UK Elections 2010

We're currently up to our eyes in scandals and ineffectiveness, so I'm eager to hear how English Chewers feel about their future.

I totally agree about the essential nature of voting, Ken. To many, this will rightly sound about as state the obvious as it gets, but I've been disappointed by some good people's indifference before.

I'm going to have to vote lib dem, even if it means they wont get into power, I just can't vote for cameron or brown. I'd rather just show my support for an alternative. Cant stand all this two party politics we've got going in the UK and the US. So stupid. I think the only way labour are going to get into power again is to start a coalition with the libdems and pick the best of both those parties. But the arrogance and egos of those involved would never go for it.

I've never been so apathetic about politics in my entire life and it's an apathy sweeping the country, which is why fuckos like the BNP and UKIP are gaining power. I can't stand the thought of more ineffectual governance by Labour but I don't want the Tories in either. I'm just going to do what I usually do and vote for the MP who'll best represent my local interests. In this case he's a Green Candidate.

Voting Labour. The recession is slowly but surely recovering, and Brown was left with a Hell of a mess to clear up upon Blair's departure. I'd like to see what the guy would do with a mandate from the people, because so far his biggest crime is a)not grandstanding to the public in the way that Blair did and b)picking some bad people to surround himself with. I'll take that over the empty suit that is Cameron, who has yet to guarantee anything of any substance and who I suspect is deeply in thrall to the Tory elders.

I think the economy is an interesting one, because I think we as a country and, on a larger scale, we as a Western society in tandem with Europe and America bear a lot of the blame as a whole. We were happy to make hay and run rampant with spending and greed, without stopping to consider the consequences. We can't simply point fingers at the government and say "you got us into this mess!" when it comes to the economy. It's far more complex than that. And further, I would argue that the reckless behaviour by the bankers that drove the collapse was fostered waaaay before Labour came to power, with Thatcher and her "every man for himself" credo of the '80s.

Besides, Brown ain't Chancellor any more. Of the three men running for Prime Minister in May, he's the guy I trust for the future. The economy is currently bouncing back, trade is moving back within our borders from China and elsewhere, the NHS is ten times the service it was when Labour took power 13 years ago...If Vince Cable were heading up the Lib Dems I'd consider them, but in my view every vote will count towards stopping the Tories. Thusfar they have given no indication that their core philosophy has changed from that which made Britain so miserable over their last epic reign.

Huh. Very interesting. It must be a symptom (a good one) of a non-two party system, but you guys voting for the Liberal Democrats aren't chewing out Merriweather for not voting for your guys. Man, politics is more fun in America, where we treat it like a football game! USA! USA!

Sorry. I think it's actually very cool you can, you know, talk reasonably about shit and stuff.

Agree with the apathy of the whole thing at the moment. I'd never vote Tory as I detest their basic principles and what are their recent ideas/manifesto anyway? Labour have been there for the taking in the last 18 months and they don't seem to have done anything. They're only what, 7-8 points ahead right now?

It looks like Cameron's election campaign is going to be, "Hey, at least I'm not Gordon Brown!"


Brown seems to be doing his hardest to make people not vote for him, if Labour had a halfway decent leader they'd have my vote, I think their policies for the economy and NHS are right it's just that the entire front bench are awful. None of them are leader material.

I think the ridiculous televised TV debates coming up soon will be a disaster for Brown,
he's such a terrible speaker when put on the spot.

I would consider Lib Dem but they've been in charge of Liverpool Council for years and they are utter, utter fuckwits.

But at the moment the general public wants hangings, Muslim detention camps and Gordon Brown to magically produce jobs out his ass.

The general public wants status quo. Insane fuckers who read the Daily Mail and the Sun want hangings. That's the problem with the majority in this country. We're happy and comfortable and we don't really care. Meanwhile nutters like the people you're describing are claiming to be a majority largely because the real majority can't be bothered to refute it.

As funny as this is, it's pathetic and unnerving in the extreme that there's nothing muscular about the back and forth between the two main parties. There isn't even a figurehead between them that's trustworthy or charismatic enough to inspire the kind of support seen in the U.S. "The Sound of Settling" springs to mind. And that episode of South Park.

