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The Rock (1996)

post #1 of 45
Thread Starter 
*I swear to Christ I did a Chud and Google search for a thread and couldn't find one*

Despite proving to be utterly useless in the film this is the movie that convinced me and several of my friends that we wanted to be Navy Seals when we were 11. Thankfully we, mostly, figured out that a) the Navy Seals are American, not British and b) joining the military would be a bad idea. But for those three days I was adamant I wanted to be a Navy Seal.

Anyways, THE ROCK. It's one of my favourite action movies and despite being a little long, although Michael Bay tends to make his films a little too lengthy, but it moves like a motherfucker. It never feels inert or that it's spinning its wheels and it's major action setpieces, whilst never reaching the excessive joy of BAD BOYS 2, are lean and mean affairs.

Ed Harris is definitely the star of the film, his Hummel is an interesting character in that a film as brash as THE ROCK he's humane and conflicted. Of course he gets replaced by uber-villains by the end, but it's interesting have what is essentially a villainous protagonist at the heart of the film.

I also remember this being a revelation at the time due to Nicholas Cage, who was best know for comedies and for drinking himself to death in LEAVING LAST VEGAS, being an action star. Of course this film is the pupa from which CRAZY CAGE would emerge, but at the time it was jarring.

Sean Connery should have totally retired after this film, he's not fantastic in it but it's a more fitting end than THE AVENGERS or LXG.

Biehn is barely in the film, but the rest of the ancillary cast are great. In particular Morse, McGinnley and Todd are great as the eviler members of Hummel's crew.

The score is absolutely amazing too, Hummel Steals The Rockets is one of the pieces of music which is just utterly evocative.

My only real issue with the movie is Bay's fondness for his comedy stereotypes but even they can't detract from what is a great, well staged and genuinely fun movie.
post #2 of 45
Love this movie, got the widescreen VHS, the Criterion DVD and most likely will get the Blu Ray double dip. It's loud, stupid but damn is it slick. When people talk about Bad Boys I tend to check out, but mention this gem and I'm all there.

And the FBI is wonderfully portrayed as a bunch of typical bureaucrats. William Forsythe is great, and John Spencer is even greater in this comedy duo, delivering dialogue referring to the Roswell Alien landing with a straight face.
post #3 of 45
Spike Marshall, The hummer chase is very cool indeed in...The Rock. The entire cast from Nic Cage, Sean Connery, Tony Todd Ed Harris and Michael Biehn. I feel that Michael Biehn played a better Navy Seal in...The Rock, than he did in...Navy Seals. Ed Harris is terrific as the bad yet not...EEEEEEEEEEvil General, that Cage and Connery have to stop to save San Francisco. This is the first Michael Bay film I saw, and I thought the same way then as I do now...The Rock...Rocks around the clock!, and is completely...Awesome!
post #4 of 45
I have no shame admitting this is my favorite Bay film...i love it.
Also, its good enough for Criterion, god dammit!
post #5 of 45
Love, Love, Love this movie. There is an ongoing debate amoung my friends about which is better this, or Con Air, for me it's The Rock hands down.

Many a walk back from the pub was littered with exchanges of.

"Stand Down!"
"I can't give that order!"
"Stand Down!"
"I can't give that order!"

Forget Bad Boys 2 this is Bay's masterpiece.
post #6 of 45
I need to get the BR. Love this movie as well. Can't believe my stupid friends wouldn't go with me to see this at the theater when it first came out. My roommate and I went when it hit the local drafthouse, and he couldn't tell me enough about it. And I wasn't disappointed. My favorite part of the movie is when Goodspeed asks Mason if the guy's foot wiggling was normal, and if he could do anything about it, to which Mason responds, "Whaddya want me to do? Kill him again?"

My biggest complaint? Not enough Vanessa Marcil. Goddamn, she's hot.
post #7 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martianman View Post
My biggest complaint? Not enough Vanessa Marcil. Goddamn, she's hot.
Supporting evidence of this claim can be found in a recent Daily Graboid post
post #8 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martianman View Post
My biggest complaint? Not enough Vanessa Marcil. Goddamn, she's hot.

Its the pigtails scene, isnt it?
Also, I absolutly love Connery's reaction to the cellphone during the chase.
post #9 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Marshall View Post

Sean Connery should have totally retired after this film, he's not fantastic in it but it's a more fitting end than THE AVENGERS or LXG.
.
Then the world would never have known who the man was, Dog.

