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Ubisoft's new restrictive DRM scheme

post #1 of 44
2/19/10 at 1:38pm
Thread Starter 
http://www.computerandvideogames.com...35290&site=pcg

Quote:
We've just received Assassin's Creed 2 and Settlers VII for review, and verified with Ubisoft that the DRM is the same as the boxed product. If you get disconnected while playing, you're booted out of the game. All your progress since the last checkpoint or savegame is lost, and your only options are to quit to Windows or wait until you're reconnected.

The game first starts the Ubisoft Game Launcher, which checks for updates. If you try to launch the game when you're not online, you hit an error message right away. So I tried a different test: start the game while online, play a little, then unplug my net cable. This is the same as what happens if your net connection drops momentarily, your router is rebooted, or the game loses its connection to Ubisoft's 'Master servers'. The game stopped, and I was dumped back to a menu screen - all my progress since it last autosaved was lost.
This is the stupidest DRM scheme I could ever imaging. Requiring the user to have an always on internet connection and all saves are on their servers?
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post #2 of 44
2/19/10 at 1:41pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Addendum: Some people are inferring that your savegames are only stored online - that's not the case. You can set the Ubisoft Game Launcher not to upload your saves, and even if you permit it, it seems the saves are made locally first and then uploaded when you exit the game. Whichever setting you choose, you still need to be online to launch or play the game.
I spoke too soon about the game saves.
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post #3 of 44
2/19/10 at 1:49pm
With an estimated 10 million games pirated in December-09 alone, you can't blame them from doing what they can to maintain control over their content.

I miss the good old days of copy protection, like the Monkey Island pirate wheel.

Perhaps there's another alternative. Maybe a key-fob (is that the right term?) for every game you purchase that's to be checked before playing. EDIT: While it would be ridiculous to have a drawer full of key-fobs, they do have digital components, like validator app for the iPhone in WoW.

Story from Kotaku
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post #4 of 44
2/19/10 at 1:50pm
So you might as well be streaming the game from Ubisoft's servers.
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post #5 of 44
2/19/10 at 1:52pm
Thread Starter 
Those that are pirating games, how many would buy the games in the first place?

I just think most of this DRM business is silly and you're trying to get people to buy the games that wouldn't buy the games in the first place.
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post #6 of 44
2/19/10 at 1:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by billylove View Post
Those that are pirating games, how many would buy the games in the first place?

I just think most of this DRM business is silly and you're trying to get people to buy the games that wouldn't buy the games in the first place.
So by that thinking, companies should either:

A) Abandon all copy protection and provide free, unlimited downloads of all games, since it will be pirated anyway

B) Say "Screw you, PC Gamers!" and go console exclusive.
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post #7 of 44
2/19/10 at 1:59pm
This is stupid. Steam is as far as I'm willing to go, in regards to DRM. An opinion I share with most other PC gamers I know. And that's mostly because of the myriad ancillary benefits it provides. This is simply inconvenience without any gain for the customer. Blizzard appears to be getting it with Battle.net 2.0, why is it so hard for everyone else?
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post #8 of 44
2/19/10 at 2:00pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cigam Retah View Post
So by that thinking, companies should either:

A) Abandon all copy protection and provide free, unlimited downloads of all games, since it will be pirated anyway

B) Say "Screw you, PC Gamers!" and go console exclusive.
A. I think you misunderstood me. I'm perfectly happy with unobtrusive DRM to keep honest people honest. Schemes like keys for the retail copies, steam for online.

B. It seems that's what they are saying or leaning towards a cloud gaming scheme like Richard mentioned.
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post #9 of 44
2/19/10 at 2:03pm
Ahh, I concur then, doctor.
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post #10 of 44
2/19/10 at 2:03pm
I'm just waiting for the howls of outrage when a server problem on Ubi's side causes people to lose their progress. It's not like an MMO where they can offer you free game time to compensate.
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post #11 of 44
2/19/10 at 2:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cigam Retah View Post
So by that thinking, companies should either:

A) Abandon all copy protection and provide free, unlimited downloads of all games, since it will be pirated anyway

B) Say "Screw you, PC Gamers!" and go console exclusive.
They already said "screw you" and treat customers like pirates.

All DRM schemes are doomed to fail, specially ones that run on open systems (like a PC). If you are going to download gigs of game data and run the risk of getting a virus/trojan in your system, you'll probably be able to find a patch that will defeat the DRM in the first place.

Your option (A) makes zero sense btw. There's already a risk people are undergoing by pirating a game that most people won't take in the first place. Not putting draconian DRM practices is not the equivalent of providing free downloads, please.

