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Amadeus (1984)

post #1 of 35
Thread Starter 
Watched this for the first time today, which is odd because I'm a massive classical music fun, and I have to say I was really impressed. It's pointless going on about the portrayal of Salieri vs. the actual historical facts (him being best buds and subservient to Mozart would make a very boring film) but I loved the way that the film used different people in Mozart's life to try and explain, at least on a surface level, how the man worked.

All historical records suggest that Mozart was something of a Savant, a simpering dullard with an amazing talent for music and with absolutely no social graces whatsoever, and as such I really liked Tom Hulce's central performance. He plays Mozart like an 18th Century rock star and it manages to convey both the dynamism of Mozart's music and the vague banality of the man himself.

Abraham is astounding as Salieri, in particular his mournfully playful older incarnation is amazing, and his scenes together with Hulce are amazing. The final scene they share together is just amazing, and heartbreaking, with Salieri failing to even transcribe Mozart's work.

Jeffery Jones is great as Joseph II, although given his personal circumstances it's always a bit off putting when he shows up in films now, and I really liked that he played the character as someone utterly in love with music on a base level. The issue with Mozart's work having 'too many notes' tells you a great deal about the temperament of the character but Jones really sells the idea of a character who is theoretically enraptured by music but only really understands it on a base level.

The music is amazing, naturally, but it's the way it's used which is amazing. Mozart transforming Salieri's march into something extraordinary is amazing to see and Salieri's descriptions of the power and beauty of Mozart's work is just amazing.

What's odd is that despite never seeing the film I felt I already had scene a number of scenes, it feels like a film where it's sort of thematically seeped into the collective conciousness somehow.
post #2 of 35
One of my favorite films, and Forman's best I think. It's way more fun than it has any right to be. Still surprised Hulce and Abraham weren't catapulted into stardom, it's a truly Shakespearean piece of work all around.
post #3 of 35
I haven't seen this flick since I bought the 2 disc Director's Cut back in 2003. It was a blind buy for me, but I remember really liking it a lot.

I need to revisit my dvd of it.
post #4 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rene (Mr.Eko) View Post
I haven't seen this flick since I bought the 2 disc Director's Cut back in 2003. It was a blind buy for me, but I remember really liking it a lot.

I need to revisit my dvd of it.
I prefer the original theatrical cut, though I think the dvd's one of those crappy WB snapper case flip discs.
post #5 of 35
I've never seen that one, and I've always heard that it's the better version. Also that the topless scene is what makes the Director's Cut rated R.
post #6 of 35
Wonderful for how it speaks to the artist's fear of mediocrity, and how frightening it is when your creativity requires painful work rather than just effortlessly flowing as it does from a genius. The scene of Salieri accepting his patron sainthood is one that amazes and scares the shit out of me. I hate relating to that character, but goddammit I do.
post #7 of 35
My favorite bit is when Salieri's looking over Mozart's notation, when he realizes that not a single correction has been made, and he alone can recognize its absolute beauty. When he drops the papers and Mozart's wife asks 'Is it not good?' What a great movie. Saw this in 70mm back in '84. One of those films TV can't do justice to.
post #8 of 35
Yeah, this is excellent, and anything that satirizes it instantly gets extra cool points. Like this brilliant Mr Show sketch.

The Jeffrey Jones situation is too bad, as he's a really good actor. Thin normal Jeffrey Jones is great, fat old Jeffrey Jones is just as good, but creepy pedophile Jeffrey Jones kind of blows the whole deal.
post #9 of 35
I already had a strong suspicion at the time, but I knew 30 Rock was great when they structured an episode around an Amadeus parody.
post #10 of 35
One of my favorite films and one I never tire of revisiting.

It's the perfect adaptation; historical significance is there, but it's not weighed down by it.

