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Good Songs in Otherwise Bad/Mediocre Musicals

post #1 of 104
2/6/10 at 6:31pm
Thread Starter 
I'm a big musical buff, and one of the most frustrating things in the world for me is when I find one, two or even three good-to-great songs in an otherwise bad/mediocre musical. Has this ever happened to anyone else here, and if so, what songs/musicals qualify. Some of mine:

Wicked-"Defying Gravity", "One Short Day", and "No Good Deed"-Wicked is one of those musicals that's both average and immensely popular, but these three songs really work for me, if only because Idina Menzel and Kristen Chenoweth (in "Day" and part of "Gravity") belt the hell out of them.

Aida-"My Strongest Suit"-The Lion King (the film, not the play) is one of my favorite musicals, Disney or otherwise, of all time, which makes this reunion of Elton John and Tim Rice a particular disappointment. It's just not very good, but "My Strongest Suit" is pretty fun and bubbly.

Rent-"La Vie Boheme", "Rent" and "Seasons of Love"-Rent didn't work for me either on stage or on film, but these songs are all pretty solid.

Gentlemen, the floor is open.
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post #2 of 104
2/6/10 at 6:32pm
"Memory" from Cats
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post #3 of 104
2/6/10 at 6:47pm
"Be Italian" from Nine.

I wasn't that impressed with the movie (unfamiliar with the stage version) but this one proved that Fergie could actually sing.
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post #4 of 104
2/6/10 at 6:52pm
There were two songs in Repo that I really liked, but I'm not sure what the titles were. One was the Graverobber describing things to the heroine, and I think the other one was called 'Chase the Morning'? The rest of the thing is kind of crap, but those two songs are very good.
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post #5 of 104
2/6/10 at 7:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe Powers View Post
There were two songs in Repo that I really liked, but I'm not sure what the titles were. One was the Graverobber describing things to the heroine, and I think the other one was called 'Chase the Morning'? The rest of the thing is kind of crap, but those two songs are very good.
That's probably ZYDRATE ANATOMY one of the only times that film has any semblance of life.

It actually always reminded me of a Nightmare Before Christmas sort of song, but I think it's just due to the call/response nature of the song and the singers voice sounding vaguely like Jack Skellington.
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post #6 of 104
2/6/10 at 8:00pm
Yep, that's the one.
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post #7 of 104
2/6/10 at 8:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe Powers View Post
There were two songs in Repo that I really liked, but I'm not sure what the titles were. One was the Graverobber describing things to the heroine, and I think the other one was called 'Chase the Morning'? The rest of the thing is kind of crap, but those two songs are very good.
From that movie, it's Legal Assassin or nothing.

I've soured some on Moulin Rouge over the years, but I admit to harboring an unhealthy love for the Roxanne Tango.
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post #8 of 104
2/6/10 at 8:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Spider View Post
Rent-"La Vie Boheme", "Rent" and "Seasons of Love"-Rent didn't work for me either on stage or on film, but these songs are all pretty solid.
This would have been my contribution, so I'll second it. Outside of these songs, Rent really is the epitome of everything bad about musicals from the 1990s.
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post #9 of 104
2/6/10 at 8:24pm
Depending on who sings it, "This Is the Moment" from Jekyll and Hyde can be pretty stirring.
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post #10 of 104
2/6/10 at 8:31pm
I was just going to post that one Richard. I'm a Wildhorn apologist but I am hard pressed to remember any of the songs from that musical. Hmm. I know I have the soundtrack somewhere. I'll have to give it a spin this weekend so see if there is anything else decent.
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post #11 of 104
2/6/10 at 8:43pm
If we're including Disney films, I'll go with "I'll Make a Man Out of You" from Mulan. Not only is it the only song in the entire soundtrack that approaches being good or memorable, but it also has to be the whitest, gayest, most showtuney song ever put into the mouths of Chinese militants.
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post #12 of 104
2/6/10 at 8:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Clark View Post
From that movie, it's Legal Assassin or nothing.
Truth. I'd kill to see Anthony Head in a real musical.

