The Tea Party Thread - Page 3

I suppose they could all be working at Wal-Mart. It could be worse, folks!

Oh, you did not just equate what Filch does to what Professors McGonagall and Snape do, did you?

It's canon that he sits in the back grading papers when the professors are too busy.

Snaieke is the reason the left needs to embrace the Second Amendment. There's more like him out there.

Wow, this is pretty intellectually dishonest. Even I understood what he meant and everybody around here thinks i'm an idiot.

MissZooey, I am sick of you living the high life off of Snaieke's taxpaying dime. Do you have any idea how many more brown-people-killing bombers we could have by now if it weren't for your selfishness, laziness, and greed??

I would know, if only my math teachers hadn't been day-dreaming about their luxurious paid lunches.

The paid lunches thing is killing me. That whole post was a parody, right?

I just got back from a fifteen-minute paid shit. Take that, teachers.

No matter how you slice it, the Federal Government spends more money on education then on a single plane or it's R&D or the total program cost. He's just making shit up, he thought he was being clever and dismantling a "Teabagger". I've also pointed out to him before that the Tea Party folks didn't call themselves "Teabaggers" it was a joke said on the air by a couple of commentators and the Tea Party folks demanded an apology.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_168286.html
The CNBC host that started the fire, watched it live and it was pretty awesome.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/matthew...re-tea-bagging
http://www.edgeboston.com/index.php?...&sc3=&id=89676 a more indepth history but I never watch msnbc..

Yeah, keep braying about the plane, you moron.

This is completely true.

I work at a Walmart. If you work part-time (32 hours or less) you don't even get five days vacation until you've been there for two years. It's one year if you're full-time, but hardly anyone gets to work 40 hours...

So in April I can take a blistering 5 paid days off, 10 if I don't use them before 2012! The only holiday Walmart closes on is Christmas, but we make time-and-a-half if we work on holidays.

We have to take a mandatory hour for lunch, off the clock, which means we have to spend an extra hour away from home with no benefit.

Of course right now because the economy is bad, except for Walmart, nearly everyone at my store is getting their hours cut. I usually work around the 32 mark... This next week I work 12 hours over two days. Another person in my department, a mother of 3, got hers cut to 8.

When you get hired there, they actually make you watch a propaganda film about 'how good Walmart is. How Walmart doesn't oppose the formations of Unions, but is such a good place to work that it doesn't need them.'

If I didn't share an apartment with someone, I'd have to choose between getting evicted or eating.

Let's just race to the bottom. It's not like teachers hold the future of our country in their hands. The Waltons are in the top 5 richest people in this country for a reason. Let them get even richer by setting the lowest bar for how people get compensated in this country, especially teachers. On second thought, I might have to commit suicide before seeing the Conservatives' dream come true and America destroyed.

ps. MissZooey and Cuchulain, thank you for your wonderful insights and arguments.

I've been getting paid the last 2 days for shoveling the shit-ton of snow dropped on my driveway. Teachers can suck on that!*

*jk! the company I work for makes a living off tests - luv you dudez!

Snaieke doesn't just lose the forest in the trees, he argues if there are enough trees to actually call it a forest.

Wow.

To throw this back on topic: what is it the Tea-Partiers want? I've yet to hear a coherent argument other than the shouting/ruining of the health care town-halls.

Tea, obviously. Hell if I know.

Basically the Tea Partiers were all kept in a big room up until now that said "IN CASE OF NEGRO IN WHITE HOUSE, BREAK SEAL".

I love it when people use the "It's so mean to call them Teabaggers!" argument, because it's actively contradicted by anyone with a functional memory. THEY CHOSE THAT NAME. WE ALL REMEMBER THIS.

I think I'll start the Horsefuckers movement and then complain when everyone makes fun of me that they're just doing it to ignore my many valid ideas.

What is it the Horsefuckers want?

*except Snaieke

More horses obviously. And to cut entitlement spending. Unless it's their entitlements.