With that said, it's a fun little flick. Nick Cage before he became ubiquitous. Connery before he slipped into total self parody. All in all, the best Michael Bay film, probably. I don't mean that as a sarcastic slam either. It's not just good by his standards, it's legitimately alot of fun
post #10 of 45
She's one of my few actress obsessions that's lasted more than a few months. I think I actually got to pick her in one of the last babe drafts, which made me happy.
post #11 of 45
I wish I could be sure just why I dislike this film: I love SF travelogue porn, 'splode, crazy Nic, and Connery, so this should be mother's milk.

I think that a large part of it is the tin-eared dialogue: I don't mind characters in action movies sounding generic, but it helps if they sound human, and I don't believe I ever heard a line reading in this film that suggested it came from the brain of an actual person.

And while Bay has certainly made worse films since, at the time it came out, I wasn't ready for his cuisinart editing, which I just found frustrating.

I'd never suggest someone's wrong for loving it, but damned if I can make myself even like it.
post #12 of 45
I would just like to point out that David Morse is in no way evil in this film. Shame on you for besmirching the big lug's name, Spike!

Good film, and it's helped by having Bay's best-ever cast. Fun note #1: The village doctor from HOT FUZZ plays a general in the war-room/tactics discussion scene. Fun fact #2: Ed Harris finds the whole film hilarious.
post #13 of 45
This is Michael Bay at it's best. I love unrestrained Bay, like in BB2, but here he's still not indulging too much, and it makes one of the best action movie of the 90's. Movies like The Rock, Bad Boys 2 and Transformers makes me forget he did Teransformer 2, The Island and Pearl Harbor.

Loved that in this, VX gas not only kills you, but also melts your face.


"You fucked up your Ferrari"
"It's not mine."
post #14 of 45
I also first saw this when I was about 11, think I re-watched it about 30 times over my teenage years. Just a ton of fun. Spot on about the score, OTT in the all the right ways and I can still hum it to myself now. I think Tony Todd's death is one of the best of the 90's

I never fail to giggle at the slow-mo shot of Cage shouting "BOOOMMMMMMBBB" when they are in the tunnels


According to IMDB, "Quentin Tarantino was an uncredited screenwriter on this film, along with Jonathan Hensleigh and Aaron Sorkin." I had no idea.
post #15 of 45
Use to watch the shit out of this movie back in high school with my buddies. One of the first DVDs I ever bought and I had it on VHS before that. I also remember listening to the soundtrack a lot back in the day. This was back when I actually liked Nicolas Cage and Sean Connery could still kick some serious ass!
post #16 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Oysterburger View Post
According to IMDB, "Quentin Tarantino was an uncredited screenwriter on this film, along with Jonathan Hensleigh and Aaron Sorkin." I had no idea.
This would probably explain some of the memorable lines of dialogue like in Crimson Tide.
post #17 of 45
My favorite action movie ever made. This is Bay at his finest.
post #18 of 45
Man, I just watched some parts of it again on YouTube, prepared to giggle at its bombast but shit... it kinda got me. The shower shootout is still awesome as I thought it was when I was 11.
post #19 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Oysterburger View Post
According to IMDB, "Quentin Tarantino was an uncredited screenwriter on this film, along with Jonathan Hensleigh and Aaron Sorkin." I had no idea.
I knew about him doing re-write work on Crimson Tide but not here. The Silver Silver discussion, in particular, from Tide seems like Quentin's work but I'm left curiously wondering what contributions if any were left in the finished product of The Rock. What do we think, kids?
post #20 of 45
If you break it down, it's pretty easy to see which sections are Sorkin's (a lot of the monologues), and I'll bet you one of those is the prom-queen bit. The rhythms are there.

I like Bad Boys II and Con Air better (yes, CA is west but it's a similar aesthetic), but this is a close third.
post #21 of 45
Watched it recently and it still stands up pretty well. My one problem is the hummer chase, which goes on for way too long. In fact that whole escape/capture sequence feels like an unnecessary over-indulgent action beat - a taste of the excess that Michael Bay would eventually become known for.
post #22 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy Jim View Post
I knew about him doing re-write work on Crimson Tide but not here. The Silver Silver discussion, in particular, from Tide seems like Quentin's work but I'm left curiously wondering what contributions if any were left in the finished product of The Rock. What do we think, kids?
I'm willing to bet money the Beatles conversation was his. Also, Goodspeed rambling on about "I'd take pleasure in guttin' you, boy" has rhythm thats slightly out of place with all the other dialogue. Maybe I just want to believe its QTs just because its my favorite comedy bit in the film.
post #23 of 45
Thread Starter 
Cage’s odd delivery of Beatle Maniac and the way he rambles on about Vinyl sounding better always seemed quite QTish to me. I’m guessing the scenes where people are marching around whilst having conversations are largely Sorkin’s.