I hope this game does very poorly so they learn their lesson.
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post #12 of 44
2/19/10 at 2:15pm
I think the activation/create-an-account-with-us methods are good enough. This seems sort of dumb. Mind you, constant uptime for internet is not the hardest thing to achieve. If you play an MMO, you can play stuff from Ubisoft. I just don't like the penalties associated with going offline.
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post #13 of 44
2/19/10 at 2:17pm
Companies want you to buy their games, that's why Ubisoft is in business. If a game is illegaly downloaded, the beancounters scream 'There's another fifty bucks we lost! Oops, there's another!' but somewhere out there, someone bought the game. Sure, there's the old argument "It's no different than stealing a physical copy from a brick-and-mortar' store.

However, billylove's response that people would not have bought those games anyway is not akin to me walking down the isle of Best Buy and going "Eh, I didn't like the first Assassin's Creed" and keep walking. If I stole that game right there, I can't use the defense "I didn't even really want it! If I did, I'd pay for it!"
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post #14 of 44
2/19/10 at 2:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCapitanAmerica View Post
I hope this game does very poorly so they learn their lesson.
I have a feeling there will be lots of returns.
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post #15 of 44
2/19/10 at 2:21pm
Pretty much what ElCapitan said. If some pirates are people who would buy the game at a lower price, UbiSoft could consider lowering the price to that level. And if the price is too low to be profitable, well then they're not really potential customers, are they?

It's just weird because it seems like these publishers are actually less interested in the bottom line than in just preventing the practice altogether, to the detriment of both paying consumers and themselves. Of all the things for a corporation to cut its own nose off for.

I surely do not advocate pirating, and I completely understand efforts to punish pirates. Sue the shit out of them, like that guy who uploaded New Super Mario Bros. Wii. But DRM like this does not make anyone any money.
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post #16 of 44
2/19/10 at 2:22pm
I am surprised more people aren't talking about the DRM that the PSP is introducing for its latest shooter. You have a special code that allows you to play networked that you have to register with the game maker first.You lose that code, or you try to play without it, you get shut down from online/multiplayer play...

EDIT: to add link to story:

http://consumerist.com/2010/02/sony-...ocom-game.html
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post #17 of 44
2/19/10 at 2:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cigam Retah View Post

However, billylove's response that people would not have bought those games anyway is not akin to me walking down the isle of Best Buy and going "Eh, I didn't like the first Assassin's Creed" and keep walking. If I stole that game right there, I can't use the defense "I didn't even really want it! If I did, I'd pay for it!"
Of course in that scenario you're stealing much more directly from Best Buy, who already paid UbiSoft.
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post #18 of 44
2/19/10 at 2:29pm
@Cigam
Are you a consumer/gamer or a PR flak for Ubisoft?

That's their problem, not mine.

I think there's a certain level of DRM some people will put up with, but it's worthless, that's the part that you don't seem to get. So yes, there is a legitimate argument for not even bothering with it and not treating your customers like they are breaking the law.

It makes no sense to have an always on internet connection to play an offline game, and some could even consider this type of scheme an invasion of privacy in the first place.

I have zero sympathy for Ubisoft doing this idiotic thing.
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post #19 of 44
2/19/10 at 2:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Count Floyd View Post
Of course in that scenario you're stealing much more directly from Best Buy, who already paid UbiSoft.
I agree, but now we're in moral relativity. Is it worse to download a game from a torrent than to borrower it from a friend and apply a no-disk crack?

EDIT responce to Cap: My point is with piracy so rampant, companies will do ridiculous things like this to protect themselves, and it's the good consumers who suffer. I myself have no intention of buying a single-player game for my PC that requires an 'always on' connection. That's flat out stupid. I'm simply saying that the consumer responce to kick and scream at every turn isn't going to stop the bleeding that these companies and their shareholders see as an 'actual' loss.

Or, if you like, we can chose to not have a reasonable conversation about copy-protection and I'll just yell "Yo, fuck UbiSoft" too.
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post #20 of 44
2/19/10 at 2:31pm
Thread Starter 
I can understand people not wanting to pay 50/60 dollars for a game and want to go and pirate so they can play right away. However, people need to learn about restraint and wait for sales.

I'm a budget gamer. It's probably been a year since I've paid full retail price for a game. I've learned to wait for the used copies to start showing up or sales on sites like steam. It's sometimes difficult to hear/read about people playing the latest and greatest game, but I've learned to save money and play the same games for less.
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post #21 of 44
2/19/10 at 2:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cigam Retah View Post
I agree, but now we're in moral relativity. Is it worse to download a game from a torrent than to borrower it from a friend and apply a no-disk crack?
Those are equivalent, they're copyright violations. Stealing from a store is a very different act, but not the same as making a digital copy of something, no matter how the content industry wants to say it's equivalent to stealing from a store. (not justifying it btw, but the industry line on this is wrong)