Two days ago, I heard Rick Pearlstein debating Grover Norquist and somebody from FreedomWorks on the Diane Rehm show. Pearlstein brought up an interesting point: every time a Democrat is in the White House in recent memory, these "spontaneous" uprisings seem to happen, ushered along by powerful elite interests like FreedomWorks etc. Here's an excerpt of a piece he wrote for the Washington Post last summer:

The whole thing is here.

As far as I can tell, the majority (at least the vocal portion) is a band of dumb motherfuckers loosely united because of several reasons:

1. Pissed off there's a Democrat in office. They shout things like "socialist, union-supporting, commie, gun-hating, immigrant-tolerating, abortion-loving, ect."

2. Pissed off said Democrat isn't White. See birthers, ect.

3. Pissed Obama's spending too much money on non-killing related things. Because our healthcare, prison, ect. systems are fine and dandy because they're AMERICAN! FUCK YEAH!

4. Pissed that the government isn't putting their "God" above everything. "Oh noes, the gays are gettin' married and gonna kill us morals an' familee values." "Obama isn't talking about God in every sentence, the fucking Muslim." "Palin 2012!"

5. Don't want to pay any taxes.

6. Don't want their rich masters who own where they work to pay more taxes. Often goes under the excuse that it hurts small businesses.

Or maybe I'm overthinking it a little.

Sure OK, YT. I was simply pointing out a position I know that works holiday's, since I did some Black Friday shopping this year but we'll go down this road.

How about a lumberjack? do teachers have it better then them? I mean they make about 32K a year.. they have no pension and there is always the risk of a tree falling over on them. I'm willing to bet they don't get spring break off.

OK, how about a Taxi Driver? Do teachers have it better then them? I mean hey, they get to drive around in a car and listen to their own music, right? Well, no they have to listen to a radio for future service calls or to report their position... and they make about 22K a year and they probably don't get to spend time with their family on thanksgiving or Christmas since they're busy travel days.

I mean, lets look at Police Officers and Firemen, they get pensions! so that's at least somewhat comparable but they don't get spring break off and their profession could lead to death and they make about the same as teachers... not to mention they're hourly so that means they don't get paid lunches!

http://www.careercast.com/jobs/conte...-job-ranking-2

I'm not saying lets take money away from teachers, I'm simply pointing out that they make much more then 20K a year and they get some decent benefits but apparently you guys want to make a big deal out of it.

As to your argument that teachers shape the future, my question is... how much? I'd argue Parents play a much larger role then teachers after all.. you see a teacher for 1 school year and once you've left Elementary school, you see one teacher for 50 minutes a year (all in all, about 140 hours a year?) .. meanwhile you have kids coming home with homework each day from each class and Parents have to sit down and help them. Now it doesn't always work that way in every household where parents have a tough job or one that doesn't have work schedule flexibility but I'm betting someone in the teaching profession can stay home with their kids and help them, especially on spring break!

looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

Just don't do it. I know we all want to, but he's clearly baiting at this point.

haha, I did like that to myself.. I left off the word "much" in one of my revisions.

Snaieke, wages have been flat for 30 years. I think the disconnect between you and me is that you think teachers have it pretty good, whereas I think teachers have to struggle for everything and shouldn't. Teachers in my opinion should make more than those douchebags on Wall St. (The Closer excepted - no offense) because they truly do hold the future of our country in their hands. Secondly, I think all workers should be making more money. It's not like inflation has lagged the way wages have. It's not like CEO pay or wealth gains among the top 1% have been flat for 30 years. It's not like health care costs have remained stagnant. All of those have skyrocketed.

