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Paycheck Roles

post #1 of 50
Thread Starter 
This is not a thread to list actors who took jobs for the paycheck. I just want to make that clear.

I saw this brought up in the Wall Street discussion, and also in the Ford thread, but saying "that actor takes jobs for the paycheck" is one of the laziest criticisms you can make about an actor. Yes, there's a big difference between The Mosquito Coast and Extraordinary Measures, between Dreamgirls and Imagine That, Adaptation. and The Sorcerer's Apprentice, and between Wonder Boys and Wall Street. But I think to criticize an actor for taking a job just for the money is silly, and often unfounded, if not insulting.

I think that, especially in America, especially since the rise of the Method actor and the Actors' Studio, you've seen a fetishization of the idea of acting as a calling, as something noble. And I agree -- I've blabbed a half-dozen times about how I love actors, love listening to them talk about acting, that it's comparable to a kind of magic. But it is also a job. It is also something done for an audience -- without it, all that Methodology would be for nothing. I think it's funny how we revere Christopher Walken for taking any job that comes his way, simply because the man likes to work. See also: Caine, Michael, up until he won his second Oscar.

A job is something you do because you have to sometimes, even if you don't like it. I think this explains De Niro's career as of late, and, to a similar extent, Nicolas Cage's. I'm sure De Niro's not happy appearing in some of the movies he's done -- especially something as low-rent as Righteous Kill -- but the man had bills and divorce settlements to pay. It's clear Cage likes spending money.

As for the money issue, I keep coming back to something Moltisanti said about Jackie Earl Haley being Freddy Kruger: "Let the man buy a nice house." I think for a lot of these actors, not necessarily movie stars, but guys we like, that sentiment is valid.

Finally, I think that there's a lot to be said for finding out why an actor took a role that might seem like a paycheck role. I've read a lot of interviews with actors who have remarked that they took this job because they wanted to work with a particular director, a particular actor, or go to a particular location. Joseph Gordon-Levitt took G.I. Joe because he liked how his character looked.

Obviously, I think the best actors are able to find a balance between taking high-paying jobs where they don't have to challenge themselves much and lower-paying jobs where they can, or actors who "always show up to play" (Stanley Tucci springs to mind, as does Matt Damon), regardless of the movie they're in.

Anyway. Just some rambling thoughts on this.
post #2 of 50
Can't speak for everyone. But regarding Walken, I respect him for his openness. None of those standard bullshit answers as you accurately listed and like we always hear. Just plain "I like to work" answer says it all.
post #3 of 50
Thread Starter 
Yeah, but we shouldn't treat Walken's "I like to work" any less than somebody's "I wanted an addition to my house" (which I think is even more open and realistic than "I like to work") or "I wanted to work with such and such a director." For a lot of actors in that last category, those opportunities don't come around very often, unless you're a character actor.
post #4 of 50
Paccino specifically said in an interview that the worse the script, the more money he was offered. And took. So he KNEW the movies were pieces of shit.
post #5 of 50
I think people often refer to this sort of thing not as a direct criticism of the actor but as a way of saying that they think he's better than a particular role, or even worse, better than the career he/she has carved out for himself. Can't knock a guy for taking a paycheck, but you sure as hell can bemoan the fact that he's not doing better work.
post #6 of 50
Thread Starter 
It's clear, though, Pacino -- unlike De Niro -- took most of those roles so he could go off and do interesting stuff like Looking for Richard and direct little independent movies and support his stage career. And while Pacino has been in some pieces of shit, I think he's always been entertaining in them, which is why I like him over De Niro -- De Niro phoning it in (which is a separate issue) is boring, Pacino in a paycheck role is almost always guaranteed to be entertaining.
post #7 of 50
Nah, no way. Two For The Money, The recruit, 88 minutes, People I Know, Simone, all terrible. All with a boring Paccino. All with him phoning it in. I am partial to DeNiro myself these days.
post #8 of 50
Just to be clear, neither WONDER BOYS or WALL STREET are paycheck performances for Michael Douglas. I agree that it's a lazy criticism but those are fine, fine work from Douglas. THE AMERICAN PRESIDENT, too.
post #9 of 50
Ben Affleck took the biggest PAYCHECK role.

