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Boehner Gets Spanking, Cries About It - Page 3

post #101 of 123
2/25/10 at 9:58am
Thread Starter 
Again, maybe people did give Bush crap his first year in office. But there was a hugely controversial election behind it. Something actually happened to make people mad at him. Nobody was pulling out bizarro claims like the Birthers are. All the ire against Bush was based on concrete actions. Not wild speculation and conspiracy theories like it is with Obama. And I'm sorry, but the fact that so much of the anger towards Obama seems to stem from such wildly unsubstantiated claims really says to me that people are grasping for any way to dislike apart from just coming out and saying it's because he's black.
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post #102 of 123
2/25/10 at 10:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Merriweather View Post
Are people *seriously* making the case that Bush faced this kind of retarded shitstorm in his first year in office?
No. Nobody is. At all.
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post #103 of 123
2/25/10 at 10:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
Again, maybe people did give Bush crap his first year in office. But there was a hugely controversial election behind it. Something actually happened to make people mad at him. Nobody was pulling out bizarro claims like the Birthers are. All the ire against Bush was based on concrete actions. Not wild speculation and conspiracy theories like it is with Obama. And I'm sorry, but the fact that so much of the anger towards Obama seems to stem from such wildly unsubstantiated claims really says to me that people are grasping for any way to dislike apart from just coming out and saying it's because he's black.
That's true and I 100% agree (except for I personally think the whole racism thing isnt as prevalent as some on this forum think as far as why people don't like Obama).

But per my above post, I don't see anyone (Pomp included) arguing this point. This is the way Ive seen the last few posts go:

Various Members: "A lot of people hate Obama for a variety of reasons, most of them stupid. People even hated him before he took office."

Admiral Shark: "Yeah, people didnt hate Bush until 2003."

Pomp: "Actually some of them did because of xyz reasons."

Various Members: "Well of course they did! How could you not? Are you seriously suggesting that we didn't have a right to be mad about that!?!? What the hell is wrong with you?"

Maybe my dear friend Kevin is right and I am retarded, but I dont understand how everyone can agree with Pomp's point but then attack him at the same time by saying that his point is stupid.
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post #104 of 123
2/25/10 at 10:11am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Closer View Post
That's true and I 100% agree (except for I personally think the whole racism thing isnt as prevalent as some on this forum think as far as why people don't like Obama).
I disagree. Nearly every argument against Obama has sought to portray him as the scary outsider, which really feels like code for "OMG he's black!"
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post #105 of 123
2/25/10 at 10:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
I disagree. Nearly every argument against Obama has sought to portray him as the scary outsider, which really feels like code for "OMG he's black!"
Which is fine...I could very well be wrong. I just think that while some people dont like him simply because of the color of his skin, a lot dont like him simply because hes a democrat. Especially recently, it seems as if theyve seem to portray him as a power hungry, pro-large government dictator. It'll be interesting to see what the reaction is if this whole reconciliation business comes to pass (when folks conveniently forget that Bush utilized this process 3(?) different times).
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post #106 of 123
2/25/10 at 11:23am
Since 1980, reconciliation has been used 22 times. 16 of those times were Republican Senates.

ETA: I'm very surprised by this thread. You guys are denying the undercurrent of racism that has burbled to the surface with this President? "Indonesian Muslim Socialist Nazi" says in so many words the one word they can't say, but they're thinking it.
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post #107 of 123
2/25/10 at 11:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by yt View Post
Since 1980, reconciliation has been used 22 times. 16 of those times were Republican Senates.

ETA: I'm very surprised by this thread. You guys are denying the undercurrent of racism that has burbled to the surface with this President? "Indonesian Muslim Socialist Nazi" says in so many words the one word they can't say, but they're thinking it.
I dont think anybody is denying it. I know Im not. All I said was that I dont think that every single criticism of the President has some sort of racist origin, which seems to be the fallback argument these days.
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post #108 of 123
2/25/10 at 11:43am
Wow, everyone's putting words in my mouth.


Closer's right.

And as for the opponents of Bush v. Gore, I really gotta ask... besides the partisan bs espoused here, what's the reason why you think it was wrongly decided? In legal terms, not some you-want-to-have-a-happy-go-lucky-liberal-political-utopia kind of rhetoric either.
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post #109 of 123
2/25/10 at 12:02pm
The Supreme Court stepped in and stopped a perfectly legal recount for no ther reason than "it'll reflect badly on Bush because we already think he's the winner".
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post #110 of 123
2/25/10 at 12:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Merriweather View Post
The Supreme Court stepped in and stopped a perfectly legal recount for no ther reason than "it'll reflect badly on Bush because we already think he's the winner".
You do realize that the Court ruled 7-2 that the recount was unconstitutional because it violated the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment right?


You can't pick and choose what violates Equal Protection and what doesn't.
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post #111 of 123
2/25/10 at 12:26pm
I dunno, the state of Florida seemed pretty unconcerned about equal protection when it came to the striking off of various social groups from the voting register.
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post #112 of 123
2/25/10 at 12:28pm
Thread Starter 
The Equal Protection ruling was based on there being different standards of counting ballots in different Florida districts. This in and of itself didn't stop the recounts, it just stated that the methods of the recounts violated the Equal Protection clause due their not being consistent. What stopped the recounts was the Supreme Court saying that a proper recount couldn't be done by the "safe harbor" deadline, effectively ending the recounts. Gore could have fought the deadline, arguing that such a closely-contested election needed to be brought to a definitive conclusion, but so no good coming from a protracted fight and backed down.

