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Home theater 7.1 vs. 5.1

post #1 of 20
2/11/10 at 3:54pm
Thread Starter 
I've got an Onkyo receiver with a 7.1 speaker setup. Since I dont have a Blu-Ray player yet, my two left and right rear speakers are outputing the same signal (ie: I have both right rear speakers plugged into the same right rear output.) So the same signal is being output to two speakers.

Now that I finally can upgrade to a Blu-Ray player, I can wire each individual speaker. My question is: If a Blu-ray disc is only in 5.1 output, do the middle left/right speakers go silent?

It seems like a waste of two speakers if only a few Blu-rays have 7.1 audio output, and all the 5.1's have the two middle speakers silent. They'd hardly be used at all.

Any other chewers here with this setup that can validate what happens?
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post #2 of 20
2/11/10 at 9:14pm
Nah, they still output something, but the channels won't really be listed as unique, at least for mine (and mine's about 5 years old). As long as you place them properly (I have one set of rears on the side/ear level and then another set behind/high), you should still get some added enjoyment out of those two extra channels, especially for gaming.
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post #3 of 20
2/11/10 at 9:23pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks, Scott. That lessens my worry about this.

I forgot to mention the gaming part. That is important to me too. I'm looking forward to my new system.
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post #4 of 20
2/11/10 at 10:12pm
Well you can set it where it doesn't use those rear speakers, but if you have a 7.1 setup, the sounds can come sounding off depending on your speaker placement. Of course you can have a receiver mix a 5.1 to the rears to get a pseudo 7.1.

With a majority of the games and blu ray movies in 5.1 I just setup my system for 5.1 (i didn't even buy 2 extra speakers).
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post #5 of 20
2/11/10 at 11:07pm
Part of the problem is that there's not a lot of movies mixed for 7.1 so those extra speakers will be useless 90% of the time. If you can switch to a 5.1 setting that's what I would do. You have less of a chance of getting dissonance from the superfluous speakers.
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post #6 of 20
2/12/10 at 2:45am
Depends on your preference. Im a bit of a purist so I set mine to 5.1 for 5.1 movies and my back two speakers stay silent. But of course when I pop in a 7.1 movie it's there. You have the option of the reciever remixing a 5.1 signal into a 7.1 signal but I personally don't like it.
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post #7 of 20
2/12/10 at 2:56am
Not being a purist at all, I just let the 7.1 go all the time. Even if the extra 2 aren't coded independently and they share the same output as the rears it still fills up the room a bit more than when it's just the 5.1 going.

It's not a huge difference, and I am admittedly a pig when it comes to being engulfed in sound so I'd never sell someone on getting 7.1 but if you have it, I say be a pig and enjoy it.

Mind you, I'm no audiophile or anything, I'm more in tune with what I like as opposed to what's "accurate" regarding the mix. That's just how Papa Tim rolls, I guess.

For the record, I'll take DTS over Dolby any day of the week... again, I'm an audio pig and DTS does way more with all of the speakers. Not that anyone asked or anything.
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post #8 of 20
2/12/10 at 3:24am
Oh I love DTS-MA on blu ray, but the trueHD on Star Trek is pretty damn good as well (The Dark Knight has a dial norm, but if you compensate for it, umm its pretty crazy).

Really high quality sound is a reason I can't support content on demand stuff. It just comes no where close.
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post #9 of 20
2/12/10 at 5:24am
See thats the thing though. Both DolbyTrueHD and DTSHD-MA really shouldn't be different. They are both there to replicate exactly what was in the theatre. Technically you shoud be able to listen to them side by side with the same movie and not hear a difference yet some do, weird.
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post #10 of 20
2/12/10 at 1:27pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy Q View Post
Not being a purist at all, I just let the 7.1 go all the time. Even if the extra 2 aren't coded independently and they share the same output as the rears it still fills up the room a bit more than when it's just the 5.1 going.
So I set up my shits last night, and after wiring everything, I wasn't getting any sound out of the rear speakers. I pulled up the manual, and found that originally I had turned to power output to them off. Once I turned them on, they both received a signal (probably the same as the side ones since I dont have blu-ray yet). I don't care about discrete, I just love being engulfed, as well. I anxiously await my new blu-ray player.

Thanks for the help, guys.
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post #11 of 20
2/12/10 at 4:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Allen View Post
I don't care about discrete, I just love being engulfed, as well.
I don't want to be that guy but sound being my big geek I kinda have to...

This sort of thing drives me nuts. It's the equivalent of watching a 4:3 movie on at 1.85:1 because you like to use the whole screen. You should always try to watch (and listen to) the movie in the way the director and mixer intended.
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post #12 of 20
2/12/10 at 4:30pm
Thread Starter 
So, which on drives you nuts: the idea that the side right and rear right have the same signal, or the idea that I'm not watching the film as the mixer intended? Because I think I can gain a little extra sound in my living room and not alter the original vision too much.

