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Are we this starved for good horror?

post #1 of 53
1/22/03 at 1:53pm
Thread Starter 
Let me preface my following thoughts with a few tidbits of information. I've been a horror fan all my known life. I even though I may not have seen them all, I feel like I've seen enough (maybe not as many as I should in the past few years but marriage and kids will do that to a man) to hold a decent discussion about the genre in general. With that in mind, I pose the following topic for debate:

I've sat back and read post upon post here in the creature corner discussing the virtues of current horror films and often, based on Chewer posts and reviews, go out and rent said films or see them in the theaters. Some OK, some not so OK, and some not even worth mentioning. The point is, I haven't seen one single horror movie in God knows how long that in its entirety or even in snippets was actually really any good at all (Obvious opinionated discussion could be had at the last statement as cases could be made for some). And sadly, I'm seeing it get worse. My point being, are we so starved for good horror and horror movies in general that we praise just about any movie that fits the bill? I mean come on. I read posts saying that Ginger Snaps is a "good" movie. Yeah, it's good if you like bad acting, cut rate FX, and Canadians. And Jeepers Creepers? Just who are the Ad Wizards who came up with this one? Attic Expeditions...no comment. Really, I hate to even discuss the above because are they really worthy of discussion? Yet discuss we must. Anway, I'm not interested in getting into a flame war because you like any of the above and I don't. I'm just mainly wanting to pick your brain about your thoughts about the past, present and more importantly, the future of the horror genre as we know it.

I have to say that this fit of emotion has perhaps prematurely been brought on by last night's viewing of Feardotcom.
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post #2 of 53
1/22/03 at 1:59pm
Well, before a disucssion can really take place I think it's important to know what you consider good horror?
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post #3 of 53
1/22/03 at 2:09pm
Thread Starter 
Subjective opinion of course but movies like The Exorcist, The Shining (call it what you will), Poltergeist, Amityville(1 or 2-take your pick), Blair Witch Project-by virtue of its originality, to name a few. In a cornier vein, ED 1 & 2, Re-Animator, From Beyond, etc.

Perhaps I am being too hard but my point being is that finding good film not in the horror arena is becoming increasingly difficult. Would you or would you not agree?
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post #4 of 53
1/22/03 at 2:12pm
Well I have to wonder. If all those films you mentioned aren't your cup of tea. Then what was the last horror film you saw that you ACTUALLY enjoyed? I have to wonder..

And is there something wrong with Canadians? Being a card carrying flag waving canuck I took a wee bit of offense..
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post #5 of 53
1/22/03 at 2:18pm
Thread Starter 
Nut Punches?

This from the people who brought us You Can't do That on Television.

Seriously, the thing played like RL Stein's Goosebumps.
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post #6 of 53
1/22/03 at 2:31pm
Thread Starter 
Let me clarify Sadako-

Because I enjoy a film does not make it good. Like a dog, I too sometimes enjoy crap.

My point in all of this is to only raise the question that there hasn't been a horror movie released in the last ten years that holds a candle to what we got in the past. It just seems to have gotten watered down is all. I'm anxious for something good, aren't you?

With that said, I enjoyed The Ring and for the most part,I also enjoyed Dog Soldiers.
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post #7 of 53
1/22/03 at 2:34pm
A: Ginger Snaps is a great movie, with a nicely fresh outlook on lycanthropes

B: It has cut-rate FX because its budget isn't exactly in the 100m.

