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The End of Harry Potter: SPOILERS.

post #1 of 30
1/27/10 at 7:11am
Thread Starter 
Ok started this discussion in another thread but moved it here to avoid more derailing (and to avoid having to put everything in spoilers.)

The reason I hate the ending to Deathly Hallows is it’s a cheat, a cop out ending. Many people have argued it’s giving the fans what the want but I can’t see how you can possibly think that, it’s more like setting things up for a Next Generation of books.

We spent a huge amount of time with these characters and in the aftermath of the battle for Hogwarts that’s who I want to read about. I would rather she had given us the seeds of what will happen in the future. Harry deciding what he wants to do with his life, Ron and Hermione starting out together, What happens to Hogwarts,that sort of thing. Some sort of acknowledgement about how the rest of the world handles the death of Voldermolt. There are so many better and more interesting ways to tie things up (and still give us a happy ending) than jumping forward 20 odd years.

Personally I would have written another chapter as a series of letters between the main charaters, jumping forward in time with each one, ending with them talking about taking their kids to Hogwarts. She could have included all the information she shoehorned in at the end and made it feel more organic.

Anyway rant over, what do you guys think?
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post #2 of 30
1/27/10 at 8:36am
I'll admit that I'm not a huge fan of the very end, but more for my own reasons in regard to writing. Personally, I don't much care for stories jumping ahead large chunks of time, particularly to provide an ending. I wouldn't call it cheap, per se, but it always feels wrong to me for reasons I doubt I'll be able to articulate.

In regards to the actual content of the ending, however, I'd say Rowling made it as palatable for me (in relation to my distaste to the time-skip) as possible. While the names of the kids might have been a bit on the fan-fiction level, I think she did a good job of showing us where are heroes are now and how they've grown.

As for it being merely a setup for a new series of books following their kids - I think you're just reaching a bit too far. Just because they show them sending their kids off to school doesn't mean we're getting set up for new adventures. She's simply bringing Harry and his gang full-circle. Here they are, once again, on the first day at Hogwarts.

If Rowling actually did plan to do a sequel series, it's not like she'd actually need this ending to do it. If anything, including the kids now in such a fashion makes me think she'd do anything but unless the fans really demanded it. And even then, I doubt it.
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post #3 of 30
1/27/10 at 9:12am
Thread Starter 
Prehaps cheap is a strong word but it does seem like we miss out on a lot of the stuff in between the end of the battle for Hogwarts and the rest Harry's life.

LOTR did a much better job of showing time passing and providing information to the reader, hence my letter's idea.
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post #4 of 30
1/27/10 at 9:16am
I much prefer that we're shown what Harry's doing with the rest of his life than having a chapter where he sits around deciding what to do. Besides, we know Harry and Ginny are in love. We know Ron and Hermione are in love -- we've essentially had a 7-book courtship in their case. Do we really need another chapter of them getting married or planning their lives together? It's much more affecting to see them, as Mr. Coombs said, reliving the first day they all met through their children going off to Hogwarts.

As for setting up a sequel, sure, the kids could have adventures, but Voldemort is gone, and it seems like Slytherin has moved from evil to simply cranky and dour. The Malfoy/Potter feud seems pretty much dead. So this ending doesn't seem to me like, "Uh, oh, look out Harry Jr!"
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post #5 of 30
1/27/10 at 9:26am
Thread Starter 
Which is more satisfying though;

The end of LOTR which slowly builds to its "Well I'm home"