For me, the title song from Phantom is about the only tolerable song from the whole thing. Granted, I only saw the movie, so maybe I'd think differently on the stage.
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post #13 of 104
2/6/10 at 8:50pm
"Run Tell That" from Shankman's HAIRPSRAY. Elijah Kelly killed in that movie.

And almost all of the songs in CHICAGO were fantastic, but Marshall just couldn't make them gel into anything memorable.
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post #14 of 104
2/6/10 at 8:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JGButler View Post
And almost all of the songs in CHICAGO were fantastic, but Marshall just couldn't make them gel into anything memorable.
I think that has to do with the fact that he turned 90% of the story into the jailhouse daydreams of a narcissistic sociopath, really.
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post #15 of 104
2/6/10 at 10:10pm
Thread Starter 
Pocahontas-"Mine, Mine, Mine"-Like the rest of the film, the lyrics are hilariously unsubtle, but it's one of the only times the film actually lets itself have fun both musically and animation-wise. Plus, you can't go wrong with David Ogden Stiers belting out a song with all his might. On top of all that, it makes deforestation look like a total (ahem) blast.

I just realized something: Pocahontas has the exact opposite problem of Disney's Hunchback. The drama is so completely inert in Pocahontas that we welcome any sense of fun or even the stale comic relief, whereas in Hunchback the drama is so compelling that the comic relief seems like it's from a completely different film.
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post #16 of 104
2/6/10 at 10:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuchulain View Post
If we're including Disney films, I'll go with "I'll Make a Man Out of You" from Mulan. Not only is it the only song in the entire soundtrack that approaches being good or memorable, but it also has to be the whitest, gayest, most showtuney song ever put into the mouths of Chinese militants.
Continuing with Disney, "Hellfire" from The Hunchback of Notre Dame really stands out, especially when it's from the same movie as those god-awful gargoyles.
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post #17 of 104
2/6/10 at 10:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicholas View Post
Continuing with Disney, "Hellfire" from The Hunchback of Notre Dame really stands out, especially when it's from the same movie as those god-awful gargoyles.
Eh, I'd argue that, musically, Hunchback is in the running for the strongest entry in the entire Disney Animation filmography. It is, in no way, a bad or mediocre musical.

ETA: Also, you guys are missing the darker edge of the gargoyles. They're supposed to be aspects of Quasimodo's personality that he is projecting onto the statuary. They're basically exploring how utterly insane isolation has made the protagonist in the most kid-friendly way possible. The comic relief components of the film are totally in the same film as everything else.
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post #18 of 104
2/6/10 at 10:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratty View Post
For me, the title song from Phantom is about the only tolerable song from the whole thing. Granted, I only saw the movie, so maybe I'd think differently on the stage.
They fare much better on the cast albums.
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post #19 of 104
2/6/10 at 10:30pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuchulain View Post
Eh, I'd argue that, musically, Hunchback is in the running for the strongest entry in the entire Disney Animation filmography. It is, in no way, a bad or mediocre musical.

ETA: Also, you guys are missing the darker edge of the gargoyles. They're supposed to be aspects of Quasimodo's personality that he is projecting onto the statuary. They're basically exploring how utterly insane isolation has made the protagonist in the most kid-friendly way possible. The comic relief components of the film are totally in the same film as everything else.
"A Guy Like You" is pretty horrid, but otherwise I'd agree. And I get the whole subtext thing with the gargoyles, but they're kind of annoying and not all that funny.
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post #20 of 104
2/6/10 at 10:35pm
Just finished watching Anastasia, and I loved "Once upon a December."
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post #21 of 104
2/6/10 at 10:48pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anakin's Dad View Post
Just finished watching Anastasia, and I loved "Once upon a December."
I dunno, Anastasia is pretty solid in terms of music (my personal favorite is "Rumor in St. Petersburg) all the way through, methinks.
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post #22 of 104
2/6/10 at 10:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicholas View Post
Continuing with Disney, "Hellfire" from The Hunchback of Notre Dame really stands out, especially when it's from the same movie as those god-awful gargoyles.
I came in here to post just that. Frollo is far from the best Disney villain, but he's definitely the rapiest.
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post #23 of 104
2/6/10 at 11:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuchulain View Post
Eh, I'd argue that, musically, Hunchback is in the running for the strongest entry in the entire Disney Animation filmography. It is, in no way, a bad or mediocre musical.