Sorry.

I will say that Ford's problem seems to be that he COULD be doing more interesting stuff, but he has terrible taste in projects.
post #10 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by RathBandu View Post
Yeah, but we shouldn't treat Walken's "I like to work" any less than somebody's "I wanted an addition to my house" (which I think is even more open and realistic than "I like to work") or "I wanted to work with such and such a director." For a lot of actors in that last category, those opportunities don't come around very often, unless you're a character actor.
With the exception of the true movie stars (what few of those there are) who are in a position to actually tip-toe their career, I generally look at any actor taking a role as "work is work." No harm, no foul. They have bills to pay, kids to put through school, etc.

I was lamenting earlier this week about an actor as fucking retard-talented as James Marsden headlining an Easter Bunny movie. Is that a strike against him? Of course not. The man has a wife and two small children to support, and the pay is good. My lamenting was towards Hollywood for having an actor like him (who imo can play just about anything) and not have him starring in something better suited to his talents.
post #11 of 50
Thread Starter 
Okay, Wonder Boys or The In-Laws, Captain Correction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tati
Nah, no way. Two For The Money, The recruit, 88 minutes, People I Know, Simone, all terrible. All with a boring Paccino. All with him phoning it in. I am partial to DeNiro myself these days.
He's good in Two for the Money, and Matthew McConaguhey is better for it, but the movie's not great, true. I haven't seen the others you've mentioned, but maybe we just have different tastes. I like some yelling Pacino.

Marsden's a great example of being able to elevate stuff he's in because he's that talented and capable at his job. 27 Dresses, for one. (I also think his problem is that people still see him as Cyclops, and the rom-com market right now is such crap.)
post #12 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by RathBandu View Post
I saw this brought up in the Wall Street discussion, and also in the Ford thread, but saying "that actor takes jobs for the paycheck" is one of the laziest criticisms you can make about an actor. Yes, there's a big difference between The Mosquito Coast and Extraordinary Measures, between Dreamgirls and Imagine That, Adaptation. and The Sorcerer's Apprentice, and between Wonder Boys and Wall Street. But I think to criticize an actor for taking a job just for the money is silly, and often unfounded, if not insulting.
Just to clarify, are you suggesting that Wonder Boys is somehow a lesser film or a lesser performance than Wall Street? Because that's just crazy talk.

Quote:
See also: Caine, Michael, up until he won his second Oscar.
Michale Caine has always seen his acting career as a job. He thinks it's his duty to do a movie if his signing gets other people work. Who is he to let his pride stand in the way of allowing lots of people to work?

He also admits to taking crappy gigs because of circumstances. Jaws 4 paid him a million dollars to spend two months in a tropical paradise with his family.

His taking less roles lately has more to do with his age, his passion for his restaurants and wanting to spend more time at home rather than getting picky about roles.

