Lost: Season 6 Discussion Thread - Page 122

I'm wondering if we're ever going to find out what caused the alternate universe. I'm positive they'll show us where its leading - it seems like its building to some sort of convergence between the two universes in the final hours, but given that, we can't chalk it up as second snake theory, can we? And if jughead's detonation was the cause of the alt-verse, why would everyones lives pre-815 be so drastically different?

I'm wondering where Jack's neck wound fits in to all of this. Foreshadowing into a potential on-island demise? A hint about the origin of the alternate universe?

I think it will be separation. I think Smokey in its pure form will be destroyed, but Jacob's brother will get to leave the Island. All the other souls that cannot move on (or whatever Ghost Michael calls them) will get to leave too.

On another note it's been great watching Matthew Fox, Jorge Garcia etc do the rounds on all the talk shows this week. Whenever anyone asks them about the finale it's like they shut down completely, I love it. The secrecy makes it fun.

I loved when Letterman did this little bit called "How They Think Lost Will End". The screen cuts to Matthew Fox who says "Honestly, I don't care. I stopped watching after Season 3".

Fallon: "Kate or Juliet?"

Fox: "Both, at the same time."

Right after the fifth season I saw an interview with the writers where they emphasized the ripple effect from the "rock in the water" analogy. They were keen to point out that the ripples don't all move in one direction and that the effect of the Jughead incident would impact the past prior to that moment as well as the future moving on from that point. Or something like that.

Some questions will be answered....on DVD?:http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/05/20/lost-dvd-extras/

Came back a little while ago from the NYTimes Lost: Live Interview that was projected in a movie theater. It was pretty fun, and humorous. Michael Emerson and Jorge Garcia showed up, and they even showed a clip for sunday's finale. Both my Dad and I ended up discussing a lot about Lost on the car ride back.

Loved that Damon Lindelof credited Twin Peaks as an influence as he would watch the show with his Dad. When I was a 6 back in 1990 as well as when I was 7 in 1991, I watched Twin Peaks with my Dad. Just like I watch Lost with him now. That was heartwarming.

Where does nostalgia end/begin Rene?

Not giving you shit, but serious question.

That seems like an awfully broad topic for a LOST thread.

It was just cool seeing Twin Peaks getting credit. Ever since I began watching Lost, I always thought of it being pretty close in spirit to Twin Peaks. The interview today validated it. The added factor of Damon Liindelof saying he watched the show with his Dad was the nostalgia factor, since I did the same thing with my Dad back then. That's what makes it special for me.

I meant personally. Everyone has their point.

I do tend to wax nostalgic a lot. Just connecting things to my past is something I like to do. A lot of the stuff I watch or own has a story. I take out a dvd, and I remember how I got it. I remember dates a lot. I'm known for knowing the exact date when something that others would consider trivial occurred in my life.

I also was at the Times Talks show. It was enjoyable, and the finale scene really got me hyped.

One thing that occurred to me, sort of related to a fan's question about if Ms. Hawking knew something about the parallel universes:

I theorize that Daniel's birth itself was enough for her to "wake up" if you will, to a realization of her other life in the parallel timeline. If she's aware of having to kill her son and Desmond and all of that, it would make plenty of sense that she would discourage Desmond from seeing Penny and waking up as well. She doesn't want to mess it up. This explains her eerie knowledge, IMO.

Forgive if this was mentioned earlier, but doesn't Locke telling Ben that he wants to destroy the island not long after promising he's going to leave it for him to rule over kind of mess up his plan to get Ben to kill for him?

I thought about the same damn thing. Perhaps Locke will switch gears and promise to bring Ben's daughter back to life.

Can't wait to read it!

Pretty great article on Gawker about the end and people's reactions.

Great stuff as always, Jesse.

I'm going to miss these columns almost as much as the show. Bring on the book!

I've mentioned this before, but I really loved this little moment and I'm glad you went into it a bit. I think its Jacob's nonchalant delivery that really sells me on this. And I think its really interesting that Jacob does seem to genuinely respect Kate choosing to be a mother, given that, in a show where just about every character has some sort of daddy issue, the two figures central to the mythology of the island had some seriously profound mommy issues.

This might seem like an odd comparison but the scene sort of reminded me of the season 3 finale of Mad Men. After two very emotional and serious episodes the finale had this fun, breezy and electric quality to it, as Don and associates planned on getting themselves fired, starting a new company, and robbing Sterling/Cooper of some of it's employees and clients (and stationary). The episode had these odd music beats which played up the caper like feel. Seeing Desmond and Hurley confident and on top of things, and the little musical flourish at the end gave the scene the same sense of fun. They could have played it any number of ways, but I'm glad the went lighthearted instead of dramatic for that scene.