It's laugh-out-loud funny, tender, and heartbreaking.
post #11 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiskey tango foxtrot View Post
My favorite bit is when Salieri's looking over Mozart's notation, when he realizes that not a single correction has been made, and he alone can recognize its absolute beauty. When he drops the papers and Mozart's wife asks 'Is it not good?' What a great movie.
This is one of the best scene's in any film; ever. Fucking fantastic. Abraham is just amazing in this. This is the first film I ever saw as a kid that I was completely blown away by that wasn't a horror/science fiction thing. I was astounded that I could love a movie so much that didn't feature a light saber or a killer shark.
Love the little running gag about Saleri being a sweet tooth, stealing pastries and nodules of sugar when he can.
post #12 of 35
Has everyone seen the Directors Cut? Watched the movie late last year and kept seeing a few scenes that I didn't remember from previous viewing. Nothing earth shattering had been added if memory serves; at least nothing that added to the movie significantly, but it was a nice discovery.
post #13 of 35
Double Post. Move Along.
post #14 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by OCallaghan View Post
Has everyone seen the Directors Cut? Watched the movie late last year and kept seeing a few scenes that I didn't remember from previous viewing. Nothing earth shattering had been added if memory serves; at least nothing that added to the movie significantly, but it was a nice discovery.
It adds a tutoring scene, and some stuff with Salieri and Constanze. It was actually the Director's Cut that I saw projected at a festival with Milos in attendance. There was a Q&A afterwards and I asked about the differences (I've never seen the theatrical cut) and he kind of hilariously apologized for the length, saying the additions weren't of major importance and only put back in by virtue of "pause buttons for trips to the bathroom."
post #15 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by OCallaghan View Post
This is one of the best scene's in any film; ever. Fucking fantastic. Abraham is just amazing in this. This is the first film I ever saw as a kid that I was completely blown away by that wasn't a horror/science fiction thing. I was astounded that I could love a movie so much that didn't feature a light saber or a killer shark.
Love the little running gag about Saleri being a sweet tooth, stealing pastries and nodules of sugar when he can.
Yeah, I'd seen a lot of classic films by that point but I think this was the first film outside of the Lucas/Spielberg canon I'd truly appreciated.
post #16 of 35
Thread Starter 
I do love the different elements of Salieri’s character. Not just the duality of his being awe inspired by Mozart’s work and furious at his god given talent at the same time, but in the way the older Salieri turns the tale into yet another performance. Savouring the exquisite deviousness of his plan to destroy his rival. The story, in a lot of ways, seems to be his last Opera, his last orchestration and performance and he relishes it.
post #17 of 35
This is on Netflix Instant Watch, just added it, as I haven't seen it in a while.

I've seen the original play, and it's much more Salieri-centric than the film.
post #18 of 35
I can only echo what has been said before in this thread. Brilliant film with some amazing perfomances.

A friend of mine played Salieri in a stage version, he made no secrect of the fact he based his performace of the man on Abraham's take.
post #19 of 35
Where did Tom Hulce go? He matches Abrahams blow-for-blow here, which is no mean feat. And retaining the boorish American accent is a masterstroke.

There was an interview somewhere with (I think) Forman, where he ind of waspishly claimed that Abrahams got the gig due to being not unlike Salieri in real life. Ouch.

Crazy remake idea: Scorsese behind the camera. Justin Long as Mozart. Daniel Day-Lewis as Salieri.
post #20 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Marshall View Post
The music is amazing, naturally, but it's the way it's used which is amazing. Mozart transforming Salieri's march into something extraordinary is amazing to see and Salieri's descriptions of the power and beauty of Mozart's work is just amazing.
These two sequences, along with Salieri helping Mozart write the Requiem, are just perfection. I've only seen the director's cut though, and based on what I've read about what they added (length, mostly), I wonder if I might not prefer the original a bit.

One of the things I think makes this stand out from other stories about bitter rivalry is that Salieri was really Mozart's biggest fan, and the only one around who truly appreciated his music - if he'd been less of a competitive jerk he could've been one of the heroes of the story. I also like the way he wasn't bitter about Mozart's fame and success so much as the way his talents exposed his own inadequacy.
post #21 of 35
All of the scenes mentioned I totally agree with. I too bought the director's cut blind around 2002 and it instantly became one of my favourites.

I was heavily into weed at the time and watching this stoned was like a religious experience. The integration of music into scenes is phenomenal, Salieri discussing the thematic elements of not only Mozart's operas but of the text itself is wonderful.

Love love love. Amazing film. If only there were more films like this sweeping the Academy awards. The distance in quality between this and something like Chicago is ludicrous.
post #22 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merriweather View Post
There was an interview somewhere with (I think) Forman, where he ind of waspishly claimed that Abrahams got the gig due to being not unlike Salieri in real life. Ouch.
Well, it does seem accurate. It's the role of his lifetime.

Fun facts: Kenneth Branagh was one of the final contenders to play Mozart. In the Broadway premiere of the play, Mozart was played by Tim Curry and Salieri was played by IAN MCKELLEN.
post #23 of 35
Holy God, switch him in for DDL in that bit of fanwankery I did up there. That shit's perfect.
post #24 of 35
For a while, I used this film as a barometer for my friends. Those that found it boring or, "gay," were culled from any movie discussions I would later have. Love this movie to death, and the, "Play Salieri," scene still gives me chills every time I watch it.
post #25 of 35
I came to this movie as a Peter Shaffer fan. I haven't seen it in almost ten years, but the thing which struck me most was the verve with which the film tackles Salieri's relationship with God. The gesture of throwing the cross into the flames. His jealousy for Mozart. And as serious as things get, like others said before, Forman and the actors keep it so fun -- for three hours! Haven't thought about this one in awhile. Probably one of my favorites.