Quote:
As for the money issue, I keep coming back to something Moltisanti said about Jackie Earl Haley being Freddy Kruger: "Let the man buy a nice house." I think for a lot of these actors, not necessarily movie stars, but guys we like, that sentiment is valid.
I so agree with this. There are actors we love who we want to see do great things but part of me also wants to see them finaly get some monetary compensation for years of hard work. Haley is a great example of this.
post #13 of 50
Marsden takes a hit not just because he's heavily associated with one character, but because said character was horribly bland and underwritten. Poor guy.
post #14 of 50
Thread Starter 
I only bring up Caine's post-Cider House Rules work because I seem to recall an interview where he said that winning that Oscar reminded him that he was still capable of doing good work, and that he wanted to be a little more disconcerting with his choices from then on.
post #15 of 50
I've read of actors taking roles because their kids liked the character, or because the film was shooting in a location they'd never been to. It's pretty much a high profile freelance job.
post #16 of 50
Gary Oldman does that. He picks depending on how far away from his kids the movie shoots.
post #17 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merriweather View Post
Marsden takes a hit not just because he's heavily associated with one character, but because said character was horribly bland and underwritten. Poor guy.
Not to mention of the big movies the masses saw him in (with the exception of Hairspray), he's essentially played variations of "the other guy."
post #18 of 50
Brando the paycheck gig mercenary was a Dylan-esque 'fuck you', but alas also unfortunate artistic precedent for the generations that worshiped him. Whatever happened to "no sell out, or get the hell out"?
post #19 of 50
Thread Starter 
I think that's a relatively new sentiment, though, and a lot of it has to do with the whole "actor as artist" that the Method and the acting schools of the early 50s made popular. You wouldn't have heard people busting Cary Grant's chops for taking a paycheck role.
post #20 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Elvis View Post
Brando the paycheck gig mercenary was a Dylan-esque 'fuck you', but alas also unfortunate artistic precedent for the generations that worshiped him. Whatever happened to "no sell out, or get the hell out"?
I think Orson Welles did it long before Brando.
post #21 of 50
I never used paycheck gig as an insult/criticism as much as a description of the type of film or performance to expect. The film may suck, but I'm not going to slag anyone for that. I wish I could come in to work, put in the minimal effort, and earn more than most people will ever see in their life. More power to them to have achieved that level of success (for lack of a better term), and that success was likely achieved by taking on a lot of low paying, but interesting and daring roles.
post #22 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by RathBandu View Post
I only bring up Caine's post-Cider House Rules work because I seem to recall an interview where he said that winning that Oscar reminded him that he was still capable of doing good work, and that he wanted to be a little more disconcerting with his choices from then on.
I think that has to do with legacy as well as his other reasons. I mean the guys going to be 77 this year so between time and legacy I think he's kinda smart to be slowing down and being choosy.

Also, he's no longer the name that gets movies made like he once was in Britain.
post #23 of 50
I think it's important to differentiate Paycheck Role from Contractually Obligated for a Certain Number of Films Role though. For instance, Norton in The Italian Job. Sometimes you take the next crap part just to get the hell out of dodge.
post #24 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by RathBandu View Post
I saw this brought up in the Wall Street discussion, and also in the Ford thread, but saying "that actor takes jobs for the paycheck" is one of the laziest criticisms you can make about an actor... But I think to criticize an actor for taking a job just for the money is silly, and often unfounded, if not insulting.
The distinction to be made is here is when an actor takes a role simply for the paycheck, and when an actor appears to be playing the role simply for a paycheck. Or, when an actor exudes laziness and indifference for reasons irrelevant to story and character. De Niro in almost everything in the past 20 years. Cage, when he isn't embarrassingly hammy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RathBandu View Post
I've blabbed a half-dozen times about how I love actors, love listening to them talk about acting, that it's comparable to a kind of magic.
Really? Why are these people so magical to you? I can count on one hand living thesps who I feel have anything insightful to say about their craft and their careers, and those actors seldom do interviews, have unusually high IQs (James Woods), or are better known as playwrights (Sam Shepard).

Quote:
Originally Posted by RathBandu View Post
I think it's funny how we revere Christopher Walken for taking any job that comes his way, simply because the man likes to work.
I don't revere Christopher Walken. I've grown tired of Christopher Walken for doing the same thing since the 1990s. I haven't seen him grow as an actor, to take on any compelling or challenging projects in the last decade. Yes, he managed an Oscar nomination during that time, but neither the film nor his performance lingered in my mind. I don't care if he likes to work; I want him to give me a reason as to why I should continue to see his movies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RathBandu View Post
A job is something you do because you have to sometimes, even if you don't like it. I think this explains De Niro's career as of late, and, to a similar extent, Nicolas Cage's. I'm sure De Niro's not happy appearing in some of the movies he's done -- especially something as low-rent as Righteous Kill -- but the man had bills and divorce settlements to pay. It's clear Cage likes spending money.
Where are you going with this? Are you suggesting we excuse a movie star's laziness and incompetence on the basis of financial hardships?
post #25 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Miller View Post
I think it's important to differentiate Paycheck Role from Contractually Obligated for a Certain Number of Films Role though. For instance, Norton in The Italian Job. Sometimes you take the next crap part just to get the hell out of dodge.
Here's where this thread becomes "I have no taste" and for that I apologize. I'm not fond of Ed Norton as an actor. I don't see many changes from role to role with him. It's the same problem people have with Christian Bale. He's usually hopelessly schlumpy or intense brooding guy. I don't see the range that people keep insisting he has.