C: Katherine Isabelle, the chick who played Bridget, and Mimi Rogers were, for me, fantastic.
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post #8 of 53
1/22/03 at 2:36pm
Thread Starter 
Goblin-
I meant no disrespect. Only pointing out that movies made in Canada with all Canadian casts stick out like a sore thumb. Perhaps for that reason alone, I don't know. Anyway, I could never dis a country that produced the likes of Rick Moranis and Harry Dean Anderson.
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post #9 of 53
1/22/03 at 2:40pm
Thread Starter 
For future reference, I only bring up those particular movies as examples of what we are seeing nowadays. If you enjoyed them, fine. No harm no foul. I personally didn't. But labeling them "good" as in it was a good piece of filmmaking. No, I just don't see that. ANd Ginger Snaps being a new take on Lycanthropes is like saying Vampire in Harlem is a new take on Vampires.
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post #10 of 53
1/22/03 at 2:42pm
Quote:
Ugly Goblin Boy, Slave #1273:
The reality of performing an actual act of Nut Punching lies somewhere between nil and no. Unless you are sitting next to me in class right now, I have neither the drive nor ambition. Read it more as a metaphor for my extreme disagreement with your statements towards my countrymen and their art.
You're in class posting? Damn, school has changed.
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post #11 of 53
1/22/03 at 2:50pm
Quote:
sweaterbydarwin:
ANd Ginger Snaps being a new take on Lycanthropes is like saying Vampire in Harlem is a new take on Vampires.
Maybe you misunderstood me. The way the 'curse' of the wolf and the 'curse' of the period are interwined is wonderfully done, humourously and dramatically. And it hasn't been done before, to my knowledge.
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post #12 of 53
1/22/03 at 2:54pm
Canadian dislike aside, the guy's got a point. It seems we're really reaching for quality horror... the really imaginative stuff that was pumping out
like wonderful sausage a decade ago.

Then, Ginger Snaps would have been an interesting sidenote (tonally, it feels like Pump Up The Volume)... a dwarf among giants, catering to the teeny-boppers. Jeepers Creepers would have been a sub-par but memorable episode of Tales From The Crypt (it doesn't touch the better episodes, or the hem of Demon Knight for that matter).

Dark Castle releases one movie a year... Full Moon entertainment released, I'm sure, around ten titles a year... and half of that was stuff worth watching. (Subspecies, The Pit and The Pendulum, The Puppet Master 1 and 2, all top the list). Granted, Dark Castle has a budget, making copious use of Adrian Lyne's patented shaky-heads (Dark Castle owes too much to Jacob's Ladder, and Matthew Lillard).

The last good horror movie I saw was Trouble Every Day... and I haven't heard one mention of that film on this board.
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post #13 of 53
1/22/03 at 2:55pm
Quote:
japaneseguitar:
Quote:
Whiskey:
Quote:
Ugly Goblin Boy, Slave #1273:
The reality of performing an actual act of Nut Punching lies somewhere between nil and no. Unless you are sitting next to me in class right now, I have neither the drive nor ambition. Read it more as a metaphor for my extreme disagreement with your statements towards my countrymen and their art.
You're in class posting? Damn, school has changed.
For real. When I was in school I was busy scrawling Duran Duran rules on the back of my notebook.
LOL. Duran Duran Rules. I guess it could have been worse, it could have been "Kajagugu Rules."

Oh, and so as not to be acused of hijacking a thread, while you have given examples of what you consider "good" horror movies, I'm more curious to know what made them good for you?
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post #14 of 53
1/22/03 at 3:11pm
Thread Starter 
Let me reiterate.

Quote:
sweaterbydarwin:
Anway, I'm not interested in getting into a flame war because you like any of the above and I don't. I'm just mainly wanting to pick your brain about your thoughts about the past, present and more importantly, the future of the horror genre as we know it.
And call it storylines or call it filmmaking, the genre just doesn't seem as good as it used to be. Maybe it's b/c there's so much "more" that its harder to distinguish the good from the bad,I don't know. What was the last good horror film that came out in your opinion? And by good, I mean a film that will hold up for years. I doubt we'll be discussing Ginger Snaps in that respect is all I'm saying.
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post #15 of 53
1/22/03 at 3:13pm
Back to the topic, ahem...

Unfortunately, man, I feel your pain and I completely understand where you're coming from in terms of laying out the classics like TCM side by side with Jeepers Creepers. Truth of the matter is this: they don't make 'em like they used to, dude. Studios have changed, audiences have changed, filmmakers have changed. Whether the mass audience knows it or not - we're being dumbed-down and in some "They Live" kinda way, being spoon-fed shit, we're accepting it, and we're actually LIKING IT.