I don’t see how Con Air really stacks up to The Rock, aside from a similar gloss, especially considering that the film (to my recollection) is remarkably light on action in comparison to The Rock or Bad Boys 2.
post #24 of 45
The Rock is a better constructed movie and a better film all around. I enjoy the cast and ridiculousness of Con Air more.
post #25 of 45
I enjoy the ridiculousness of Con Air as much as the next guy, but even in terms of pure entertainment, it's no match to The Rock.
post #26 of 45
Con Air does, on the other hand, try to make use feel joy at the idea of a convicted serial killer escaping from jail. Definite points for that.
post #27 of 45
The Rock let us know that Oswald didn't act alone (or at all).

Also Angel > Potter.
post #28 of 45
I think I enjoy Con Air more just for the cast and performances, Malkovich is just fantastic and Cage is pretty funny but then The Rock has much better action and less LeAnn Rimes on the soundtrack.

I watched this at the weekend after reading this thread and I realised that Modern Warfare 2 lifts a few scenes right out of this.
post #29 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Marshall View Post
Cage’s odd delivery of Beatle Maniac and the way he rambles on about Vinyl sounding better always seemed quite QTish to me. I’m guessing the scenes where people are marching around whilst having conversations are largely Sorkin’s.
Two scenes stick out to me as classic Sorkin. First there's the scene between Spencer and Hall after Hall suggests springing Connery and Spencer pulls him out of the meeting. It's the conversation that ends with "and HE...is the only chance we've got." It's that same kind of expository diarrhea that Sorkin loves so much. Same thing in the scene where Biehn is explaining the mission to Cage and he gets Nucci to recite the objective for him.
post #30 of 45
Haha, that zoom on Nucci's face.
post #31 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_tyson View Post
My favorite action movie ever made. This is Bay at his finest.
I agree completely, I just wish we had this Michael Bay back. It just seems like it all went down hill after this film.
post #32 of 45
Thread Starter 
I have an odd relationship with the Rock and Bad Boys 2. Objectively speaking I prefer The Rock, but Bad Boys 2 is a movie that draws me in completely every time I see it. To use the internet cliché du jour if The Rock were my wife, Bad Boys 2 would be my really abrasive mistress who happens to be double jointed.
post #33 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luca S. View Post
Haha, that zoom on Nucci's face.
I always want someone to punch the guy as he finishes right when the dolly move is done. That voice... ugh.

Love Tony Todd's handy magic knife. You know how THIS shit workssss!? And Tony Todd's buddy. I wished for horrible things to happen to that obnoxious dude. Cocked, locked, and ready to rock? You don't rush Ed Harris, moron!
post #34 of 45
I still for the life of me do not get why people love Bad Boys 2 so much. I could never bring myself to hate it but it's just not a very good movie. I think the first Bad Boys and The Rock were actually pretty good. I'd say Rock is the highlight of Bay's career.
post #35 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy Jim View Post
I still for the life of me do not get why people love Bad Boys 2 so much. I could never bring myself to hate it but it's just not a very good movie. I think the first Bad Boys and The Rock were actually pretty good. I'd say Rock is the highlight of Bay's career.
Since the sequel's charm is in the infinite "sequel-one-ups-manship" or even general "Bruckheimerizing" of movies, I think if you have any legitimate love for the original Bad Boys, you won't like Bad Boys II. I've only seen Bad Boys once, long ago, and it's probably way better than I remember, but I didn't like it at the time.