The success of the American people -- the working and middle classes -- seems to be in direct conflict with the uber-success of the biggest corporations and the nation's richest. For them to retain their multiple yachts to ski behind, they have to destroy unions, send jobs to slave labor countries, destroy education with their tax revolts, etc. etc. It's like they want a nation of dumb serfs to buy their cheap, toxic products and $5 gas, to lay off or fire, and then to cut off their unemployment or social security benefits when they can no longer work. It really does feel to me like a war by the elites against the working and middle classes, using the uninformed or misinformed masses to fight their parasitic battle for them. I'm just grossed out by the whole thing. These people hide behind Christianity and yet the singlemost unChristian thing I can think of is to rob and screw the poor and the struggling for their own enrichment.

Anyway, back to the topic. You see it as the teachers having it good and therefore shouldn't complain. I see it as everyone needs to be making a living wage and have all the benefits that we work so hard for, like a good education for their kids, a nice vacation, sick days, lunch hours, etc. etc. So what if the elite have to give up one or two of their yachts; it's important for all of us. A strong middle class is what made America such a promised land.

Firstly. The cost of a yacht is only about $2,000,000 and in this economy you can pick one up for the low $600,000 range.. but the dock fees are going to cost you! Either way, not enough to increase wages and benefits for everyone

Secondly. I agree with you 100% how screwed up it is regarding wages and sky rocketing health insurance but the difference is you think its some problem with fat cats being greedy while I see it as a failure in our government to stop the root causes. We were an industrial juggernaut back in the day and that industrial might is what saved our asses during WWII and was the reason for our prosperity in post WWII \ Great Depression America. We've slowly let our industrial sector die through failure to address trade with countries like China but that's a much lengthier discussion then I want to get into right now, as I am jonesing for another round of Mass Effect 2.

Everytime you guys discuss working conditions in the US, my mind is blown. God damn.

As someone who bowed out of becoming a teacher due to a semester of research that resulted in me figuring for myself how shitty the current system treats its educators, I'd like to bow in deep, deep respect for everything Miss Zooey does, and present a giant, flaming, spiky bag of dicks for Snaieke to eat.

The fact that someone could argue (presumably in good faith) that the teachers in this country have it better than most others is something that truly makes my brain want to divide down the middle.

Others have covered it much better than I have, but what the fuck? Snaieke wants to argue that the job of teaching the kids is mostly the responsibility of the parents at home, which, okay, if that's what you think, than fine. But you need to ask how many of these people are qualified to teach their kids anything at all? So many issues in this country stem from a LACK of parenting, that I am not sure how arguing for less teachers (or, stagnant wages for teachers, it's really the same thing) because the parents will take care of it is going to help anything at all.

Another thing that is being ignored in Snaieke's argument is the fact that children need a multitude of influences in their lives to properly shape them. The parent's cant do everything and anything at any time, and to suggest otherwise is just ignorance of the world that we all live in.

Add to that the fact that home schooling tends to produce kids who make the Children of the Corn look well adjusted.

Does the Tea Party believe in the vengeance of He Who Walks Behind the Rows??

But yeah, teachers are right above doctors* as far as the most underpaid individuals out there.


*Seriously. A lot of them deserve to make a lot more for what they do.

Teachers should be respected like veterans but just get shit on constantly while the government forces bullshit programs like No Child Left Behind that makes sure they spend more time filling out paperwork and computer programs based on testing to specific parameters and less time honestly educating our kids. Meanwhile, the good aspects of a bill like NCLB gets unfunded, so you basically have a giant bullshit system "do more work with less money" while education stats spiral down. And who does everyone blame when that happens? The teachers. Because they're unable to teach to the test while making sure their kids are getting individual attention.

It's a hard job and you can't help but bring it home with you. You're not sitting in an office from 9 to 5. You have a responsibility to the kids, a responsibility to the school, a responsibility to the parents. The kids don't want to be there, the school wants you to do less with more and the parents fucking hate you because their kids aren't perfect and that's your fault.

I'd say the same thing to anyone ragging on a teacher as a would someone ragging on a soldier in the military. It's easy to talk shit, but try it yourself before you act like you know what you're talking about.