BUT

If Labour had got itself a charismatic, media savvy, likeable figurehead after Blair had gone then all the people who were slowly viewing labour as being nothing but spin and lies would have continued to think that. Whilst Brown isn't exactly setting fire to the hearts and minds of the voters his entire term has been about showing a more principled, down to earth labour government. Cameron is essentially Blair 2.0 and the reason he's not being as successful as he should is because people still feel genuinely burnt by Blair.

At the end of the day Cameron's dead disabled son is probably going to win the election for him, because that's the moment he was humanised by a lot of papers.

That's an excellent point, Spike, but Joe Public is characteristically fickle. Sure, the more measured voters (including the Guardian/Times reading stereotype percentage) would take that step back. The layman, however, would be too busy pinning their flagging hopes to the shiny new horse to notice. Not that I'm advocating a hollow package designed to seduce gullible voters; obviously, I'm all about a real step forward. It just seems remarkable to me that there isn't more resilience in either's fight.* The last thing I want to see is a flashy failure in the making.

If I made it sound as though I was talking about some sort of "hotshot" by mentioning charismatic, that was quite unintentional. Nothing would please me more in this regard than someone enthusing people through less superficial means.

* Your point about Brown and his "angle" is also bang-on. It was certainly a welcome alternative at the time. How long ago that feels now, eh?

As usual there'll be a massive anti vote against a party that has been in for too long, this time it'll be enough to put the Tories in, Cameron's sufficiently bland to appeal to middle england and his touch of Scottishness will probably be enough to pick up a couple of seats up there.

I'll be voting by post from Canada, my constituency is Levenshulme in manchester which is an oasis of libdem in a big red sea. I'll vote libdem because I've always hated labour (I cried in 1997 when they got in - and hey, I even left the country) and I couldn't live with myself for voting conservative, but i'll see what other fringe parties are throwing down too for an impulse vote. One time (1997) I voted for a guy who's official election photograph was him in a balaclava.

My main beef is the way that most people feel utterly disconnected with the democratic process and the way that the system is geared up to totally disregard the choices of the people. it's too early in the week for a big rant against democracy but if you can, volunteer to help with the count on election day, I always used to (I also helped with the postal votes and canvassing to register electors) because the council would give you time off your normal job and also pay you a bit extra. It certainly opened my eyes to the pointless futility and ludicrous expense of the current party political system and depressed me utterly as I counted BNP slip after BNP slip.

Or if you just want a laugh:

http://www.andybarefoot.com/politics/cameron.php

Now I feel right at home in this discussion.

I'm strongly involved with the Anti Fascist League and it's legitimately horrifying to see the BNP and UKIP secure power through apathy. It's partially our fault too the higher ups in the AFL won't let us leaflet and talk where we need to, the poor, white areas, where the BNP spin their 'council money helps the darkies, where's yours' bullshit. They do this because they're just not strong enough and resourced enough to make a dent in those areas and even attempting would give the BNP even more fuel.

Edit: My homemade poster

My guitarist sent his proposal for a new album to me the other day on Facebook.

As a guest in your country, I'm looking forward to having a ringside seat for the election process.

One thing I find interesting is that there seems to be a lot more acceptance at Goldsmiths of what we in the US would just consider a fringe element and leave it at that.

One of the guys in my course is a hardcore socialist out of Bristol, and every time I walk around campus or South London, there are a ton of socialist leaflets. (One memorable Saturday afternoon in Lewisham, I walked past a guy handing out leaflets in a full Scooby-Doo costume. Sadly, the camera in my phone sucks.)

It's a fascinating bit of British culture.

Presumeably the election hasn't officially been called yet?

Jim - hopefully you'll see that Socialists are a pretty harmless bunch, this you could then communicate to Fox news who seem to place the behaviour on a par with child-molestation. i hope you enjoy our election process - it takes about a month or so, quite a contrast from the US.

I've noticed that with the ANL and AFA (as I recall) or any grass-roots leftwing group tend to prefer arguing and fighting with themselves than actually making a difference. Plus - and this is solely my experience from working on elections in Manchester - the BNP delegates (shaved gorillas in suits) were polite and quiet, whereas the ANL / anti BNPers were rude, noisy, generally seemed to have far less repect for the democratic process and just wanted attention.