I have begun watching the big 90's Bruckheimer action movies for the first time recently, starting with Enemy of the State (which was pretty great). I'm looking to do Crimson Tide and Con Air before The Rock, but it's on deck for some time this week.
post #36 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler Foster View Post
Since the sequel's charm is in the infinite "sequel-one-ups-manship" or even general "Bruckheimerizing" of movies, I think if you have any legitimate love for the original Bad Boys, you won't like Bad Boys II.
I think the reason I didn't enjoy it much kind of goes with your theory. It was in doing sequels that I realized Bay had absolutely no genuine love for his characters at all. It was like he made Bad Bous and never even looked at it again. He had one of his assistants look up the names of the important characters and just shoehorned them into some overlong cop script that ends with them going to Cuba. I think he pretty much assumed that nobody actually genuinely liked or remembered that movie so as long as there was a joke or action-based gag, they could add or change whatever they liked. Based on the numbers, I'd say he guessed right.
post #37 of 45
Tyler Foster, I love...Bad Boys 2, Transformers Revenge Of The Fallen, The Transformers, The Rock, and the original Bad Boys. Bad Boys 2 is Michael Bay's best...R Rated Film, while Transformers Revenge Of The Fallen is his Greatest...PG 13 film. Both are filled with action, and Bad Boys 2 has the best...UNIONized actress working today...Gabrielle!The 2 Michael Bay films I cannot stand are...Armageddon and The Island. Pearl Harbor is ok. The action is great, but the love triangle seemed tacked on. There was no need to have a romance, when your film is based on one of the most horrible attacks in...US History.
post #38 of 45
I'm with you Jim, it might seem silly to complain about the characters in an action flick, but that's what bugged me about Bad Boys 2 as well. They don't act even vaguely like the same people they were in the original.

In fact, I feel like people only enjoy the SCOPE of the film, because even though the action is bigger and louder it's certainly not more exciting.
post #39 of 45
Evi, To each one's own...BUT, I find the action in...Bad Boys 2,...Exhilirating! Whether the Bad Boys are dodging cars of a car carrier, Smashing through tiny houses racing from the bad guys HQ to the border, is just...Awesome! Clearly, Bad Boys 2 is Will Smith's best film, and also one of the rare films that I even like Martin Lawrence. The only thing that would be better than...Bad Boys 2, in this supercop franchise, would be a film shot in...3D, a hard...R rating, with The Bad Boys invading Islamic nations, plus Isreal and Palestine, and then destroying...Iran's Nuclear Plant, Capturing Osama Bin Laden, and causing enough collateral damage in Isreal and Palestine to cause both to sue for peace.
post #40 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evi View Post
I'm with you Jim, it might seem silly to complain about the characters in an action flick, but that's what bugged me about Bad Boys 2 as well. They don't act even vaguely like the same people they were in the original.

In fact, I feel like people only enjoy the SCOPE of the film, because even though the action is bigger and louder it's certainly not more exciting.
Yeah, I have to agree with fleed. A guy tossing cars at the main characters off of a giant tow carrier thing is pretty exciting in my book.
post #41 of 45
I love BBII to death, but my biggest gripe is the sitcom set pieces. Most of which, not surprisingly, are credited to former sitcom writer Jerry Stahl. The movie stops to regard them just as it does one of the action sequences, and it grinds the whole thing to a halt each time. Lawrence and Smith are naturally funny together; they don't need an episode of ROC thrown in to keep the movie light.
post #42 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by duke fleed View Post
Bad Boys 2 is Michael Bay's best...R Rated Film, while Transformers Revenge Of The Fallen is his Greatest...PG 13 film.
GOOD LORD NO! Transformers 2 is one of the most depressing films in recent cinema.

Quote:
Originally Posted by duke fleed View Post
The only thing that would be better than...Bad Boys 2, in this supercop franchise, would be a film shot in...3D, a hard...R rating, with The Bad Boys invading Islamic nations, plus Isreal and Palestine, and then destroying...Iran's Nuclear Plant, Capturing Osama Bin Laden, and causing enough collateral damage in Isreal and Palestine to cause both to sue for peace.
Or they could make them less like the Rush Hour movies.
post #43 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Banks is my hero View Post
I love BBII to death, but my biggest gripe is the sitcom set pieces. Most of which, not surprisingly, are credited to former sitcom writer Jerry Stahl. The movie stops to regard them just as it does one of the action sequences, and it grinds the whole thing to a halt each time. Lawrence and Smith are naturally funny together; they don't need an episode of ROC thrown in to keep the movie light.
Exactly. I've always said that there's a pretty great 110-minute action movie buried in this two and a half hour action-comedy. Get rid of all the comedy bits and now we're talking.
post #44 of 45
There's bits that fail spectacularly, but I couldn't imagine Bad Boys II without Will and Martin terrorizing that poor kid at the door, or "They fuck like us", or the weird relative calm of Johnny Tapia's home life. All part of the flavor.
post #45 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratty View Post
Exactly. I've always said that there's a pretty great 110-minute action movie buried in this two and a half hour action-comedy. Get rid of all the comedy bits and now we're talking.
I think you could trim the movie down by a good 20 minutes without cutting any complete scenes. That said, I always resist the urge to think about it, because on some level, the fact that the movie is a gargantuan, bloated, 147 minutes is part of the Grand Guignol appeal of the whole thing.
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