I'm curious Jesse, maybe you wrote it in one of your columns and I missed it but what is your theory for the Island's fertility problems?

Wonderful stuff again Jesse. Can I share a story with you? Myself and my then girlfriend (now wife) went to see Sin City and the very first Lost promo played. Laura (being oddly obsessed with plane crashes) DEMANDED we watch it. I was entirely unimpressed. A two hour Pilot and six years later and here I am damn near weeping with anticipation for the finale. I'll miss your recaps dude.

This has probably been covered already, but the latest episode did have Widmore saying something about his outrigger. I simply assumed that it was this outrigger that shot at Sawyer and that was that.

Right as Jack said that last line, I said the same thing out loud because I wanted Sawyer to feel better. Hahaha. Then I said, "That's RIGHT!" I had a friend who was watching it with me at the time. I'm not weird!

Great read, Jesse.

Nice, and fits so well with the idea of Jacob trying to show his brother that he's wrong about people always being total assholes. I wonder if we'll get to see MIB concede that point in the finale.



Never gets old. Desmond's groceries and/or facepunches, I'll miss you most of all!


That would be so random, yet so awesome (easily the most beautiful woman ever to appear on this show)

Don't mean to burst any bubbles, but judging from interviews, a few of the main actors seem to be genuinely in the dark about the final scenes. So I dunno...


Possibly a great catch. I like the "freeing of the light" theory a lot.

PS. No more Lost, no more columns about it from you. A twist of the knife.

Thanks Jesse. You've done such a great job with these recaps & I will genuinely miss them. They are profound, thought-provoking, helpful, and funny. Can't wait to read your recap of "The End" next week (no matter how that episode turns out, I'm sure you'll do it justice).

See you all (late) Sunday night! Happy Last LOST Day!

That was alot of fun. Thanks!

It's amazing how much less compelling the characters get the farther in the back they are. Fucking Zoe. Why even have that character? Ugh.

Somebody above asked about Locke telling Ben he could have the island and then telling Ben he was going to destroy the island. That can be best explained by bad writing.

Ten Most Useless LOST Characters

10) Zoe
9) Dogen
8) Minkowski
7) Beatrice
6) Horace Goodspeed
5) Karl
4) Bram
3) Abaddon
2) Lennon
1) Ethan Rom

I knew you'd get some mileage out that, Devin.

Ethan? Really? Curious as to your reasoning for that. Not that I'm a huge Ethan defender, but he was pretty much the only face of The Others in the first season.

All other choices I agree with, though I still think its a shame Abaddon didn't turn out to be a bigger deal. And if Richard did indeed die last episode, I'd say he's pretty much the number one useless character.

Would've thrown Ilana in there too.

Ethan is the most useless LOST character because his whole storyline - the sickness and the babies not being able to be born - has apparently been ignored and tossed away.

And his name, an anagram for Other Man, is the beginning of the useless games that the show would play with us that went nowhere.

I don't agree with Ethan either. Hurley's "Someone was not on the manifest" is enough to keep him off. Beside that he kidnapped Claire and killed Charlie (but not really). Illana or Nadia might get my vote.

Not sure I agree with Horace either.

Ethan as "character that turned out not to be part of Flight 815 and introduced us to The Others" is fine. Ethan as "walking easter egg, except also winter egg and autumn egg and summer egg, and fullblown chicken, then kfc bucket, then back to egg" is totally worthless. All the fanfictiony quality of this season can be traced back to Ethan's oh-so-strained appearances throughout the years and the contortions necessary for them to happen.

That doesn't make him useless just because his story eventually was tossed away. His role was essential in establishing the Others early on. He made too big an impact on the show in its early days to include him on such a list. His appearance in "Raised By Another" is enough to justify his existence.

I think Captain Gault is much more deserving. Besides having one exposition filled scene with Sayid and Desmond, he was quickly killed off. And the picture that was initially painted of him didn't jive with how he was presented. Remember when he was supposed to have a bad temper and how he was not to be trusted?

Other useless characters include Regina and Isabel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJVSR...eature=channel

"Oh, let's just kill mom -- shnick!"

Devin, how could you forget Arzt?? At least Ethan started a plot thread back in the day. Arzt was an extended visual gag from the first moment we laid eyes on him, and he's been an annoying easter egg ever since.

I'm still avoiding this thread like the plague (or an Infection anyway), but I wanted to take my own last shot at some predictions. I also felt guilty about responding to Devin's column with more thought than he took to write it, while not responding/praising Mr Morse's excellent work.