Or the end of Potter with it's info dump on a platform?
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post #6 of 30
1/27/10 at 9:37am
The final chapter of LOTR is 9 pages long, and moves pretty quickly from the end of the Battle of Bywater through about two years of time up to the departure of Frodo. It's not exactly a slow build.
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post #7 of 30
1/27/10 at 11:24am
I think the chilly, distanced acknowledgement between adult Draco and Harry is one of the more important moments of the ending. It illustrates that even though Harry's stuck his neck out for Draco and his family, they're never going to be friends. And part of being an adult, part of growing up, is acknowledging that you don't have to like everyone you know, and that even if you get over a boyhood feud, you might never be more than aquaintances with people. It's a nice moment.
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post #8 of 30
1/27/10 at 11:39am
However, that's a moment I can see getting softened in the film, turned into some kind of warm, knowing nod, ala "You're not that bad, Potter."
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post #9 of 30
1/27/10 at 11:45am
I'm just worried how the ending of the movie is going to play, effects wise. They're talking about doing some Benjamin Button type effects. I think given how Radcliffe, Watson, Grint look now, especially since they've gotten as tall and as grown as they'll probably get, it would be much easier to do it with makeup rather than a CGI fest.
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post #10 of 30
1/27/10 at 11:48am
Giving them conservative, adult wardrobes and haircuts would easily add years to their appearances.
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post #11 of 30
1/27/10 at 12:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RathBandu View Post
I'm just worried how the ending of the movie is going to play, effects wise. They're talking about doing some Benjamin Button type effects. I think given how Radcliffe, Watson, Grint look now, especially since they've gotten as tall and as grown as they'll probably get, it would be much easier to do it with makeup rather than a CGI fest.
Regardless of how they do it for next year's release (CGI, makeup, whatever ...), they should regroup in 19 years and shoot it again for all future releases from that point on. That would be unprecedented, but this series has already done a good many things that have been unprecedented.
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post #12 of 30
1/27/10 at 12:15pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
The final chapter of LOTR is 9 pages long, and moves pretty quickly from the end of the Battle of Bywater through about two years of time up to the departure of Frodo. It's not exactly a slow build.
Nine pages is actually quite a bit of paper. Although its been a while since I read it, it felt a lot less rushed than the platform sequence.
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post #13 of 30
1/27/10 at 12:38pm
The basic theme of the books, to me, is that adolescence is excuciatingly hard. You make friends, enemies, the world doesn't fit in the box you originally put it in, and sometimes even people you love die and don't see you through. The ending, for me, is letting the kids reading these books know it really is going to be okay. So it's very important. Sure, some of the details are convenient and fudged, but the message remains.
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post #14 of 30
1/27/10 at 12:47pm
I'm baffled as to how ANYONE who invested in this world enough to read all seven books would be disappointed by that coda. Or even HALLOWS as a whole.
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post #15 of 30
1/27/10 at 1:38pm
The ending of the book reads weird, but it also sets up for a note perfect cinematic ending. What better way to end the series than a shot of Harry watching the Hogwarts train pull out of the station, his son on board, reflecting on how just yesterday it was him on that train. He turns around to leave Platform 9 3/4, getting on with the rest of his life, camera starts to pull back, one final, quiet rendition of the theme, black, credits.

There, fanwank done.
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post #16 of 30
1/27/10 at 1:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Clark View Post
He turns around to leave Platform 9 3/4, getting on with the rest of his life, camera starts to pull back, one final, quiet rendition of the theme, black, "The End...?" appears on screen.

There, fanwank done.
Fixed...?
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post #17 of 30
1/27/10 at 1:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merriweather View Post
I'm baffled as to how ANYONE who invested in this world enough to read all seven books would be disappointed by that coda. Or even HALLOWS as a whole.
For me, it was never the content. I like the ending and it's a nice little wrap up. But it does feel awkward. The dialogue is way too clunky. It feels like she wrote it years ago when she was just starting out and decided not to change it. Rowling improved greatly as a writer over the books and the ending just felt like the Rowling of the first book.
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post #18 of 30
1/27/10 at 1:44pm
I like Greg's fanwank, especially since it would tie in nicely with the end of the first film, with the train pulling away from Hogwarts and Hagrid walking back towards the school.
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post #19 of 30
1/27/10 at 1:45pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan S~ View Post
For me, it was never the content. I like the ending and it's a nice little wrap up. But it does feel awkward. The dialogue is way too clunky. It feels like she wrote it years ago when she was just starting out and decided not to change it. Rowling improved greatly as a writer over the books and the ending just felt like the Rowling of the first book.
I was going to comment on this as well. I think she painted herself into a corner when she wrote the ending before finishing the rest of the series. You can really tell it's from an earlier draft.

Just to clarify I love the idea of the ending I just think the execution is poor.
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post #20 of 30
1/27/10 at 1:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan S~ View Post
For me, it was never the content. I like the ending and it's a nice little wrap up. But it does feel awkward. The dialogue is way too clunky. It feels like she wrote it years ago when she was just starting out and decided not to change it. Rowling improved greatly as a writer over the books and the ending just felt like the Rowling of the first book.
I can buy that. Probably could have used another pass when she finished the last chapter. But I agree with the sentiment and I like the idea of revisiting them on the day their kids go to Hogwarts for the first time.
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post #21 of 30
1/27/10 at 1:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RathBandu View Post
I like Greg's fanwank, especially since it would tie in nicely with the end of the first film, with the train pulling away from Hogwarts and Hagrid walking back towards the school.
I wouldn't mind something along the lines of Ginny looking at Harry and asking if he's okay, and Harry smiling and saying "All's well." But that sounds clunky spoken, and worked better in the book.
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post #22 of 30
1/27/10 at 1:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan "Nordling" Cerny View Post
I wouldn't mind something along the lines of Ginny looking at Harry and asking if he's okay, and Harry smiling.
[/end fanfic]

Fixed that for ya. Sometimes words are unneccesary.
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post #23 of 30
1/27/10 at 2:01pm
Yep. That's better.
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post #24 of 30
1/27/10 at 8:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
Giving them conservative, adult wardrobes and haircuts would easily add years to their appearances.
...and beards. They should have beards.