Everything these days seems to be a "guilty pleasure". Now, "The Ring" is one film I can say is a movie that strikes hard to the nervous system like "The Exorcist" - we really need to uphold this quality of filmmaking. Luckily, the box office for this film spoke for itself - maybe studios will learn.
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post #16 of 53
1/22/03 at 3:22pm
Thread Starter 
Thank you RRotten. And I share your sentiments on The Ring. If we could even have one movie even of that caliber a year, I would be pleased.

Funny thing when we saw that in the theater, I swear to you, at least eight or so people got up intermittently during the movie screaming and left the showing for good. That was good to see.
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post #17 of 53
1/22/03 at 3:22pm
Dog Soldiers, Session 9, The Others. That's three off the top of my head. Now I'm sure I'm going to get the usual debate over whether the one's I've listed should be considered good. Just keep in mind the question posed requires a subjective answer. I'll say this, movies like Dog Soldiers give me hope for the genre. It's not a classic, but it makes the most out of what it had to work with. No, it did not break new ground. But it's a horror film. New ground is rare.
Ok, now open the door and let the naysayers in.
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post #18 of 53
1/22/03 at 3:24pm
Thread Starter 
I saw Session 9 on Starz (I think) the other night Whiskey. I have to admit it wasn't half bad.
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post #19 of 53
1/22/03 at 3:28pm
I don't think we're starving for horror these days, I just think we're too damned nostaligic and we need, to a certain degree, get over it and move on.

I have been a horror fan my entire life, and while 26 years ain't that long, for me it is because I've spent almost all of those years seeking out any all offerings the genre has, whether it's art, film, literature, whatever. I likey the scary, it's that simple.

I love movies like House of Wax along with stuff like Re-Animator and Audition and Scream. I don't care where it came from, how old it is, or who made it, if it falls within the parameters of my personal tastes I'm psyched. And I like a lot of different things.

Now with anyone who's at an age where they're old enough to be able to make a comparison between something that came out last week to something that came out 15 years ago, there's going to be a huge noticeable difference and whether that difference is good or bad, well that's up to whoever's making the comparison in the first place.

Like Ryan said, times and audiences and Hollywood have all changed. It's up the moviegoer whether they except the changes and appreciate them or cry out at the glaring differences. This isn't to say we aren't being handed equal parts dogshit and equal parts filet mignon, it's just knowing when to draw the line between serious complaining and plain old bitching.

The thing about the horror genre is that it's not nearly as specific as some people like to think. Horror is as broad and diverse as the ocean and that's the best thing about it so the forms are varied. Some people might think Dark Waters isn't horror, but to a degree it is, and while I'm on the subject I really enjoyed it, from beginning to end. It's not in your face scary boo-yah, but it's got some seriously scary subject matter a long with some actual creepy moments that are more traditional to the genre.

And it's tough to make a call on a movie that will stand up for years for the same reason this topic is here in the first place. People and tastes change. The Thing bombed on its release and now it's one of the finest pieces of horror cinema ever created.

I may love Ringu now, but in 25 years I may be ashamed to say so. I've seen a lot of great movies in the past decade and a lot of shit, but that's to be expected. The issue is learning to not take everything to heart. Don't fall into the trap of getting tied up in expectations and comparisons because sooner or later, you won't be able to enjoy anything.
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post #20 of 53
1/22/03 at 3:30pm
Quote:
sweaterbydarwin:
Let me clarify Sadako-

Because I enjoy a film does not make it good. Like a dog, I too sometimes enjoy crap.

My point in all of this is to only raise the question that there hasn't been a horror movie released in the last ten years that holds a candle to what we got in the past. It just seems to have gotten watered down is all. I'm anxious for something good, aren't you?

