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Discovery. Joy. Repitition.

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 
Or, Songs I Can't Stop Playing Along To.

Fellow instrument-wielding Chewers, I propose a sister thread to the Guitarist Depository, wherein the art of learning songs is discussed. The satisfaction of mastering an old favourite is a precious feeling that deserves to be shared, as is the pleasant sense of surprise that can come from picking up a new release mid-listen.

Does the song then become a play along favourite for relaxation purposes or a cover at band practices? Does it make you think about something you're working on differently? Perhaps, open a door or two?

Caveat: this isn't about showing off. We all play at different levels, but the fact that we play at all - regardless of instrument - is what matters.

I'll start.

Last week, I learned the guitar parts for several songs from Hüsker Dü's Warehouse: Song and Stories. As much as I've enjoyed playing "Ice Cold Ice", "Standing In The Rain", and "She's a Woman (And Now He Is a Man)" though, I've probably played "Could You Be The One?" more than all of them combined over the last few days. I'm more of a rhythm player so the blend of uptempo chord progressions and neat riffs Bob Mould often employed directly appeals to me (it's the way I often approach songwriting.) I was also particularly delighted to pick up the solo, as lead parts aren't a strength of mine.
post #2 of 23
Last month I couldn't pick up a guitar without playing through "Cape Cod Kwassa Kwassa" AT LEAST once, which I think was starting to drive everyone around me nuts. Your description of the process is spot on - even with such a simple song there's a lot of satisfaction when you figure it out yourself, which already makes you want to keep playing it, and in this case it's such a fun infectious song that I just COULD. NOT. STOP.
post #3 of 23
Thread Starter 
Thanks, Dan! I can well believe it with that track. I should also mention "Returning To The Fold", "Now We Can See", and "How We Fade" by the Thermals. I've played all of those (and more from them) copious times over the last few months.
post #4 of 23
For the last few weeks I've been trying to tweak my Line 6 Pod settings to mimic the sound of the Red Special, and now I can't stop playing Killer Queen. Such a great, simple solo.
post #5 of 23
Lately I can't sit down at the piano without playing the outro to Layla at least once.
post #6 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matches_Malone View Post
For the last few weeks I've been trying to tweak my Line 6 Pod settings to mimic the sound of the Red Special, and now I can't stop playing Killer Queen. Such a great, simple solo.
Nice. Queen is awesome to learn or just jam along with, although I don't think I have the finesse to get it quite right. A week or two ago I was working out "The Hero" from the FLASH GORDON soundtrack, especially trying to get the solo. It's quite simple on paper but May wrenches a lot of nuance out of his leads, and although his awesome tone helps, it's all in his hands and how he plays. I could get the basic notes but kept missing my mark with the bends and vibrato, not terribly but just enough that it was off sounding.

That's why I can never agree with people who scoff at the idea of "feel" in music. Yes, you can come close to replicating something note for note but it's never QUITE the same because there's some intangible element that comes out of how each individual physically interacts with the instrument that is impossible for another person to reproduce exactly.
post #7 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Benenson View Post
That's why I can never agree with people who scoff at the idea of "feel" in music. Yes, you can come close to replicating something note for note but it's never QUITE the same because there's some intangible element that comes out of how each individual physically interacts with the instrument that is impossible for another person to reproduce exactly.
Definitely. What kind of idiot scoffs at feel?

From a drummer's perspective - I can't practice along with recorded music anymore (drums and apartment living don't mix), but when I was learning to play in junior high and high school, it was seldom about learning drum fills note for note. You play to the feel of the song, get the tempo down, get a sense of where fills go...

You can always pick out the guys who are uptight about learning to play stuff like that (and I still occasionally meet guitarists like that - drummers far less frequently, because these kind of drummers don't keep playing into adulthood) - they can't keep up when you take the headphones off and put them in a room with other people. It's one of the reasons I'm a skeptic when it comes to the "if you play Rock Band on difficult, it's just like playing the drums" line of thought. I predict there's going to be a generation of horrible drummers who can hit where they're supposed to hit, but without any rhythm or originality.
post #8 of 23
Oh, just some tech metal and prog snobs, guitar shred dudes, that sort of thing. It's not necessarily scoffing at any emotion in music, although I may have come across one or two of those types too. It's more specifically a negative reaction to that idea of the intangible aspect I mentioned. Thinking if you're good enough a musician and practice whatever it is enough you can play it pretty much exactly like whoever.