Quote:
EDIT responce to Cap: My point is with piracy so rampant, companies will do ridiculous things like this to protect themselves, and it's the good consumers who suffer. I myself have no intention of buying a single-player game for my PC that requires an 'always on' connection. That's flat out stupid. I'm simply saying that the consumer responce to kick and scream at every turn isn't going to stop the bleeding that these companies and their shareholders see as an 'actual' loss.
The consumer response to this should be fairly clear, it is, don't buy this crap. That will change behavior pretty fast.
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post #22 of 44
2/20/10 at 7:21am
I would be shocked if the pirates didn't find a way to crack the game despite the DRM. I think eventually the major torrent sites will be blocked or shut down, theres no way all those major corporations are going to let this stand forever.
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post #23 of 44
2/20/10 at 8:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nabster View Post
I would be shocked if the pirates didn't find a way to crack the game despite the DRM. I think eventually the major torrent sites will be blocked or shut down, theres no way all those major corporations are going to let this stand forever.
They're Hydras.
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post #24 of 44
2/27/10 at 7:21am
In sort of related news but still very indicative that restrictive DRM is not the proper answer, Turbine the makers of Dungeons and Dragons Online had an announcement. Ever since they made DDO free to play three things happened. First, their player base reached 1 million. Second, out of this million they have twice as many people choose to pay a monthly fee as before. Third, also counting money spent in the in-game store, their revenue from the game went up 500%. And all this from choosing to give away their game for free.

DDO is an MMO but I believe this case is one more argument in favor of game companies trusting their customers. Fuck pirates. People who pirate their games will NEVER buy them, no matter how good the DRM is. If it is unbeatable no pirate will eventually give up and buy the game. He'll just keep trying to break it. By focusing on these assholes the only thing they're doing is pissing off and alienating their paying customers. Trust your game, respect your customers and just ignore pirates.
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post #25 of 44
3/6/10 at 4:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nabster View Post
I would be shocked if the pirates didn't find a way to crack the game despite the DRM. I think eventually the major torrent sites will be blocked or shut down, theres no way all those major corporations are going to let this stand forever.
Ubisoft’s New DRM Cracked in Under 24-Hours

http://www.infoaddict.com/ubisofts-n...under-25-hours

Ubisoft says the pirated versions in the wild are incomplete somehow. Unsure how that will play out. As has been stated before, this DRM will only encourage pirating by legit users who wish to avoid the hassles.
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post #26 of 44
3/6/10 at 12:00pm
Hilarious. Simply put, purchasing the game gives you an inferior version of the game (with DRM that seems like a bug not a feature) when compared to the pirated version.
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post #27 of 44
3/6/10 at 12:37pm
From what I've heard, you can't save playing the cracked version. But give 'em a while.
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post #28 of 44
3/6/10 at 12:39pm
I wonder when publishers are going to throw up their hands and just abandon PC gaming altogether?
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post #29 of 44
3/8/10 at 3:49am
The hits keep coming!

"Assassin’s Creed 2 unplayable as Ubisoft DRM servers go down

PC gamers who decided to take the gamble and purchase Assassin’s Creed 2 on PC, despite the always connected requirement, have been left with an unplayable game... <snip>

... Based on the timestamps of the seven-page forum thread, access has not been possible for the last twelve hours and counting."

More here:
http://www.geek.com/articles/games/a...-down-2010037/
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post #30 of 44
3/8/10 at 5:20am
Seriously, who didn't see this coming? If you play on a PC and have bought AC2 you deserve your fate.

Bad Company 2 did it so much better. I finished installing it and a dialog window came up: "How do you want the game to be authenticated? Online or with a CD check?" Being a lazy bastard I chose online but it was nice having an option. It's nice being treated like a grown up.
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post #31 of 44
3/9/10 at 2:19am
Seriously, who didn't see this coming? If you play on a PC and have bought AC2 you deserve your fate.

I bought AC2 on PC completely unaware of Ubisoft's new DRM scheme. I don't think it's unfair to say that I shouldn't be punished because I inadvertently supported it.

I'll let you guys know how it pans out when the game unlocks in 13 hours, assuming I can play it at all.
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post #32 of 44
3/18/10 at 8:34am
Thread Starter 
http://kotaku.com/5496169/splinter-c...-of-a-building

Splinter Cell's PC Specs Don't Need To Be Written On The Side Of A Building

Quote:
Note: A permanent high speed internet connection and creation of a Ubisoft account are required to play this video game at all times and to unlock exclusive content. Such content may only be unlocked one single time with a unique key. You must be at least 13 to create a Ubisoft account.
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post #33 of 44
3/18/10 at 8:41am
The DRM continues and there isn't going to be even a demo? Ever? Thinking about how excited I was last autumn for playing both AC2 and Conviction and how I now want Ubisoft to just drop PC games altogether if they insist on treating us this way, is funny. In a sad way.
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post #34 of 44
3/18/10 at 8:55am
Thread Starter 
I was going to probably get this for PC since I don't have a 360 and I'm not sure this will end up on PS3. But, I'll be thinking twice about buying it because I won't support this silly DRM.
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post #35 of 44
3/18/10 at 8:57am
Ubisoft games I own:

