Lost: Season 6 Discussion Thread - Page 121

Good point, fuzzy.

Also, ignoring Jack & Locke, there hasn't been such black & white splits in the castaways camp, but there's been ample divisions. Constant bickering, mistrust, betrayal, torture, infighting etc. I don't know why there has to be a rigid TWO-SIDED split for Devin to be happy. Lost has turned out to be more about the gray area between the two sides, and how people waver between them, more than anything... which even the Locke & Jack relationship/philosophies mirror (with their eventual role reversal).

I think the two sided split is there, it just doesn't have the widespread ramifications of something like the Dharma initiative / the others, where you have two distinct groups of people clashing. The castaways never really actively take sides, so the conflict is scaled back in a way.

But the outcome of all of the major events of the first 4 seasons (opening the hatch, pushing the button, signaling the freighter) have been directly tied to the ideological clash between Jack and Locke.

um... MICHAEL? Also i seem to remember Mr. Eko trying to stop Locke and Desmond from letting the button go unpushed with dynamite, and Charlie was more than willing to help fuck over Locke in any way, regardless of the reasoning. The 815 survivors have been rife with conflict from the beginning.

Also we've learned that even the others are passive pawns in the plot. I'd even go so far as to say Jacob and the MiB are as well. I'm having a hard time understanding what your argument is here. Weren't you the one criticizing the show for splitting up the cast so much throughout the seasons?

Great episode, just annoying that it has come at the end of such a frustrating season.

The show has clearly changed from what it once was, but I think they went too far away from that base for no discernible reason. The flashsideways were notionally an attempt to get back to character work, but they were pointless in the context of the show as they were intrinsically not the same people.

The whole season would have been much more fulfilling if Desmond's involvement in the flash-sideways started much earlier in the year. The episodes before that are largely pointless, particularly as everything around the Temple bar the light-house and the cave wall was entirely useless and barely entertaining.

I seem to remember them saying a while back that there was going to be a split built around Mr Eko factions and Locke factions. Which had to be dropped when Adewale wanted to leave the show.

They then tried the man of science v man of faith Jack v Locke thing, and it reared it's head a few times, but they never really followed through with it.

Also for a long time there was a massive split between the Losties and Ben's people.

Damn it, Deanburger! Now I'll be made if that isn't the ending of Lost!


Seriously, as far as the sideways reality, in "Across the Sea," when the boys are playing the game, the Boy in Black complains that Jacob cannot make specific move. You posters noted the move was sideways. Perhaps now that Jacob can make the rules, this sideways reality is his sideways move.

I originally thought the sideways reality would be MIB's temptation for the candidates so he could leave (island destroyed). Now it looks like something in Jacob's favor. Desmond is the failsafe. Sideways Desmond is now gathering and preparing the sideways counterparts (it seems Hurley already knows). We'll see how it all plays out in the finale. But, I think we will learn the nature and the purpose of the flashsideways.

Another thought. Jacob said they were candidates because they were lonely, just as he was. Being the protector is a lonely job. But, maybe the endgame involves Jack along with the help of his friends (Sawyer, Kate, Hurley) to stop MIB.

Another thought, can Jack now make up the rules?

One more thing. I know the group now seems set on killing Smokey. But, knowing the writers are Star Wars fans, I still see the endgame may be someway of redeeming MIB. Maybe the actions of Jack (or the group) prove Jacob right about man. Or maybe the endgame is seperating the soul of MIB from the evil of Smokey. That way Smokey is destroyed and MIB's soul "goes home" (as in goes to heaven, into the light, etc).

Just spit balling before the end.

What a piece of shit this thing was, eh?


No, seriously. Amazing episode that pretty much wiped most of any bad tastes from this season out of my mouth. THIS is the Lost I was praying would show up towards the end.

Am I the only one that would, at this point anyway, really dislike Jack being stripped of his new role? It would make the build up and this episode feel cheap to me. But I'm conflicted because it will seem weird if Locke doesn't factor into the endgame in some major way (and I don't mean Flocke). Then again, you could still view his arc's significance being a sacrifice that "the island demanded" in order to convert Jack.