Again, my apologies for this slip in to "I have no taste."
post #26 of 50
Actors aren't magical, and Wonder Boys was terrific.
post #27 of 50
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malmordo View Post
Where are you going with this? Are you suggesting we excuse a movie star's laziness and incompetence on the basis of financial hardships?
I don't think Cage is a lazy actor at all, massive paycheck roles or not.
post #28 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by RathBandu View Post
I don't think Cage is a lazy actor at all, massive paycheck roles or not.
I think he's occasionally lazy at his work (falling into broad character strokes rather than finding anything interesting to play) but he's certainly not lazy in terms of the amount of work he does.
post #29 of 50
No mention of Samual Leroy Jackson yet?
post #30 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan S~ View Post
I think he's occasionally lazy at his work (falling into broad character strokes rather than finding anything interesting to play) but he's certainly not lazy in terms of the amount of work he does.
Again, I don't care how much the actor works. That makes no difference to me when I open my wallet, and it shouldn't to you.
post #31 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Elvis View Post
Brando the paycheck gig mercenary was a Dylan-esque 'fuck you', but alas also unfortunate artistic precedent for the generations that worshiped him. Whatever happened to "no sell out, or get the hell out"?
Yeah but Brando was a bit of a(or rather became a more obvious) crackpot and could change with the wind. I remember hearing of him donating his paycheck for A DRY WHITE SEASON to anti-apartheid groups, putting the other major actors in the moral corner in the process. Maybe he just worked for union, I can't recall. All after folks insisted it was a 'mortgage payment' role after sitting out for so long. And he ended up nominated for his role in that.

Also, unless the conversation is going to turn to folks like Robert Davi, Leo Rossi and the realm of Hollywood's real working stiffs, I think splitting hairs over the motivation of De Niro and company is a bit parochial.

What about the dustbin dilemma of tons of golden age stars? Joseph Cotten wasn't picking mexploitation films as a way to stretch his thespian wings. Hollywood has a way of making the "paycheck" role decision not exactly the actor's alone. Which I think speaks to Rath's original point.
post #32 of 50
There's nothing wrong with doing a film for money. Morgan Freeman said that's why he took the role of Lucius Fox. I think it's clearly doing a really shitty film for the cash.

Of course, that's what David Cross did.
post #33 of 50
"They drove a dump truck full of money up to my house. I'm not made of stone!" -Krusty the Clown
post #34 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malmordo View Post
Again, I don't care how much the actor works. That makes no difference to me when I open my wallet, and it shouldn't to you.
I'm not sure why your one-way relationship with these actors is so antagonistic.
post #35 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malmordo View Post
Again, I don't care how much the actor works. That makes no difference to me when I open my wallet, and it shouldn't to you.
First, I wasn't defending his roles or the amount of crap he makes.

And, second...uhm...dude, that seems to be a lot of anger. You feeling okay?
post #36 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdHocken View Post

Of course, that's what David Cross did.
David Cross pisses me off. The guy is clearly a talent but he so clearly wants to be an iconoclast but just doesn't have the chutzpah to just go for it. So, he whines and bitches about other people.
post #37 of 50
I don't hold it against actors for taking a "paycheck" role. I remember hearing an interview with Ben Stiller where he talked about how after the "Ben Stiller Show" ended he spent an entire year not being able to get work and how he promised himself to not get caught in that same trap again. The way careers are in Hollywood you could go cold tomorrow and nobody wants to book you.

Also it's a job, some days your doing something for your job that you enjoy and sometimes your stuck doing something shitty. It's not the actors fault that we put them on these pedestals and them knock them off of them at a moments notice. They're just people doing what they always wanted to do for a living. It's not like I have to go see every movie Al Pachino is in regardless of the quality.
post #38 of 50
My two favorite opinions on this are courtesy of Bruce Campbell and Ron Perlman. In his book If Chins Could Kill, Campbell says that he accepted his tiny role because of the Costa Rica location, and since he wasn't required to be on the set for long periods of time, he made like a tourist and explored Costa Rica, all on the studio's time and dime.