The only time Ben had an opportunity to kill Widmore was when his goal was not to kill him. At that point he wanted Widmore to suffer, to lose his daughter (and his followers) and be helpless to stop it from happening.

Widmore also didn't seem to think anything was stopping Ben from killing him. And when they met for a second time, there really was nothing stopping him.

I think this is one of many cases where the show has been intentionally vague to serve a purpose beyond being clever/coy. Viewers have become invested with deciphering the "mythology" of the Island, without much consideration to the root word: "myth". We are given just enough informational rope to intellectually hang ourselves. By limiting our perspective on important data and moments, the writers have allowed/forced us to fill in the blanks, often to completely erroneous/hilarious/crazy ends. In this way, we are experiencing the Island in the same way the characters themselves are: from a very constrained and subjective perspective. We have witnessed the dangers of substituting guesses for knowledge (faith for fact), as Locke, Ben and others were horribly misled by their own half-baked presumptions and deductions. I'm sure it's maddening to some viewers and proof of bad writing to others, but to me it has been one of the central themes of the show since its beginning, and I find it incredibly thought provoking.

Those two explanations aren't contradictory, depending on your perspective.

I totally agree. This was the most surprising elements of the sideways world so far, but after the initial head-shaking from the bizarre nature of it, it seemed perfect. Plus the tears welling up in Ben's eyes made it impossible not to feel like they deserved a happy ending as much or more than any characters in the show. As long as they don't remember their Island lives... that could be an uncomfortable family dinner...

This is going to be Ben's last and greatest con of John Locke.

Ben handed Miles a walkie-talkie before he left. At some point (if he hasn't already), Ben will flip that walkie-talkie on, and Smokey's plans will be broadcast for all the Island to hear.

The lone bit of really important information I took from that mostly wasted Smokey/Jacob origin story was: how to kill a Smoke Monster. They can't see it coming. And there's only one character that Smokey trusts (or thinks he dominates) enough to turn his back on: Ben. Ben is going to end up tossing both the white and the black stone into the ocean.

With that insightful (or painfully obvious) note, I'll head back into seclusion until Monday morning. I wish you all an entertaining Sunday night. May fans get a thrilling and emotional piece of closure. May haters get fuel to stoke their fires. May Devin get a revelation or two worthy of a written tantrum. May Morse/Custer get many meaty topics for pontification. Here's hoping everyone gets what need from the finale, if not what they want.

You won't be able to keep me away from that live blog. What an excellent feature.

I'd be joining in the live blog, except I'll be sitting in a darkened theatre at the Drafthouse, watching LOST on the big screen. BOOYA.

Yes, I'm still gloating. Wouldn't you?

Nicki and Paulo need to be on there somewhere.

Neat idea. I can't join it since it will be aired later here. I bumped the Lost pool if you want to throw some ideas about the finale.
BTW I want to salute Jesse for the awesome job he has done.

Someone has a bizzare definition of the word "easter egg".

Great recap, as always, Jess.

As far as Ben being able to kill Widmore when before supposedly it was against the rules, maybe because what Widmore was telling MIB was a way to destroy the island, Ben shooting Widmore was an attempt to protect the island. Perhaps protecting the island overrules any rules.

OK, last minute theories before the final. Expanding a bit on my redemption theory, maybe Jack & the Losties (I think their input in the endgame isn't over yet, even if Jack took up the mantle) need to get MIB to let go of his hate. Maybe this hate feeds/fuels the smoke monster. Letting go of the hate kills off the smoke monster and allows MIB's soul to "go home" (heaven, the light, etc).

Or look it another way, maybe the light isn't suppose to be hidden away on the island? Maybe it is suppose to be released so the light (good) can shine all over the world.

Of course I'm probably wrong. Can't wait!

If you look past the mysteries, philosophical debates, and monsters, this is the heart of the show. I'll always be pissed that I didn't get certain Answers, but I love that this disparate group of people have become family and would literally die for each other.

As for Jacob's candidate selection criteria, it makes sense yet doesn't. There are millions of lonely people and lost souls out there. Why are these people any more or less lost than anyone else. And the mother thing while instantly gratifying doesn't hold up in hindsight. Sun and Jin were parents but they weren't crossed off the list.

Interesting thoughts on Lost and Fringe below...

Continue http://www.avclub.com/articles/over-there-part-2,41392/

I guess its kinda silly to bring this up now that we have a relatively solid idea as to what's required of Jacob's replacement, but maybe Ji Yeon is the Kwon candidate. Actually, its really silly. But still.