By the way, Snaieke, 7am to 3pm? Man, I sure wish my mom was home every day at 3pm. What the fuck kind of world do you live in? You think teachers ride the bus home or something? I'm sure some leave as soon as their last kid is out the door (maybe the ones you know), but most don't. And when they go "home" you realize they still have work to do, right? You know..."homework?" "Grading?" That kind of thing?

Beyond health care reform, we need education reform badly in this country. Badly. Nothing can get done about it though because people want less money going into education then they do health care. So we're all fucked. Meanwhile, since China is communist they can just create a better education system than we can because they don't have to worry about an incompetent senate arguing about what's socialism and what isn't while they collect huge checks and send their kids to private schools while our kids learn less and less everyday. How fucked up is that?

But Parker, teachers don't help shape the future. Wait I'm sorry I mean they don't shape it much

But seriously, *applauds*

Also, this. THIS THIS THIS. I'm a college professor and the incoming freshman are so terribly uneducated that my job is a constant struggle. Constant.

My first year of teaching was as an adjunct. I got paid $50 an hour. For every CREDIT hour. I only got three or four classes a semester. They were all three credits each. Do that math and try to act all fucking snide.

Yeah, I got Christmas off. But I didn't get fucking paid because I wasn't fucking teaching.

I got paid once a month. I barely made it month to month. I'd pay all my bills and then wonder how I was going to last until the first. Meanwhile, I was dealing with uneducated college freshman that had been passed up by a fucked up public school system and asked to work more (unpaid) hours to tutor them and stay up all night grading their grammar-mistake ridden work.

Fuck yourself.

Every word of this is true.

I would only add that one of the main benefactors of the multi million dollar govt contract for that useless software and systems teachers are forced to use is George Bush's brother.

Parker, baby, we had our disagreements in the An Education thread, but I feel like we should hug or something right now. Or at least get trashed (at home, of course, because who can afford a bar?) and tell stories that start, "There was this one kid last semester who..."

And, Justin, thanks for the support. This adjunct nonsense I'm contending with right now is only a temporary stop for me (assuming the blood sacrifices and prayers work). As such, I'd like it very much if that bag could be presented to Snaieke on behalf of my third grade teacher, who, twenty-two years later, is the finest educator I have ever met. He is, btw, still at it, at the same blue-collar, suburban elementary school I attended. So, yeah. Him.

ive always said that i dont mind large government spending as long as WE GET SOMETHING OUT OF IT.

the problem i always had with Bush's deficit was that it was 1.3 trillion by the time he left and we got nothing out of it. most of it was Tax cuts for the wealthy, and 2 wars they figured would pay for themselves (actually they figured Iraq would pay for both).. what does the public get? a clusterfuck.

at least with obama he's trying to actually give us things, like healthcare and better, cheaper education (within the past year tuition at Cal State Long Beach has gone up 66% i used to pay about 1400 for 12 units, now tuition cost 2200 for the same amount of units). i cant see what is bad about trying to expand either. it should be what society strives to achieve. not fight against. people are duped into supporting the very thing that would actually help them. just like Marx said.

i can understand the idea that people are mad about government spending being wasted but do they really thing that corporations and management would step up and pay for these things themselves because its the right thing to do? is that how workers won things like minimum wage and 8 hours a day work?

I didn't advocate less teachers, or less pay for teachers or home schooling or whatever little bullshit you made up in your mind. Now I did say that parents have a bigger influence on the children then teachers and you are right some households that just isn't going to happen and I'd be willing to bet dollars to donuts that those households are (as I said) from people who earn LESS income in comparison to teachers and have less benefits or as flexible of a work schedule.

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I'm simply pointing out that they are getting a decent paycheck and have some pretty damn good benefits.

Infact, here you go. Median family income by state.