Assassins Creed 1
Brothers in Arms (all)
Far Cry
Far Cry 2
Prince of Persia
Prince of Persia 2
various splinter cell and rainbow 6 games (like.. I think all of them.. but there are a lot and I may have missed some of the spinter cell ones.. but definitly all of the rainbow 6 games, love them)
World in Conflict (both copies)
*some PS3\xbox games, but they don't count*

The only ones that will hurt me to abandon is the World in Conflict franchise and the Rainbow 6 franchise but I'm more then willing to abandon buying their games (including the console games) as a form of protest. I don't know what information is being sent to their servers. It could just be saved game content or it could be a list of all my programs.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure I can find out what they're sending through ip packet sniffer software but I'm not going to buy a game and figure out what is being sent just for the fun of it.
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post #36 of 44
3/18/10 at 9:01am
Thread Starter 
Yeah, you could easily run wireshark. But digging into packets is not my idea of recreational fun.
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post #37 of 44
3/18/10 at 11:14am
Ubisoft for me existed only because of Rainbow 6, Ghost Recon and Splinter Cell. Rainbow 6 and GR are now so unrecognizable from the ones I loved that losing them doesn't mean anything to me. Splinter Cell is a more difficult loss but there is no way I'm giving them any money.

And as for fucking cracking a game I paid for and performing all sorts of voodoo for it to work, thanks but no thanks.
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post #38 of 44
3/18/10 at 11:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelios View Post
Ubisoft for me existed only because of Rainbow 6, Ghost Recon and Splinter Cell. Rainbow 6 and GR are now so unrecognizable from the ones I loved that losing them doesn't mean anything to me. Splinter Cell is a more difficult loss but there is no way I'm giving them any money.

And as for fucking cracking a game I paid for and performing all sorts of voodoo for it to work, thanks but no thanks.
You see, back in the day.. I would simply say make a ton of save games and overload their free space forcing them to rethink their strategy but a fucking terabyte hard drive is only $69 now. You could build a 67 TB storage server for just under $8000, which is nothing.

I think the bottom line is, we're obsolete... conform and buy console* games only. At least the PS3 accepts a keyboard and mouse (bluetooth) then there's just a matter of figuring out how to configure them to work with the games.

* I do own a PS3, Xbox360 and Wii but I love my PC games damnit. I love wasd, ctrl, space bar and the mouse!
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post #39 of 44
3/19/10 at 1:58pm
Looks like EA has joined in on the fun.

Quote:
Much like Ubisoft's newest games, when C&C4 is released tomorrow it will only work while you're connected to EA's servers. We've done some extensive cable-yanking experiments to see how the game reacts if you're disconnected from them during play, and the results are... bad.

After creating an account, assigning your serial number to it and logging into the game, you still need to be online to start a single player game: if not, you're logged out and unable to play.
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post #40 of 44
3/19/10 at 2:12pm
I wonder if a class action lawsuit is in order once they take these servers offline and nobody can play these games.
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post #41 of 44
3/19/10 at 2:17pm
Thread Starter 
ffs
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post #42 of 44
3/19/10 at 3:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCapitanAmerica View Post
I wonder if a class action lawsuit is in order once they take these servers offline and nobody can play these games.
That's the question being asked on the C&C boards. There were a couple of games that had only been out for a year which had their servers shut down, and they're worried they won't be able to play C&C4 a year from now.

And apparently EA's version is even worse than Ubisoft's. The game doesn't try to reconnect once you restore the internet connection, so you could lose a whole bunch of progress without realizing it. Some are also saying you can't even reconnect without completely exiting the game and restarting.

A mod on the C&C boards wrote a lengthy post detailing this policy, mentioning that you need to be connected to the internet and calling that "no DRM". The post has since been edited to remove the "no DRM" part.
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post #43 of 44
3/25/10 at 5:04pm
Thread Starter 
Ubi, is trying to make nice nice.
http://kotaku.com/5502062/ubi-apolog...ith-free-games

Quote:
Ubisoft apologizes to Assassin's Creed 2 purchasers who found themselves unable to play due to attacks on the verification servers, offering free game downloads in exchange for their forgiveness.
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post #44 of 44
4/9/10 at 8:26pm
Ubisoft: always-connected DRM will improve and be on all future PC games

Partial list of upcoming PC titles that should be affected:
Quote:
# Splinter Cell Conviction
# Pure Football
# R.U.S.E.
# I Am Alive
# TrackMania 2
# Prince of Persia: Forgotten Sands
# Ghost Recon Future Soldier
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