Plus I have a bit of an issue with their techniques of trying to fight fascism by bullying people (possibly because - again - in my experience - some Anti- Fascists started as fascists)rather than win the hearts and minds of a disenfranchised minority - surely that would be the way to rid the world of the BNP. I offer this as a solution because it seems to me that the Far right has much more support now than it has ever had before, making the activities of ANL seem ineffectual.

I anticipate BNP MPs at the next election as an anti-vote to the current regime and it's identical alternatives. Just like in the european elections last year.

Glad you're having fun with cameron guys - it's quite the resource!

I assume Clifton is the tony suburb of Bristol? He would probably punch you for that. He's always going on and on about how the part of Bristol where you have young transient middle-class workers isn't indicative of the city at all. Sounds vaguely Republican once you get down to it.

A month? Really? How's that work, if you don't mind me asking? (Or just point me in the direction of a website, if that's easier.)

I do find it interesting that for all its hateful policies, the BNP more or less keeps its mouth shut, while much like the Repubs back home, the anti-fascism brigade yells louder... yet it doesn't work as well.

I did post the Cameron link on FB for the benefit of my classmates. Thanks!

The BNP don't keep their mouths shut. The press just doesn't bother with them.

Ironically, they're campaigning in Lewisham for the first time ever, and the website we're running is doing a story on that. So, on one hand, we have Mr. Socialist having issues with the piece for journalistic reasons: no comments from alternate anti-BNP sources, which seems a fair argument, but who titled the first email as 'Fascist propaganda?' (Being gentle is not the man's strong suit.) On the other, we have two Swedish and Guatemalan students who think the fact that they're running is story enough.

The emails exchanged have been entertaining, and remind me again that I did the right thing by sticking to covering sports. Less likely to get butthurt (or sued) that way.

ETA: Nice work, Rusty!

And how!

Ha, they're not all mine unfortunately. A few of us had been emailing them back and forth all day, I burst out laughing a few times in work! That website is good fun.

Had a good laugh at this from The Guardian website too..



and one more...

All my research on the BNP has been from way down here in the US southeast. So I'd like to get an honest opinion from you guys about its growth over the last few years. Incremental or exponential?

Also, is Mililband still circling Labour leadership? I've been out of the loop working on other stuff lately. : (

With the BNP the growth isn't enough to threaten national politics, they've got a few MPs and three Members of European Parliament, but it's the fact that over the last eight years they've changed from a joke of a party into something which is getting attention and is getting which is a worry.

Interesting to see so much Lib Dem support. That's how I'm voting, largely as the best of a bad bunch. I used to vote for them cos they had strong policies and decent members. I honestly couldn't tell you anymore. But fuck Labour and buttfuck Cameron. Its that or don't vote.

I think, just in the interest of saving the NHS, I'm going to have to vote for Labour.

Well, except, no. He and Big Gord are level scoring there.

Well Spike, it looks Brown has beaten Cameron to the punch with the 'My dead kid is better than your dead kid' tactic.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp...ClI6KNiO35s7Bg

I don't trust a word the Tories say about the NHS.

They're seriously sharing stories about their dead fucking kids? And here I thought our witless imbeciles were bad.

Cameron's been banging the dead-kid drum for months, but Brown looks like he's has it forced out of him at gunpoint by his advisors. This election's gonna suck.

I bet the televised debates end up like the sob stories from The X Factor. Soft lighting, swelling inspirational ballad, maybe 'On a Day Like This' by Elbow? Brown and Cameron choking back tears, "I..I want to win this for my dead kid", then the soaring violins kick in.

Meanwhile Nick Clegg mentions his dog died last week.

So are these election things still on?

Wasn't there some sort of meeting of the Conservative guys, where the Conservative candidate proved he wasn't insane or stupid and in fact spoke coherently for minutes at a time?

Hung Parliament! Nick Clegg will be kingmaker. Lib dems! Dead dogs!

Maybe you have to be a bit removed to enjoy the sport in it. Perhaps do the Brits look upon our sordid political process with a similar bemusement?

I love how Cameron and his cronies are embracing the Gene Hunt comparison that Labour so foolishly made. Has no-one told him that Hunt is a racist, bribe-taking, violent piece of shit for most of the show? I hate the British public.