Also, the photography is gorgeous. That one opera scene Mozart conducts really blew me away.
post #26 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul C View Post
One of the things I think makes this stand out from other stories about bitter rivalry is that Salieri was really Mozart's biggest fan, and the only one around who truly appreciated his music
I don't know, there's a strong thread the emerges near the end with the parody of Don Giovanni and the performance of The Magic Flute that Mozart was wasting his time trying to impress the nobility and that he should have been writing for the common people.
post #27 of 35
I tried watching this twice, but I was so, so very bored...and Salieri's old age pancake makeup was brutal. Over an hour in, I guess nothing was very wrong with the film, it only seemed a bit lifeless to me, like, well, prototypical Awards bait. I dunno, I'll be revisiting it again, just because it does seem really well enjoyed by people, especially those who usually loathe Awards bait.
post #28 of 35
Louse, I'm done with you.

Every single thing you just said, apart from the fact that you'll watch the film, is pretty much objectively wrong.
post #29 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreary louse View Post
I tried watching this twice, but I was so, so very bored...and Salieri's old age pancake makeup was brutal. Over an hour in, I guess nothing was very wrong with the film, it only seemed a bit lifeless to me, like, well, prototypical Awards bait. I dunno, I'll be revisiting it again, just because it does seem really well enjoyed by people, especially those who usually loathe Awards bait.
Man, is the simple the best movie ever made.
post #30 of 35
Love this movie on every level. I will echo the confusion as to how this film did not make Tom Hulce a star.
post #31 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreary louse View Post
I tried watching this twice, but I was so, so very bored...and Salieri's old age pancake makeup was brutal. Over an hour in, I guess nothing was very wrong with the film, it only seemed a bit lifeless to me, like, well, prototypical Awards bait. I dunno, I'll be revisiting it again, just because it does seem really well enjoyed by people, especially those who usually loathe Awards bait.
You just have the worst taste. Ever.
post #32 of 35
I have just finished my first ever full blu ray system with receiver and nice speakers. I have been buying and hiring blu's with abandon since because... well you know.

My local video store has a small blu ray section and I just picked up some movies that I had never seen, AMADEUS included. It was sat on the table for a week and It was the last movie I watched yesterday afternoon.

I remember the movie coming out in 1984 and didn't see it. I remember also 'rock me amadeus' the song being out around that time. I'm waffling.

I think I have had something akin to a spiritual experience watching this movie. It is an utterly fantastic story and piece of cinema. And the music! Dear god, my house was full of the most wonderful music ever written. The sound on blu ray is fantastic.

I am a musician and a lot of Salieri's fears of mediocrity are chillingly relevent to me. How can you compete or even create music when faced with utter genius that you can never match? There is a scene that really got to me when he was talking about god putting talent into him 'like a lust' but Salieri not being able to express it.

I agree with everything all the above posts have said (apart from the negative one's) Jeffrey Jones was excellent too. His Emperor was an endearing, bumbling god awful piano player. A refreshing change.

My one major gripe that I find totally strange but is not a problem for the movie is Simon Callow. A British actor. And a great one. There are many other British actors in this movie and they speak with an English accent whether they are German or Austrian in the movie. So why does Simon Callow put on this god awful American accent for this movie?? It totally took me out of the film.

Also, big big love for boobs in bodices. Mozart's wife is just lovely!

One of my Favourite films of all time is Barry Lyndon. I can't help but compare the two. Especially the photography and using natural light.
post #33 of 35
My favorite scene is the final exchange between Mozart and Salieri, in which Mozart says of him: "I'm so ashamed. I didn't think you cared for my work or myself."

As much as Salieri wanted to loathe Mozart, no one was as loved by Salieri as Mozart.

It's a film that fills me with such incessant joy as no other film does.
post #34 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by OCallaghan View Post
Love the little running gag about Saleri being a sweet tooth, stealing pastries and nodules of sugar when he can.
I hadn't connected those bits before, but you're right - nice catch. And it just reinforces what an utterly superior film this is.

Too many excellent scenes to name. It's truly one of those films you just savor the entire running time.

To this day, my family still uses "too many notes" as a descriptor.
post #35 of 35
I watched it again and it's quite enjoyable. Still can't believe Abraham as old Salieri, but that's my only gripe with the film. I wish the tired framing device was edited out, but ah, still a worthy picture. I mean, come on, "The old man reflecting on life" is the oldest, worst Lifetime trick, and below the rest of the film. I am nitpicking because this film as already been praised in many details in this thread, and I'd rate this a 9.
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