With that said, I enjoyed The Ring and for the most part,I also enjoyed Dog Soldiers.
Well I agree sweaterbydarwin. They don't make them like they used to. I doubt there will ever be a film that terrified me to the core of my soul the way Exorcist did. However with films like Ring and The Eye I feel that we may not be lost.
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post #21 of 53
1/22/03 at 3:31pm
I love Ginger Snaps. I love Dog Soldiers (wet, sloppy love for this one). I love Session 9. I love Attic Expeditions.

See, I'm different than you. If the movie can take me out of myself, make me forget for the duration, or what is going on around me, I consider it great. I may have mentioned this on the boards, but I sat through Dog Soldiers and smoked half a pack of cigarettes without even noticing it.

That's what makes a quality movie for me. Not the FX. Not the budget for special effects.

Ok, y'all can call me an idiot now. *sigh*
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post #22 of 53
1/22/03 at 3:45pm
Thread Starter 
Agreed Creetch. The problem is, there are even fewer horror movies that I want to rememember tomorrow, much less twenty five years from now. I like horror movies and I, for better or worse, will keep watching them. I'm not swearing them off and am still optimistic going into them. Hopefully, that won't change.

And Kitty, there are far worse skeletons in my "Films I Like" closet than the ones I mentioned so I wouldn't dream of labeling you.
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post #23 of 53
1/22/03 at 3:47pm
Opinions vary.
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post #24 of 53
1/22/03 at 3:47pm
Ah the times have changed indeed...

Long have passed the days were you would find as good a horror movie as John Carpenter's "The Thing" in the movie theaters.

sniff! frown
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post #25 of 53
1/22/03 at 3:51pm
Yeah, it's good if you like bad acting, cut rate FX, and Canadians.

Oh yeah, I forgot! Fuck off wanker!

Cheers hey!
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post #26 of 53
1/22/03 at 3:54pm
Thread Starter 
Goblin, I don't think it has to do with being nostalgic or comparing it to days of old. These films were, in my humble opinion, just better-storyline, acting, directing. Maybe because they did more with less instead of less with more as it now seems to be the case.

By the way, I'd never insult a movie that has Treat Williams in it...except maybe Substitute 2.
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post #27 of 53
1/22/03 at 4:02pm
Thread Starter 
And for the record, I like Canada...Canadians and all.
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post #28 of 53
1/22/03 at 4:05pm
Quote:
VintageViolence:
The last good horror movie I saw was Trouble Every Day... and I haven't heard one mention of that film on this board.
Gah! Need to see that! I missed it at the Brattle and then forgot all a out it. Thanks for the reminder!
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post #29 of 53
1/22/03 at 4:07pm
i think horror is no different than any other genre when it comes to new films v. old films. There are always going to be people out there who believe the old stuff is better no matter what. it seems time has the ability to build/hype up a movie in our minds to the point of not being able to compare it to anything. I love old Horror but i also dig on new horror as well I think every age of horror has its classics as well as its lesser films and i think its unfair to todays generation of horror films and filmmakers to constantly be comparing them to what came before. I think Session 9 stands up as a great horror flick in the vein of old school horror and i think Jeepers Creepers is a great Creature Feature but i also love The Thing and The Exorcist. You gotta be able to accept these new offerings without instantly comparing them to your fav movies
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post #30 of 53
1/22/03 at 4:17pm
Thread Starter 
Moving along, what do you guys expect from Dreamcatcher? It's got a great cast and I'm decidedly optimistic.
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post #31 of 53
1/22/03 at 4:18pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Ugly Goblin Boy, Slave #1273:
So would you say that it's the next generation of writers/directors or the atmosphere of horror films in general? An obvious example a fallen hero would be John Carpenter. Its hard to believe that the same man who brought us Halloween, The Thing (remake), Assault on Precinct 13, & Escape from New York could also waste hours of my precious existence and money with atrocities such as Vampires, Ghosts of Mars, Escape from L.A., & Village of the Damned. Each generation has their writers/directors that waste huge budgets on cinematic abortions, for every John Carpenter there is a John Carpenter...
Ghosts of Mars...why did you have to remind me? I bet Carpenter's kid is still pissed his Dad blew up his model train set.
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post #32 of 53
1/22/03 at 4:21pm
Quote:
sweaterbydarwin:
And for the record, I like Canada...Canadians and all.
Well then, pardon my english and Cheers!
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post #33 of 53
1/22/03 at 4:24pm
I think one of the problems is studios no longer allow someone with talent like old school john carpenter to make the movies they want. They are relegated to trying to hammer out a low budget horror flick with bad actors and bad effects. i.e. Ginger Snaps (which i enjoyed) or The Convent (One of my fav fun horror Flicks) Or they butcher the final product like what happened to Del Toro and Mimic. Studios want safe horror movies. which is a goddamn oxymoron
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post #34 of 53
1/22/03 at 4:26pm
Quote:
sweaterbydarwin:
Moving along, what do you guys expect from Dreamcatcher? It's got a great cast and I'm decidedly optimistic.
And I believe I’m quoting someone from this board when I say this, I hope it will be to horror what pitch black was to sci-fi. A very welcome oasis in a desert of mediocrity.