ETA: Also, you guys are missing the darker edge of the gargoyles. They're supposed to be aspects of Quasimodo's personality that he is projecting onto the statuary. They're basically exploring how utterly insane isolation has made the protagonist in the most kid-friendly way possible. The comic relief components of the film are totally in the same film as everything else.
I can't agree. It's a pretty mediocre musical, song-wise and otherwise. And everything possibly positive about the gargoyles is negated by how bad they tonally stick out.
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post #24 of 104
2/6/10 at 11:17pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicholas View Post
I can't agree. It's a pretty mediocre musical, song-wise and otherwise.
....I cannot possibly conceive why you think songs like "Out There", "Hellfire" and "The Bells of Notre Dame" are mediocre. Even the more "fun" songs like "Topsy Turvy" and "The Court of Miracles" are a blast to listen to, and "God Help The Outcasts" has a certain haunting beauty to it. Explain thyself.
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post #25 of 104
2/6/10 at 11:42pm
Well, I don't think "Hellfire" is mediocre. That's why I mentioned it here. "The Bells of Notre Dame"is right behind it but can't compare to how dramatic, dark and catchy "Hellfire" is.
I have little love for the rest. To me it's not so much bad, as just mediocre.
To me, the "fun" songs are anything but (especially "A Guy Like You") and typify the state of Disney animated films at the time. I can't remember them even after listening to them again on Youtube. Bland.
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post #26 of 104
2/6/10 at 11:47pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicholas View Post
Well, I don't think "Hellfire" is mediocre. That's why I mentioned it here. "The Bells of Notre Dame"is right behind it but can't compare to how dramatic, dark and catchy "Hellfire" is.
I have little love for the rest. To me it's not so much bad, as just mediocre.
To me, the "fun" songs are anything but (especially "A Guy Like You") and typify the state of Disney animated films at the time. I can't remember them even after listening to them again on Youtube. Bland.
Fair enough. OK, time for another example: "Sweet Transvestite". Don't kill me, but I'm just not a big fan of Rocky Horror musically (although "Time Warp" is pretty catchy). But "Sweet Transvestite" plain kicks ass, mostly thanks to Tim Curry's livewire performance.
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post #27 of 104
2/7/10 at 12:36am
"He Needs Me", from Popeye. All thanks to Paul Thomas Anderson for pointing that one out, some 20 years later.
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post #28 of 104
2/7/10 at 12:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Spider View Post
Fair enough. OK, time for another example: "Sweet Transvestite". Don't kill me, but I'm just not a big fan of Rocky Horror musically (although "Time Warp" is pretty catchy). But "Sweet Transvestite" plain kicks ass, mostly thanks to Tim Curry's livewire performance.
No way, the show is great. Science Fiction/Double Feature, Over at The Frankenstein Place, and Superheroes are all great songs. Granted, I've never see a non-Curry helmed version, so a lot of the movie/show's charm might fade with a weaker cast, but I wouldn't call it mediocre or anywhere near bad. And that's not even saying it's good in a bad way, or vice versa, I happen to think the music in it is great.

