell, it's not Captain Blood or 7th Voyage Of Sinbad while we're at it.

Those movies were, ya know, exciting.

The Rocketeer is just a great unrealised idea looking for a more exciting movie.
post #41 of 60
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by duke fleed View Post
Richard Dickson, You're right, I also forgot to mention the stalwart...Cliff Secord, as portrayed by Bill Campbell, and he was solid, if not spectacular as...The Rocketeer. Unfortunately, there was less action featuring the hero of the film so...The Rocketeer was not showcased enough. The scene in the nightclub, and the scene on the zepplin were terrific, but the film needed more of that.
I agree with Duke here, he was good, but not great as the Rockeeter. But then again he was up against Dalton. Costner has the same problem up against Rickman, sometimes you are just going to be outclassed.

Depp would have been an interesting choice, might have given the film enough legs for a more action orinitated sequal.
post #42 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
Except for the fact that the hero doesn't actually rescue anybody and ends up having to be saved by Howard Hughes in an autogyro.
"Don't look at the Zepplin, Marion."
post #43 of 60
To be fair, there are very few movies ever that compete at Captain Blood's level, although I'm more an Adventures of Robin Hood guy.
post #44 of 60
It's too bad this will probably never get a decent DVD release or Blu-Ray seeing that it's Disney holding the rights.
post #45 of 60
Why wouldn't Disney hold the rights? They made it.
post #46 of 60
Also as good of time as any to mention Alan Arkin's character, Peevy.

The film hints of a backstory that he was once a pilot jock like Cliff, back in the true days of aviation pioneering. I love Arkin, being Arkin, throwing out deadpan quips like nobody's business.

Quote:
Cliff Secord: [donning the Rocketeer helmet] How do I look?
Peevy: Like a hood ornament.
post #47 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Clark View Post
Why wouldn't Disney hold the rights? They made it.
Of course, but that was more a comment on Disney's disregard of 90% of their catalog titles.
post #48 of 60
I have no problems admitting that this one is a nostalgia trip for me. Loved it when I was a kid and it's something my dad and I can enjoy together because of that. It really is a great idea wrapped in a pretty okay movie.

Ebert, I think, hit the nail on the head with a lot of this movie (barring the aforementioned lack of a few more needed action sequences):

Quote:
The hero of "The Rocketeer" is being marketed as a new action hero along the lines of Indiana Jones, but the difference between this movie and the Indy series is fundamental: "Raiders of the Lost Ark" took the Saturday afternoon serials of the late 1930s and 1940s as an inspiration, while "The Rocketeer" takes them as a model. Indy kidded them, "The Rocketeer" copies them. The movie lacks the wit and self-mocking irony of the Indiana Jones movies, and instead seems like a throwback to the simple-minded, clean-cut sensibility of a less complicated time.

That doesn't mean "The Rocketeer" is not entertaining. But adjustments are necessary to enjoy it; you have to dial down, to return to an age of innocence when an eccentric inventor and a clear-eyed hero could take on the bad guys with a new gizmo they'd dreamed up overnight.
post #49 of 60
This was one of my all-time most anticipated movies. I had actually picked up the first issue of the comic more or less by accident (it was in the same issue with a new Steve Ditko story that is what caught my attention), but instantly became a huge fan (as my avatar may suggest).

I knew it had the potential for a great adventure picture, but I knew a lot would have to be changed: even without naming him, having Doc Savage as the inventor of the jetpack would mean less than nothing to a mass movie audience. And "Betty" was certainly not going to be a worldly, spoiled brat (based visually on Bettie Page) enraging Cliff by posing for a "cheesecake" (for that era, read: porn) photographer with whom Cliff believes she's having an affair. Which is just one example of the book's often dark tone, that, again, Disney was certainly going to jettison for a mass audience.

And I think the film managed the changes pretty well.

Making the source of Cliff's jealousy a movie star was reasonable, and as others have noted, basing him on Errol Flynn's supposed Nazi sympathies was the perfect touch.

And since, in the book, Peavy mistakenly "deduces" that the mystery inventor is Howard Hughes, that was an ideal transition.

I thought Campbell was perfectly cast, physically, and not too bad in the role. Connolly, of course, was gorgeous (maybe THE single aspect of the film I was most looking forward to!), but they could never seem to decide just how bright Jenny was supposed to be.

Some nice period touches (I loved W.C. Fields and Rondo Hatton-- they took his character from Stevens' second Rocketeer story), and most of the supporting cast (particularly Dalton, O'Quinn, Arkin, Lauter, and Polito) were golden. And the Nazi film is genius.

But then there's the stuff they didn't get right, and as others have alluded, it was the most important part of the film: there's just not much action, and what there is is only middlingly well done. There's not a ton of action in the comic, actually, but it's gorgeously rendered, and the "running time" of the original story is actually short enough that it doesn't feel like it goes on forever between action scenes. And while the period detail is nice, it's less striking seeing it in a movie (where that kind of professional skill isn't all that unusual) than it had been on a comics page.

I agree that they probably did the best they could with their budget, but that's not the kind of discussion I want to have with myself when I'm sitting in a theatre: I want to be transported, and all too often I wasn't.

Also, while I'm willing to concede that others may take to Paul Sorvino more than I do (I don't think he's much of an actor), his subplot was just too much. The film needs better focus, and balancing Cliff and Jenny, Cliff and Peavy, the mob, Dalton, the FBI, Hughes... it's difficult a task for any director (and editor), and one that just seem to be beyond Johnston's capabilities.

Someone called it "plodding", and that's dead on: it never has the narrative drive toward a conclusion; it's like we're constantly waiting for the movie's diverse elements to catch up with each other, instead of moving forward. For instance, while I liked seeing W.C. Fields, that nightclub scene is just one of many that is probably twice as long as it needs to be.

It has some great visual moments (Lindy's test of the jetpack is funny, and beautifully shot), but I've had the DVD sitting around for years and never felt motivated enough to put it in (though I did rewatch most of it on cable one time years ago, and my reaction was the same as it had been at the movies).

ETA:

A year or so before the film came out, my wife got me this t-shirt (the same design as my av) for Father's Day:



I wore it to Disneyland the summer the film came out, and got some interesting looks.

BTW, the model for Betty was Stevens' wife at the time, actress Brinke Stevens, who complained in an interview about the amount of time she had to spend lying across a sofa, bound and gagged, while she modeled for the picture.
post #50 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeb View Post
BTW, the model for Betty was Stevens' wife at the time, actress Brinke Stevens, who complained in an interview about the amount of time she had to spend lying across a sofa, bound and gagged, while she modeled for the picture.
Nice anecdote.
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