Cheers!
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post #35 of 53
1/22/03 at 4:31pm
Quote:
Ugly Goblin Boy, Slave #1273:
When I heard Ghosts Of Mars was being released, you couldn't imagine my excitement. Mostly due to the fact that it would be my first John Carpenter film to be seen on the silver screen. So, you can imagine my disappointment when I walked out with my equally excited brother... To quote myself, cinematic abortion!
Stay off of my Ghost of Mars.

It is a sci-fi western not a horror flic and I love it, throw your stones, I care not. And I have no shame in saying: "I love it". No movie with buzz-saw yo-yos and decapitation can be bad

Cheers!
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post #36 of 53
1/22/03 at 4:40pm
That was exactly my point Goblin Boy. It really sux that to find a good scare i have to wait for a movie to go directly to video or buy a movie off of ebay. Not to say the stuff that does come out in theaters isnt good because i love jeepers Creepers and The Ring but we need a kick in the balls-shit in your pants-cant sleep because you are shivering like a little girl crazy horror movie to be released. Like texas Chainsaw Massacre (no not the remake) But it seems like that wont happen, i mean the best horror movie of last year was one that came directly to video. Dagon.
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post #37 of 53
1/22/03 at 4:45pm
Thread Starter 
The only thing Ghosts of Mars should have had going for it was Natasha Henstridge naked and they coudn't even pull that off. Take a note from Species Mr. Carpenter-that movie had guys my age lined up out the door
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post #38 of 53
1/22/03 at 4:47pm
Quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by VintageViolence:
The last good horror movie I saw was Trouble Every Day... and I haven't heard one mention of that film on this board.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gah! Need to see that! I missed it at the Brattle and then forgot all a out it. Thanks for the reminder!
Yeah, I actually saw it at the Brattle. And it deserves a ton of attention. If there's one horror movie that broke barriers these past five years, it was that one. I'm not saying its seminal, but it had a real imagination.

And though I'm not saying I wouldn't crawl back into my womb of 80s slasher flicks if offered the chance, I do welcome change and the future. I just wished it had more balls.
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post #39 of 53
1/22/03 at 4:51pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Calitheus:
i mean the best horror movie of last year was one that came directly to video. Dagon.
I've been tempted but just can't pull the trigger. How good?

And why oh why can't more Lovecraftian movies be made.
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post #40 of 53
1/22/03 at 4:51pm
'Dagon'. It's all about that movie, plain and simple. That was the best horror movie of last year, bollocks to 'The Ring'.

My thoughts on this were pretty well covered in the latest editorial, but I'll just reiterate; I think horror is in a better position now than it has been for many, many years. Studios are taking chances, more quality lowe budget stuff is coming out, and even the indie filmmaker (as a breed, no one specific) has higher quality stuff than I would expect from them.