The "sequel", Shock Treatment, is a better example. Utterly bizarre movie with an awesome out of nowhere song, "Lullabye".
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post #29 of 104
2/7/10 at 1:04am
Anyone seen the stage version of Disney's "Hunchback"? Never made it to New York (I think it may only have played in Germany), but it would be interesting to know if/how the songs were changed/added.
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post #30 of 104
2/7/10 at 1:05am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Miller View Post
No way, the show is great. Science Fiction/Double Feature, Over at The Frankenstein Place, and Superheroes are all great songs. Granted, I've never see a non-Curry helmed version, so a lot of the movie/show's charm might fade with a weaker cast, but I wouldn't call it mediocre or anywhere near bad. And that's not even saying it's good in a bad way, or vice versa, I happen to think the music in it is great.

The "sequel", Shock Treatment, is a better example. Utterly bizarre movie with an awesome out of nowhere song, "Lullabye".
Eh, those songs are all right, but I just don't feel that kind of gleeful campiness like I feel when I listen to "Transvestite" or "Time Warp".
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post #31 of 104
2/7/10 at 1:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratty View Post
Truth. I'd kill to see Anthony Head in a real musical.
A few years back, saw him in "Pirates of Penzance" in London, and he was pretty bad (in a godawful production, so it was probably not all his fault). It was alternating with "Peter Pan," but "Pirates" was so bad, we decided not to chance it.
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post #32 of 104
2/7/10 at 1:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chavez View Post
"Memory" from Cats
Not a huge fan of the show, but I've produced it onstage, and "Memory" would really be at the top of the list of songs I never, ever want to hear again.

Some of the character songs in "Cats" are a lot more entertaining, IMHO.
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post #33 of 104
2/7/10 at 1:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeb View Post
Anyone seen the stage version of Disney's "Hunchback"? Never made it to New York (I think it may only have played in Germany), but it would be interesting to know if/how the songs were changed/added.
There's numerous clips of it on YouTube, the "Sanctuary" number looks pretty epic on-stage. Search for "Der Glockner von Notre Dame".
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post #34 of 104
2/7/10 at 1:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeb View Post
Anyone seen the stage version of Disney's "Hunchback"? Never made it to New York (I think it may only have played in Germany), but it would be interesting to know if/how the songs were changed/added.
I saw the stage version at Disney World when Mulan's production was wrapping up at the animation studio there. It's more like Beauty and the Beast and less like The Lion King, i.e it's basically a reenactment of the film on the stage. Frollo was almost knocked off of the stage "horse" by a bad curtain cue.

I read that the German version, however, switches out the film's ending for the novel's.
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post #35 of 104
2/7/10 at 5:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Clark View Post
From that movie, it's Legal Assassin or nothing.
Head sang it well, but I felt it was such an utterly lifeless song otherwise. It wasn't the worst or anything, and Head killed all the other songs he sang too, but musically and narratively speaking I didn't think they had anything to offer. 'Zydrate Anatomy' and 'Chase the Morning' both really spring out of the rest of the film for different reasons, actually help move the plot, and stand alone pretty well too.
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post #36 of 104
2/7/10 at 5:45am
Getting back to stage, A Chorus Line is pretty intolerable except for its awesome ode to tit jobs, "Dance 10, Looks 3".
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post #37 of 104
2/7/10 at 11:37am
Thread Starter 
Grease -Grease really isn't that great as a musical or as a story, but "Tell Me More", "Greased Lightning" and "We Go Together" are all catchy fun (from the movie, "You're The One That I Want" could also qualify).

Hairspray-I would nominate "You Can't Stop The Beat", which is infectiously catchy.