So the Equal Protection clause wasn't what stopped the recount.
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post #113 of 123
2/25/10 at 12:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
The Equal Protection ruling was based on there being different standards of counting ballots in different Florida districts. This in and of itself didn't stop the recounts, it just stated that the methods of the recounts violated the Equal Protection clause due their not being consistent. What stopped the recounts was the Supreme Court saying that a proper recount couldn't be done by the "safe harbor" deadline, effectively ending the recounts. Gore could have fought the deadline, arguing that such a closely-contested election needed to be brought to a definitive conclusion, but so no good coming from a protracted fight and backed down.

So the Equal Protection clause wasn't what stopped the recount.
Yes, that's true. I was just refuting the idea coming from Mr. Merriweather.

I have a refutation for that argument, which is well written, but it'll have to wait. Got a big ethics quiz today.
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post #114 of 123
2/25/10 at 2:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Closer View Post
Maybe I dont read too good, but this is the exact quote Pomp was replying to:



His argument was that a lot of liberals hated Bush prior to 2003-2004.

Was he commenting on the Supreme Court fiasco? No.

Was he questioning the reasoning behind the hatred? No.

Was he suggesting in any way, shape, or form that perhaps the level hatred that occurred following the 2000 election was anywhere close to what Obama and Co are experiencing today? No.

What's also funny (and kind of fucking stupidly retarded, to use your words) is that with all of the responses to Pomp's post...including yours...you're pretty much proving his one and only point; that there was a lot of hatred directed towards Bush prior to 2003.

Could you be any more disingenuous? There's really nothing else I can say I didn't already. He posted a link about people protesting the Court's decision, and I said to compare people objecting to that to the Tea Baggers irrational and racially motivated Obama fears is silly. People were angry at the Supreme Court and the WAY Bush was elected, not the man himself. Why is that so difficult to understand?

The comparison is not valid.
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post #115 of 123
2/25/10 at 2:17pm
If you say so.

IMO if you don't think a good amount of people despised Bush prior to 2003...the man, not the way he was elected...them I don't think you were paying much attention.
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post #116 of 123
2/25/10 at 2:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Closer View Post
This is the way Ive seen the last few posts go:

Various Members: "A lot of people hate Obama for a variety of reasons, most of them stupid. People even hated him before he took office."

Admiral Shark: "Yeah, people didnt hate Bush until 2003."

Pomp: "Actually some of them did because of xyz reasons."

Various Members: "Well of course they did! How could you not? Are you seriously suggesting that we didn't have a right to be mad about that!?!? What the hell is wrong with you?"
Speaking purely for myself, I didn't see the fallout from Bush v. Gore as the level of hatred we're discussing here. But it's undeniable that every president pretty much instantly had people disliking them. Again, though, the Obama hate seems to be on another level, both in terms of pitch and the way it's not really connected to anything in the real world. It's one thing to say, in 2000, "Bush is going to be a warmongering tool of big business!" Correct or not, that statement derives from observations of Bush's personal history and his political party. But calling Obama a socialist Muslim (homosexual who wasn't born in America) is crazy paranoid talk, yet it seems to be driving the debate on the right. This should be crazy fringe stuff, not the main subject of Fox News.
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post #117 of 123
2/25/10 at 2:22pm
Thread Starter 
Texas Rangers fans hated him before 2003.
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post #118 of 123
2/25/10 at 2:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Prankster View Post
Speaking purely for myself, I didn't see the fallout from Bush v. Gore as the level of hatred we're discussing here. But it's undeniable that every president pretty much instantly had people disliking them. Again, though, the Obama hate seems to be on another level, both in terms of pitch and the way it's not really connected to anything in the real world. It's one thing to say, in 2000, "Bush is going to be a warmongering tool of big business!" Correct or not, that statement derives from observations of Bush's personal history and his political party. But calling Obama a socialist Muslim (homosexual who wasn't born in America) is crazy paranoid talk, yet it seems to be driving the debate on the right. This should be crazy fringe stuff, not the main subject of Fox News.
I agree, and Im not going to challenge the notion that from even when he was only a candidate, Obama has had to deal with more tomfoolery than pretty much anyone else in his position. I wasnt looking to split hairs here, but folks jumping all over Pomp and calling him a retard for making a simple (and accurate) point didnt sit well with the ol' Closer. Especially considering he seems like a pretty smart guy and portrays no hint of mongoloid-ism.
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post #119 of 123
2/25/10 at 3:34pm
Apologies for calling you a retard Pomp, as you clearly are an intelligent person. I still think the point you were making is way off base, and that protesting the Court's partisan decision is far different than what Obama is facing, but I shouldn't have said that.

However Snaieke is still a retard.
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post #120 of 123
2/25/10 at 3:51pm
My comment wasn't specifically intended to compare the vitriol and call them equal, but rather to say that Dubya's term did not start Koombaya-like.
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post #121 of 123
2/25/10 at 4:09pm
The Smoking Gun, I think, is that the Supreme Court barred Bush v. Gore from being a precedent. I think it's funny that all the people who are now waving around their Constitutions didn't bat an eye when a Presidential election was decided in a markedly unconstitutional way.
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post #122 of 123
2/25/10 at 4:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by yt View Post
I think it's funny that all the people who are now waving around their Constitutions didn't bat an eye when a Presidential election was decided in a markedly unconstitutional way.
They were too busy holding their "I <3 Diebold Voting Machines!" signs instead.
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post #123 of 123
2/25/10 at 4:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uth Vaspetad View Post
They were too busy holding their "I <3 Diebold Voting Machines!" signs instead.
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