Perlman, on the other hand, has one of my favorite quotes of all time about acting: ""I'm doing weapons training for this piece of shit, then I go to Romania to shoot another piece of shit, then come back to shoot my part in this piece of shit...[sighs]...What can I say? My wife loves shoes."
post #39 of 50
Is Campbell talking about Congo? Nobody should ever discuss Congo.
post #40 of 50
I'm a huge fan of finding a classic 'paycheck' rolls in B-horror and sci-fi films. Christopher Plummer in Starchrash is a personal favorite because I find myself genuinely interested in what led him to such a thing. People like Christopher Lee and Klaus Kinski talk regularly about seeing themselves as professionals that will give there best if the money is there, and they're regularly the best thing about less than good movies. Sometimes you can see the alcoholism or drug addiction in the eyes of one time dignified actors and it's genuinely depressing (Cameron Mitchelle?), but usually its amusing.

and Wonder Boys is a classic.
post #41 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe Powers View Post
I'm a huge fan of finding a classic 'paycheck' rolls in B-horror and sci-fi films. Christopher Plummer in Starchrash is a personal favorite because I find myself genuinely interested in what led him to such a thing. People like Christopher Lee and Klaus Kinski talk regularly about seeing themselves as professionals that will give there best if the money is there, and they're regularly the best thing about less than good movies. Sometimes you can see the alcoholism or drug addiction in the eyes of one time dignified actors and it's genuinely depressing (Cameron Mitchelle?), but usually its amusing.

and Wonder Boys is a classic.
John Carradine fell somewhere in between. Who can forget the haunting theme to Red Zone Cuba "Night Train to Mondo Fine"?
post #42 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe Powers View Post
I'm a huge fan of finding a classic 'paycheck' rolls in B-horror and sci-fi films. Christopher Plummer in Starchrash is a personal favorite because I find myself genuinely interested in what led him to such a thing. People like Christopher Lee and Klaus Kinski talk regularly about seeing themselves as professionals that will give there best if the money is there, and they're regularly the best thing about less than good movies. Sometimes you can see the alcoholism or drug addiction in the eyes of one time dignified actors and it's genuinely depressing (Cameron Mitchelle?), but usually its amusing.
Kirk Douglas in Saturn 3 comes to mind.
post #43 of 50
Bruce Campbell. How can he makes his great masterpiece if his canvas is torn, his paints dried up, and his brush covered in fake monster blood? Actually, I heard he doesn't even watch movies anymore.
post #44 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by RathBandu View Post
Okay, Wonder Boys or The In-Laws, Captain Correction.



He's good in Two for the Money, and Matthew McConaguhey is better for it, but the movie's not great, true. I haven't seen the others you've mentioned, but maybe we just have different tastes. I like some yelling Pacino.

Marsden's a great example of being able to elevate stuff he's in because he's that talented and capable at his job. 27 Dresses, for one. (I also think his problem is that people still see him as Cyclops, and the rom-com market right now is such crap.)
I love Marsden in Sex Drive, Enchanted(Seriously, he's awesome in that) and even in Superman Returns, where he gets a more thrilling action scene than Superman ever did.
post #45 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan S~ View Post
John Carradine fell somewhere in between. Who can forget the haunting theme to Red Zone Cuba "Night Train to Mondo Fine"?
From what I understand Carradine was pretty much considered a joke through most of his career, but we've come to respect him over the years. He's certainly been in a lot of movies though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmNerdJamie
Kirk Douglas in Saturn 3 comes to mind.
It seemed like a paycheck gig for Farrah Fawcett too, wasn't she still pretty hot at the time? Maybe it looked better on paper? Holocaust 2000 was definitely a Omen rip-off though, if I'm remembering right, which probably should've been below him at the time.
post #46 of 50
In the "general audience" crowd, I think the criticism that a person takes a gig specifically for the paycheck is, more often than not, lazy. However, in a community such as this one, I think the criticism comes from a place that is kind of rarely explored in our discourse: we actually care about these careers.