Oklahoma-The title song.
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post #38 of 104
2/7/10 at 12:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicholas View Post
Continuing with Disney, "Hellfire" from The Hunchback of Notre Dame really stands out, especially when it's from the same movie as those god-awful gargoyles.
I haven't seen that movie since it came out in '96 when I was thirteen but I just clicked that link and holy shit, that's an awesome song.
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post #39 of 104
2/7/10 at 12:54pm
It really looks like it's part of a different film. That part where Frollo is standing in the flames is just amazing.
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post #40 of 104
2/7/10 at 2:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Spider View Post

Oklahoma-The title song.
Whoa! Are you dismissing Surrey With The Fringe On Top? Because if you are, I'm going to have to ask you to step outside and slap fight!
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post #41 of 104
2/7/10 at 3:20pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratty View Post
Whoa! Are you dismissing Surrey With The Fringe On Top? Because if you are, I'm going to have to ask you to step outside and slap fight!
Take it easy, it's been a while since I've seen it, but the only song that struck me as memorable was the title number. I meant no true disrespect, sir.
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post #42 of 104
2/7/10 at 4:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Spider View Post
Take it easy, it's been a while since I've seen it, but the only song that struck me as memorable was the title number. I meant no true disrespect, sir.
"People Will Say We're In Love", "Oh What a Beautiful Morning" and "I Caint Say No" are memorable musical numbers by most folks estimation.
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post #43 of 104
2/7/10 at 4:28pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Shade View Post
"People Will Say We're In Love", "Oh What a Beautiful Morning" and "I Caint Say No" are memorable musical numbers by most folks estimation.
*shrugs* Like I said, it's been a while, although yeah, you're right about "Morning". Forgot about that one.
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post #44 of 104
2/7/10 at 4:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Spider View Post
Take it easy, it's been a while since I've seen it, but the only song that struck me as memorable was the title number. I meant no true disrespect, sir.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VylLnYMGULI

You're welcome.
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post #45 of 104
2/7/10 at 4:58pm
I'm still trying to fathom how Oklahoma! could be considered a mediocre, or even minor, musical.
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post #46 of 104
2/7/10 at 5:14pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerhead View Post
I'm still trying to fathom how Oklahoma! could be considered a mediocre, or even minor, musical.
As I said, it's been a while, so I'll probably end up giving it another chance since, as the outrage would seem to indicate, it's better than I thought it was.
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post #47 of 104
2/7/10 at 5:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Miller View Post
No way, the show is great. Science Fiction/Double Feature, Over at The Frankenstein Place, and Superheroes are all great songs. Granted, I've never see a non-Curry helmed version, so a lot of the movie/show's charm might fade with a weaker cast, but I wouldn't call it mediocre or anywhere near bad. And that's not even saying it's good in a bad way, or vice versa, I happen to think the music in it is great.
I'd agree - I think it might be fair to call RHPS as "bad" movie but the songs are strong.
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post #48 of 104
2/7/10 at 5:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Spider View Post
As I said, it's been a while, so I'll probably end up giving it another chance since, as the outrage would seem to indicate, it's better than I thought it was.
In Chris' defense, Oklahoma's story is kind of long and meandering. All that weird stalker shit with Jud is really off-putting. But a lot of the songs are pretty great.
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post #49 of 104
2/7/10 at 5:57pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratty View Post
In Chris' defense, Oklahoma's story is kind of long and meandering. All that weird stalker shit with Jud is really off-putting. But a lot of the songs are pretty great.
Boredom was definitely a feeling I remember: "Man, how long is this thing?" Still, I'll give it another try for the music, so thanks for the recommendation.

Incidentally, any Sound of Music fans here? I kind of like it myself, although it's definitely too damn long, and that "Lonely Goatherd" scene comes out of nowhere. But Julie Andrews is fucking luminous, and any scene where she gets to sing is classic (I also like "How Do You Solve A Problem Like Maria?"). It's far from a "bad" musical, but I was interested if it had any fans here.
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post #50 of 104
2/7/10 at 6:04pm
Sound of Music just isn't my cup of tea. It does go on too long -- the story's over when Maria comes back, and yet there's, what, another hour? I get the need to resolve the Anschluss storyline, but it takes FOREVER, and you've already seen all the good stuff by that point. Same with My Fair Lady -- after the race scene, that film goes into a time warp where the rest of it feels like it's as long as the movie itself.
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