This is not the same as widescreen vs. full screen. It's more practical, like "do I have to turn off and on speakers whenever I watch a movie/play a game, or just leave them all on, all the time?"

edited to add: I see now that you do sound mixing for a living, so I can understand your passion towards this. Like I said though, for me it's more a matter of practicality (I dont want to have to go into the receiver setup all the time to switch speakers off/on.)
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post #13 of 20
2/12/10 at 4:38pm
Yeah, I can turn a set off if I want pretty easily. And if you have a multi-stereo option (where sound comes out of every channel except the center), it's pretty killer for music.
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post #14 of 20
2/12/10 at 4:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Allen View Post
So, which on drives you nuts: the idea that the side right and rear right have the same signal, or the idea that I'm not watching the film as the mixer intended? Because I think I can gain a little extra sound in my living room and not alter the original vision too much.
Actually you do alter it. When you mix in 5.1 part of what you are doing is deciding where fx/bgs/foley go and how they move from speaker to speaker based on a very specific speaker set up.

Look at it this way: imagine a character walking off screen. You move the foley from speaker to speaker in a way that's psychologically real based on a 5.1 set up ie) left-to-right, front-to-back etc. Adding a play back speaker that is essentially at a 90 degree angle from what the mixer (and director) intended screws up the geography so it doesn't have the smooth grace that they worked so hard on. The sound is no longer solely in the rear, if that's what they intended, it's also on the side, which is not what they intended.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Allen View Post
This is not the same as widescreen vs. full screen. It's more practical, like "do I have to turn off and on speakers whenever I watch a movie/play a game, or just leave them all on, all the time?"
I get practicality but doesn't your receiver have both 5.1 and 7.1 settings? You should be able to change from 5.1 to 7.1 at the flick of a button on the remote.
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post #15 of 20
2/12/10 at 4:55pm
As far as I know, the only stuff I know that generally uses 7.1 are PS3 games. I think the 360 can't even output as multichannel PCM, it has to be Dolby Digital or DTS which are both 5.1 specs.

ETA: I might suggest that if you want to use the speakers for something, set them up as a zone 2 in another room. I'll probably be doing that once I don't have to run speaker wire across a hallway to get it out of the room.
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post #16 of 20
2/12/10 at 7:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waaaaaaaalt View Post
See thats the thing though. Both DolbyTrueHD and DTSHD-MA really shouldn't be different. They are both there to replicate exactly what was in the theatre. Technically you shoud be able to listen to them side by side with the same movie and not hear a difference yet some do, weird.
Well, the way they are coded is different. Dolby generally is center channel-centric with more nuanced sounds in the surround. DTS is generally a sack rocker through all the channels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan S~ View Post
I don't want to be that guy but sound being my big geek I kinda have to...

This sort of thing drives me nuts. It's the equivalent of watching a 4:3 movie on at 1.85:1 because you like to use the whole screen. You should always try to watch (and listen to) the movie in the way the director and mixer intended.
Honestly, I wish my aural capabilities were sophisticated enough to pick up the differences but they're not. I've experimented and the sound difference has been negligible to me with the exception that 7.1 fills up the room more and on a consistent basis. I really hate being the ignorant caveman with stuff like this as I like to think I'm rather sophistcated with my tech knowledge and senses but it is what it is. Let's just blame it on very loud hard rock music and being in bars since I was a toddler. Thanks mom!
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post #17 of 20
2/13/10 at 12:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy Q View Post
Honestly, I wish my aural capabilities were sophisticated enough to pick up the differences but they're not. I've experimented and the sound difference has been negligible to me with the exception that 7.1 fills up the room more and on a consistent basis. I really hate being the ignorant caveman with stuff like this as I like to think I'm rather sophistcated with my tech knowledge and senses but it is what it is. Let's just blame it on very loud hard rock music and being in bars since I was a toddler. Thanks mom!
It's true that not everyone has impeccable hearing so I get that not everyone will appreciate the art and skill in a good mix. But most people can tell the difference between what sounds right and what doesn't so I'm always amazed that people are willing to compromise getting the best out of their system. Or worse yet, spend 2500 on a TV and only 500 on your sound system.
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post #18 of 20
2/13/10 at 12:57am
This may be asking a little much but can you recommend a film (or more specifically a scene) where 5.1 to 7.1 sounds "wrong"? I'd like to experiment a little more and change my mind about this if I see fit. So far, I've never noticed anything seem out of place regarding where the sound should come from. I have a lot of films so any semi-popular geek movies will probably be sufficient.

Although, On Blu my pickins are slim. Boogie Nights, Fight Club, There Will Be Blood, Assassination of Jesse James are a few...
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post #19 of 20
2/13/10 at 1:14pm
Children of Men and No Country are the best examples I can think of.
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post #20 of 20
2/13/10 at 2:46pm
I happen to have No Country BD from Netflix right now... well played! I'll be watching it soon.
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