California: 29,172 for a 1 person family

California: Average teacher salary: $63,640
Average beginning teacher salary: $35,506 (in California)

Now, keep in mind... that was for 9 months work while the 1 person family is for 12 months and the teacher enjoys benefits year round. Now I'm not saying that teachers don't earn their money but there are far worse off careers with far fewer benefits.

The educational system is just too easy a target for budget cuts.
Teachers are a minority anyway. Kids have no voting rights, and most do not have ways to stand up for their right for education, and if they could, they likley wouldnt, not being blessed with the experience yet to see farther.
Which leaves parents, but for some (to me) inexplicable reason they dont seem to vote in a way that actually makes the education of their kids matter... sure, they yell a lot, but in the end, it seems that they still put their vote in for the guy they are supposed to (read: partyline) and thats about it.

Schools have no lobby, at least not one able to command much money.

I grew up in germany, and at the age of 14, I met my first US exchange student. That was 14 years ago roughly, and back then already general education about a breadth of topics was noticably poor. Today, one of my jobs is event managment in a games/community center, and we get a lot of exchange students due to many games being english, not german by default.
It sure has gotten worse.
The american school system, at least compared to the standards here in germany, has never been that great in many areas. It was always rather focused on teach a small set of core skills and facts, rather than a breadth of knowledge or the ability to self-educate.
With "No Child left behind", things finally went bottom-up, and you can see, read and hear about it even here.
At the technical university in vienna, people get hired by US companies bemoaning the lack of educated workers inside the States, before even having their degree, and not just those with the best grades. And as far as I know, the same holds true in many other european and asian countries: Education gets outsourced, the companies in the US buy back the workforce that others trained, and the american average college guy is left in the dust, likely even in debt, and unless from a rich family, barely ever had much of a chance.

There is this illusion that those who work hard will get a great education and a great job, and that diligence and effort are the solution to the current situation. Of course, nobody ever told these people that as soon as they start doing exactly that en large, they are just part of an arms race between students to outdo each other.... and allow their future employers to skim off the top.

Its not the teachers who should teach better, its not the students who should work harder to become more attractive workers, and its not corporations who by their very design are unable to do anything here, its a matter of government intervention.

Which, ultimately, lays the blame at the door of the White House.

Even from the outside, I feel somewhat sickened by the decline of one of the most important pillars to a modern, stable and working society in the USA. Best of luck to all you teachers, hopefully this president will at least reverse the course of the last one.

"It was always rather focused on teach a small set of core skills and facts, rather than a breadth of knowledge or the ability to self-educate."

This is what bugs me about American education. It seems to me (and take this with a large grain of salt as I have no formal training in education) the best way to educate our populace in order to compete globally is not to focus on memorization, but to focus on creative problem solving and critical thinking skills. Obviously this is easier said than done, and a lot of the tools that could be used to teach creative skills (like music and the arts) are always first on the chopping block because some retarded mouth-breather is getting his panties in a bunch cause the schools don't teach the "basics" anymore.

Obviously the basics are important but that should be a given. We need creative thinkers who can address the unfamiliar and deal with it. We don't need more factory drones, and the American education system is really good at churning out workers as opposed to thinkers.

And no, I don't blame individual educators for this. This is a society-wide issue and one that isn't easily solvable, and frankly this issue won't be addressed until we, as a nation, are in real dire straits.

So Sarah Palin does her speech thing at the Tea Party rally in Nashville saturday night. Then in an interview with Chris Wallace the next morning says she'd feel better if Barack Obama attacked Iran. Then sunday night she goes to Texas and campaigns (ie gives a speech in support) of Gov.Rick Perry (Republican). Whats interesting is that another lady Debra Medina (who is also running for Gov against Perry) is a Tea Party candidate who has started to gain a lot of steam in the state and is moving in the polls.

So this supposedly conservative politician calls out the president to go to war with Iran thus going from a 2 tiered middle east conflict to a 3 tiered (hello draft!). Then helps a republican governor who is for taxes, bailouts and big government over a Tea Party candidate.

Neocons at their finest.