Pacino, Deniro, Ford, and Douglas are some of my favorite actors of all time. When they are actually in quality productions and give a shit about what they're doing, they can make something really special happen on the screen. When you think about how every opportunity a person takes necessarily entails opportunity costs, you become very much aware that the films they do that are shit are not only shit films but they're films that are taking the place of films that could have been better. It sort of makes you angry.

Seeing Pacino and Deniro do something like Righteous Kill , for instance, not only takes away an opportunity for us to see them do something like that again, but it also takes a potentially good Deniro and a potentially good Pacino movie off the table. It also pisses all over the legacy of the good things they did do together, like Heat.

The same kind of thing holds for Douglas and Ford. Not only are movies like Ghosts of Girlfriends Past and Extraordinary Measures shitty movies, but they actually take the place of projects that could be good. The fact that Wall Street: Money Never Sleeps looks like the first good Douglas movie in ten years is just depressing.

Speaking of Ford's latest abortion, I'd also like to throw Brendan Fraser in here. The guy is a good actor and has done some wonderful films--School Ties, Gods and Monsters, and The Quiet American--but he has also starred in nothing but fucking paycheck films since 2002.*

That is, I think we're all railing against mediocrity here, which isn't such a bad thing.

*I'm not going after the guy because these have all been b-movies and action films. I'm going after him because they were all shitty b-movies and action films. If Fraser and Douglas would stick to b-films that were more like The Mummy--the first one--and The Ghost and the Darkness, I'd be thrilled with those choices.
post #47 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cigam Retah View Post
Is Campbell talking about Congo? Nobody should ever discuss Congo.
*smacks head* Yeah, he's discussing Congo... which I must admit I like in a guilty pleasure way. How can I not, with a cast that includes Campbell (albeit briefly), Joe Don Baker, Joey Pants, Laura Linney, Tim Curry, Delroy Lindo and Winston Zeddemore?
post #48 of 50
It's been awhile since I read this, but I like the story Campbell tells when a fan questions his choice in being in Congo. He breaks it down pretty methodically as to how it sounds like a slam dunk on paper: from the producers and the author of Jurassic Park, an acadmey award winner screenwriter(John Patrick Shanley, I believe), etc.

I don't remember the rest, but he did make a convincing argument as to why someone would take a chance to participate in Congo thinking it's going to be outstanding. The trip to Costa Rica was just the icing on the cake. I guess it turned out to be the only thing worthwhile, and that's really understandable.

As to Al Pacino: I know it's difficult to think he's still interesting lately, but the man did give an excellent performance as Roy Cohn in Angels in America early in the last decade. It looks like he's getting that crew-cut back when he plays Dr. Jack Kevorkian in an HBO movie coming out sometime this year. I'm really looking forward to that.

As distracting as his performance was in Stardust, at least De Niro looked like he was having fun with the role. Can't knock that.
post #49 of 50
Robert DeNiro and Al Pacino were the first "quality' actors I was aware of growing up. I came to expect (was trained to expect?) that seeing either in a movie was an Event. So when DeNiro starts appearing in Rocky and Bullwinkle and Pacino becomes a caricature (HO-HAW!), it does give me the impression that a great talent is going to waste.

Seeing Bruce Campell in Bubba Hotep or Christopher Lee in almost any role I get a similar feeling. Here are actors who have a lot of talent but who were sidetracked and typecast.

Jodie Foster had a nice comment on her own career, to the effect that she felt lucky in her ability to go for roles that she was interested in vs a paycheck, so she never had to "be the greatest grape (in a Fruit of the Loom ad) she could be".

And I think out of all the actors I mentioned above, she still retains a certain mystique the others lost or never had.
post #50 of 50
These paycheck roles usually end up looking bad by comparison to the fact that there are careers such as Jodie Foster's (as mentioned above) and even greater... Daniel Day Lewis.

Alec Baldwin had something to say on the subject in a recent WIRED interview. Basically, most actors need to be plumbers. A plumber doesn't reject a job because it doesn't suit his tastes/standards. But still...
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