Perhaps he is what ends up leaking through and killing MiB for good, which then allows Jack to be "free."

Hell, I don't know. All that I do know is my faith is pretty much restored and I'm amped for the finale. Happy times.

No, I'm with you, joey! Don't know why everyone's so quick to take the job away from Jack. I think it happened in this episode as oppose to the finale to clear Jacob off the board so now it's just Jack and the other Losties that are responsible for the endgame.

Oh, and I think Locke, as well as other Losties will still figure in the endgame as well.

And glad to hear it sound like you're back on board!

That was my first thought when he took the job. And, if I know Jack, and I think I do, he can do some crazy shit sometimes. Like maybe let MiB go or something...how crazy would that be?

On the other hand, maybe you get some freaky kind of awareness after drinking the koolaid. I dunno. Sunday is gonna be a blast!

ETA: How cool is it that two guys who were supposed to be temporary characters (Fox and Emerson) have made such an impact on this show? Coincidence or Fate? Heh.

I always figured that Ben was referring to an unwritten rule/understanding that, in their conflict, their family members are not targets. Come after me, but leave my family out of it.

I think you lacked the hostile split amongst the survivors because most of them had the same motivation--get off the damn island. Locke, Rose & Bernard were the only ones who were 100% in favor of staying on the island forever. Everyone else was in the camp of finding a way home. When an overwhelming majority of your group has the same goal in mind, I think it's very difficult to have a strong divide amongst the people.

I would like to add, when the Lost logo comes om screen, the play 70's porno music.

I would just like to say a big thank you to everyone here. Coupled with that fine episode, all of the "best of" moments you guys threw out have completely pumped me up for the finale. At the risk of sounding weird it's been seriously emotional looking back at this show. This board has been a great place to share it with like-minded, and may I say, very attractive people.

I don't think this has been brought up but who helped Desmond get out of the well? Looked like Jack, Sawyer, Hurley, Kate got sidetracked by Jacob finally giving them the 411, and it sure as hell wasn't Flocke/Ben.

I hope it was Miles

Not Penny's Rope!

(My guess is Sayid let him out)

I think Jack and Co. did it after the Jacob pow wow. It wouldn't be Sayid because he specifically told Jack to go rescue Des.

Also, so do we have confirmation that Locke rigged the C4 on the plane? Ben, Richard and Miles were still in Otherton, as was Widmore and Zoe.

Lapidus rescued Des.

I thought Widmore said he put the C4 on the plane?

Didn't Widmore say something in the latest episode to the effect of 'I've had that plane rigged with c4 from the moment we arrived' ?

Didn't Widmore in the episode say that they rigged the plane with C4 when they first got there?

Haha, wow @ the triple answer to Diva's question.

Rope was obviously made from his chest hair!

:facepalm:

I believe that Doc Jensen says that we will find out about the well-rescue in the next episode.

Rose and Bernard obviously helped Desmond out of the well via Vincent doing his Lassie routine.

"What's that Vincent? Desmond fell down a well?!"

Alls I know is I'll be pissed if Jeff Fahey went out like such a bitch.

Yes. And seconded.


I wonder how Hurley finding a cabin fit here. Since this mystic stuff about finding things seems more Jacob related.

And If you blend this question with all the stuff about Richard pointing Charles Ben or Locke as the leader of Others and the hierarchy at the temple Dodgen Lennon etc it makes even less sense.

What about the Panchen Lama test? Is that totally absurd in this context? Was Richard looking fora subject to go through the loophole?

The thing I liked about the Jack-Locke scene was... it seemed to write itself. Any one of us could have written that scene. It was the culmination of all we knew about those two characters. And it was very well played.

I bet "The End" will sum up the whole series very neatly. We'll love certain character beats (Locke, Ben, Sawyer), Giacchinos amazing score and single moments, we'll be smashed by new revelations and then terribly let down by unsatisfying answers and unanswered questions.

I think we can be pretty sure Jack won't be the candidate. He'll probably kill the smoke monster and save everyone, but in the end someone else will take his spot.