(edited because I missed the only 'Dagon' reference previous to this post)

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post #41 of 53
1/22/03 at 5:00pm
[/QUOTE]I've been tempted but just can't pull the trigger. How good?

And why oh why can't more Lovecraftian movies be made.[/QB][/QUOTE]

Dagon is a very good horror flick. it has a night of the living dead feel to it and it is pretty creepy. I would give it a rental before buying but i doubt you would be dissappointed in it. Plus it has something on its mind besides just horror. go to the creature corner wbesite and check out their review of it. I highly recommend it.
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post #42 of 53
1/22/03 at 5:05pm
I wouldn't say Dagon's solid Lovecraft though. Good for a Stuart Gordon movie, yes (Shadow Over Innsmouth didn't have, and doesn't need, a Temple of Doom ending). But Lovecraft? That hasn't been made yet.
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post #43 of 53
1/22/03 at 5:13pm
I do agree that Horror is in a great position right now and i am very excited to read about new projects coming down the pipe and i am more excited about the upcoming horror movies this year that in previous years but i just hope that the next time a movie like Dagon is made it will get a somewhat wide release this way i can enjoy the movie where it is meant to be seen on the Big Screen. That is my only gripe but it seems this might be changing. Kick ass for the Dagon love from Butane
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post #44 of 53
1/22/03 at 5:14pm
Thread Starter 
<strong>
Quote:
Digital has opened up a whole new world to up and coming filmmakers to create high quality films with standard radio shack supplies.

(Note: Edited for quotation)
I've seen their work. Its called Coven. See American Movie for reference.
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post #45 of 53
1/22/03 at 5:16pm
its called Session 9 too, which is a criminally underrated horror flick
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post #46 of 53
1/22/03 at 5:23pm
I guess what I look for is ambition. I can tolerate a so-so horror movie if I sense ambition in the filmmakers. That's why I give movies like Session 9 much more credit than the Dark Castle ones. I mean, how on earth could Thirteen Ghosts be so damn bad? Sure, there was ambition in 13G's (hmmm, did I just come up with a title for an urban gangster film?), but it got buried under the weight of bad acting, scripting, editing, et. al. I wonder if the creative ambition lost the struggle against the other ambition: need for profit. It reeks of executive interference in the name of box office dollars. For me, that equals death. Make the movie and trust the fans to see it. Don't throw in skateboards and jumpy editing because that's what the kids are wanting these days. Though I wasn't completely enamored with HOHH, I thought it had ambition. It really tried to thrill the horror fan without too much concern of how the general public would take it.
My name is Patrick, and I'm a horror fan. Go out there and try to scare me. I'll appreciate you. I promise.
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post #47 of 53
1/22/03 at 5:46pm
Thread Starter 
American Movie-Now that movie was genius. His buddy, who for the life of me I can't remember his name-Mike I think, was the greatest character real or fiction to ever grace the silver screen.
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post #48 of 53
1/22/03 at 5:49pm
Thread Starter 
In the not so same vein Goblin Boy, you should check out a movie called The Dancing Outlaw. A great documentary that is disturbing in its own right.
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post #49 of 53
1/22/03 at 7:19pm
Quote:
sweaterbydarwin:
In the not so same vein Goblin Boy, you should check out a movie called The Dancing Outlaw. A great documentary that is disturbing in its own right.
Yeah. Don't forget "Dancing Outlaw II: Jesco goes to Hollywood."

That signiture quote brings back memories.

Anybody from Canada know how to get me a job up there? I want to move to Canada soooo bad. Seriously. I'm highly qualified.

edited due to stupidity

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post #50 of 53
1/22/03 at 8:33pm
Quote:
A Caustic for all Seasons:
It's also important to keep in mind that honestly, the shit-to-quality ratio HAS NOT CHANGED. If these were the only films released in the "good old days" then it'd be a different story, but you guys are forgetting that crappy movies have ALWAYS been produced. It is, in fact, a crapshoot to see what will and will not work.
This is the smartest, dead-on comment I've read in quite awhile. I couldn't put it any better, so I won't.
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