All four of them.

For me that Harry called his son Albus Severus made my heart hurt in the best way possible.

Rowling for the win.
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post #25 of 30
1/28/10 at 12:18am
I just watched Half-Blood Prince today on DVD and I watched the documentary that came with it about J.K. Rowling. It followed her for a year, from her finishing writing Deathly Hallows to the premier of the Order of the Phoenix movie, all the way to the launch of book 7.

She really looked like she was relieved more than anything to finish book 7. So if it feels rushed, it probably was. She looked like a huge weight had been lifted off her shoulders when she delivered the manuscript.

The most interesting part was when she wrote out the "family tree" of all the principal characters and the filmmaker says, "That's enough for a whole book" and Rowling is just about to say "Yes," but pauses once she realizes she'd have to write the thing.

FWIW, I did not have a problem with the ending at all. I liked it.
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post #26 of 30
11/9/10 at 3:26pm
Okay, I apologize in advance if this is in the wrong thread. I'm not sure if this should be in a Deathly Hallows pre-release thread because it deals with spoilers, etc, but here goes.

Last night I was checking out the track listing for part one of The Deathly Hallows, and it appears that they're splitting the book after Harry buries Dobby. Which means that the bulk of the actual novel occurs in the first movie, and I'm not sure that's a great idea.

Thematically, it makes some sense. As Harry's burying Dobby, he decides to go after the Horcruxes instead of the Deathly Hallows, which is an emotional turning point for the character. However, in terms of actual action beats, the two big set pieces in the second film will be breaking into Gringotts and the Battle of Hogwarts. I don't think there's enough narrative there to sustain a 2.5+ hour movie.

As I see it, the second movie would be almost all action without enough story to go around. Whereas there's too much story and too much going on in the first one for a movie that's only 2.25 hours long. It seems to that they're trying to avoid a non-ending with the first part at the expense of a better narrative for the second movie.

Thoughts?
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post #27 of 30
11/9/10 at 3:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devildoubt View Post
Okay, I apologize in advance if this is in the wrong thread. I'm not sure if this should be in a Deathly Hallows pre-release thread because it deals with spoilers, etc, but here goes.

Last night I was checking out the track listing for part one of The Deathly Hallows, and it appears that they're splitting the book after Harry buries Dobby. Which means that the bulk of the actual novel occurs in the first movie, and I'm not sure that's a great idea.

Thematically, it makes some sense. As Harry's burying Dobby, he decides to go after the Horcruxes instead of the Deathly Hallows, which is an emotional turning point for the character. However, in terms of actual action beats, the two big set pieces in the second film will be breaking into Gringotts and the Battle of Hogwarts. I don't think there's enough narrative there to sustain a 2.5+ hour movie.

As I see it, the second movie would be almost all action without enough story to go around. Whereas there's too much story and too much going on in the first one for a movie that's only 2.25 hours long. It seems to that they're trying to avoid a non-ending with the first part at the expense of a better narrative for the second movie.

Thoughts?
Just finished re-reading DH and there is plenty of material for a second film, even discounting the long battle sequences. There's the meeting with Aberforth Dumbledore and all that complicated backstory. There's the long flashback of Snape that will require a shitload of exposition. And there's the whole "death" conversation with Dumbledore and all that wand lore info. Not to mention they'll probably extend that last chapter before the epilogue to give all the adult actors a nice send-off. Rowling kind of just shoves all the teachers and parents off to the side at the end after V is defeated.

That's 2+ hours easy.
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post #28 of 30
11/9/10 at 4:03pm
I agree. I think the last act needs time to unfold. Especially Harry´s "final walk" and the subsequent scenes require quite a bit breathing room to achieve impact. It would be an enormous mistake to rush this scenes in favour of action beats. Especially in the context of the prior 6 movies.
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post #29 of 30
11/9/10 at 5:51pm
You guys don't think they're putting too much into the first one?
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post #30 of 30
11/9/10 at 6:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devildoubt View Post
You guys don't think they're putting too much into the first one?
There's a lot of Harry and Hermoine roaming around the woods being miserable that they can get rid of. I wouldn't be surprised if they completely jettison the final Dursleys scene, too.
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