@Feral: What doesn't make sense about Jacob's followers establishing a heirarchy and wonky mystical tests to determine leadership?

They are broadcasting the finale over here at the same time as the US, although that is 5.00am!

I'll be getting an early night on Sunday then

DAN I LOVE YOU SO FUCKING MUCH!!!!!

IMHO inside the hierarchy the immortal dude should know more than the obsolete ones...

Not sure how being smashed in the face with a 75-pound steel pressure door equals "going out like a bitch", but I guess mileage may vary.

I think the writers have been going out of their way to show us that the hierarchy is irrelevant when it comes to what characters know / dont know about the island. We initially thought Ben was the top dog, turns out he didn't know squat. Ditto for people higher up the totem pole - Widmore, Eloise, Richard, etc etc. And last week we found out that Jacob and Smokey don't really have the big picture either.

Well, to be fair Jacob might have the big picture when he became the protector. He just holds his cards close to the vest. I wonder if now that Jack is like Jacob if the information he gives will be just as fuzzy or ambiguos or if he will be more specific with his fellow Losties.

I think the feeling comes from the perfunctory, blink and you miss it, manner of their death. The same thing goes for Richard (if Richard is dead [if Lepidus is dead]).

Yeah, I figured. But I think we all know never to write off a character on pretty much ANY tv show unless we see the bloody corpse.

Even then it's not enough on Lost... NAOMI.

Thanks all. I definitely didn't remember Widmore saying he planted the C4.

"Once again, I'm three steps ahead of you, Diva!"

I get the feeling that there was never really a "test" to become leader of the Others. Richard went to Locke because Locke told him to when they met back in 1954 and handed Richard the compass. This was Richard's way of seeing whether Locke would recognize the compass, but Locke didn't. I remember Richard being pissed off about it, too.

This just occurred to me while glimpsing that awesome picture of Alan Dale. If Widmore had the plane wired to blow the whole time, why not blow the thing up? Did he have other designs on it? He wanted to lure Smokey on board before flipping the switch? I guess that can't be it because Smokey WAS on board.

That was really odd.

I'm late for that momentary walk down memory lane, but I wanted to add one of my favorite cut-to-commercial scenes.

Taking a Pit Stop, the way it's shot and Ben's incredible reaction made this a keeper.

Maybe the plan was to remote detonate it over the ocean, far enough out that Smokey couldn't swim back? We know that he can't fly over the ocean, and I assume that the C4 wouldn't kill him. We also know he can obviously swim to some degree as Locke so maybe they were hoping to drown him.

Hell, I don't know. Maybe we'll find out, maybe we won't.

Or it could be that the people that were supposed to blow him up were brutally murdered by him before walking on to the plane.

woah, let's take things slow at first. I think I'll sky+ it and get up at about 7 and watch it before work, can skip the ad's as well.

I'm really happy that Sky aren't waiting until next Friday to show it, I would of had to hide in a cave next week otherwise.

This reminds me of that elaborate bamboo staircase leading up to the plane that someone (I like to think it was these guys) had constructed. And it makes me chuckle, thinking that Widmore's crew remembered to pack the portable sonic fences and Desmond, but in their haste, forgot a ladder.

The bamboo staircase was indeed goofy. Gilligan goofy.

In Widmore's defense, I ALWAYS forget at least one thing when I pack.

So guesses on how MiB's desire to "destroy the island" is going to compute with the sunken island from the premiere?

I guess it could still be Jesse's "second snake" theory in a way, but how is that reconciled with the time difference (2007 vs. 2004)? I guess you could just wave the jedi-hand and say "the island has wonky time properties, so when it sunk it spit them into 2004 pre-crash?"

They didn't seem to be laying in wait to detonate it, though. More just standing around guarding Gilligan's gangplank. Seems like you'd hide if you were going to blow it up, rather than stand in front of it.

You mean rather than stand in front of it and... oh, SHOOT the fucking asshole you might be trying to blow up?

If they wanted to blow up Locke, seems like he would've given clear instructions to let the dude on the plane.