But I love the idea that every performance is a unique combination of person, instrument, environment, etc. that creates some special mojo that can't fully be replicated, even if you can transcribe the notes to a page and play them using the same techniques and whatnot.
post #9 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveB View Post
Definitely. What kind of idiot scoffs at feel?
A question I've asked myself time after time, often in guitar shops, whilst surrounded by exactly this breed of moron.

Far too often, I've encountered guitar players who openly condescend to anyone that doesn't share their "theory theory theory, play it as it's transcribed" views. They tend to think, in my experience, that everyone unlike them dismisses meticulousness and theoretical considerations out of hand. I've had my fair share of times playing with these often technically "superior" players who were either totally useless or disruptively bamboozled when taken off the sheet. Although this led to some very awkward auditions and rehearsals, it did teach me the valuable lesson that such self-professed "guitar/whatever geeks" are usually best handled with caution. They also tend to be insufferably smug, incapable of basic communication, and unable or/unwilling to write their own parts.
post #10 of 23
It seems so contrary to the very concept of rock music. Spontaneity and originality are key, not perfectionism (or at least not perfectionism on someone else's terms). I'm not arguing for garage-rock levels of looseness or anything, but even the most precise rock music has some room for you to put a personal stamp on it.

And arguing for going off the transcription when it comes to rock music? Hilarious. As if Hendrix personally and painstakingly transcribed his solos so that tech geeks could try to mimic him 40 years later.
post #11 of 23
I tend to learn the riffs and the changes, and then "feel" the rest. Knowing the Suzie Q riff and the chord changes are important for playing the song out, but playing every note of Fogerty's solos would seem silly and counterproductive to me, unless I was just trying to hone some skills and do some woodshedding. We do a few covers in my group, but most time we do it, we try to go out of our way to make the song recognizable but different. Some songs we don't bother, but for the most part, we try to change things up, because, really, if you're playing someone else's song just like the original artist in front of an audience, why bother? They can just pop in a cd. But, learning a solo or a riff for your own, just for the sake of being able to do it, or to figure out new licks or riffs from it, that makes sense.
post #12 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveB View Post
It's one of the reasons I'm a skeptic when it comes to the "if you play Rock Band on difficult, it's just like playing the drums" line of thought. I predict there's going to be a generation of horrible drummers who can hit where they're supposed to hit, but without any rhythm or originality.
This is absolutely true. I consider myself rather good at drums in Rock Band (I can beat quite a few of the Who tracks on expert without much trouble) but once the fill sections come up my brain stops. It's either a really long snare roll or a quick run over the set.* There are plenty examples of this on YouTube as well. There's one particular horrific video where a group is playing one of the Tool songs in GH: World Tour and the drummer attempts a solo during a really long open section. It is a nightmare.

*And back in school I played in the jazz band and had no problem with improvising solos on my sax. I have no idea what happened in the intervening years.
post #13 of 23
I used to learn guitar mainly by playing along with records, band's like Allman Brother's Live at Fillmore, Cream's Wheels on Fire live disc, tracks like Whipping Post, In Memory of Elizabeth Reed, Crossroads, Spoonful etc, they were just great pieces to jam to.
post #14 of 23
I'm probably more of a beginner than most of you. I've only been playing for a couple of years, and while I've toyed around with electric, I've been using an acoustic guitar mostly. Classic rock songs seem to be easiest to learn (Dylan, Van Morisson, etc). I remember a particularly disastrous practice when I tried to use the acoustic chords I was used to play an electric guitar. It didn't work. Any tips in navigating the switch from acoustic to electric?
post #15 of 23
Less arm, more wrist, watch your finger pressure on the fret board. A lot of people are using to beating the hell out of their acoustic, and then doing the same on a cranked electric, which sounds great when Jonny Rotten is singing next to you , but not as great by yourself. Also, Electrics are a lot more sensitive to being out of tune. The finger pressure thing is a factor in that also, remember, electric strings are more forgiving, make sure you're only pushing them down, not down and around. Lastly, think of tone. An acoustic has it's tone built in for you, on an electric you have to play with the settings on your guitar and amp to make it sound right.
post #16 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveB View Post
. I predict there's going to be a generation of horrible drummers who can hit where they're supposed to hit, but without any rhythm or originality.
Maybe... but learning any musical instrument begins with a certain amount of rote, whether it's doing your scales or following the notes scrolling up your TV screen. Sooner or later, anyone who wants to play an instrument has to move past that, and I'm not sure that video games are necessarily any more inhibiting to the process of eventually discovering one's musical "feel" than any other jumping-off point.

And in an interesting bit of serendipity, I am finally going to have the opportunity to compare my fumbling attempts to emulate one of the greatest guitarists who ever lived, with the "authorized versions" of his music, as three volumes of this are to be published later this year:

post #17 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Miller View Post
I tend to learn the riffs and the changes, and then "feel" the rest. Knowing the Suzie Q riff and the chord changes are important for playing the song out, but playing every note of Fogerty's solos would seem silly and counterproductive to me, unless I was just trying to hone some skills and do some woodshedding.
Heh. When I was in my first band, Creedence was the bible, with The Stones and The Who as important supplementary texts, and at one time I could have almost played most of Fogerty's solos note for note (I was never good enough to come up with interesting ones on my own).

When I went back to playing last year (after a couple decades away), the first song I taught myself was "The Old Man Down The Road."
post #18 of 23
The Cult. I was heavily into them when I was first starting to learn the guitar, and I still find myself going back to many of those songs when I just want to refresh my muscle-memory on something familiar. I still get a bit of a thrill when I play 'She Sells Sanctuary' (an exceptionally EASY song to play).
post #19 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeb View Post
Maybe... but learning any musical instrument begins with a certain amount of rote, whether it's doing your scales or following the notes scrolling up your TV screen. Sooner or later, anyone who wants to play an instrument has to move past that, and I'm not sure that video games are necessarily any more inhibiting to the process of eventually discovering one's musical "feel" than any other jumping-off point.
I definitely agree with the "some rote is better than nothing" part. I've never understood either extreme; everyone to fall into either camp is unnecessarily hindering themselves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeb
And in an interesting bit of serendipity, I am finally going to have the opportunity to compare my fumbling attempts to emulate one of the greatest guitarists who ever lived, with the "authorized versions" of his music....
That's pure class. Congratulations!

Be forewarned, though: you may receive the odd P.M. request for a particularly tricky tab or two in future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas Booth View Post
The Cult. I was heavily into them when I was first starting to learn the guitar, and I still find myself going back to many of those songs when I just want to refresh my muscle-memory on something familiar. I still get a bit of a thrill when I play 'She Sells Sanctuary' (an exceptionally EASY song to play).
I recently gave the Misfits' Static Age and Walk Among some spins. It was great fun hearing so many songs ("Hybrid Moments", "Night of the Living Dead", "We Are 138", "Teenagers From Mars"...) that were amongst the first I ever learned on bass, before taking up guitar, too. It brought back a lot of fun memories of playing many of them in my first band and I was pleasantly surprised that I still remembered them. "Last Caress", in particular, remains an eminently playable track. Those earlier albums are fantastic for showing a fledgling rock bassist/guitarist some fundamentals done really well.
post #20 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Miller View Post
Less arm, more wrist, watch your finger pressure on the fret board. A lot of people are using to beating the hell out of their acoustic, and then doing the same on a cranked electric, which sounds great when Jonny Rotten is singing next to you , but not as great by yourself. Also, Electrics are a lot more sensitive to being out of tune. The finger pressure thing is a factor in that also, remember, electric strings are more forgiving, make sure you're only pushing them down, not down and around. Lastly, think of tone. An acoustic has it's tone built in for you, on an electric you have to play with the settings on your guitar and amp to make it sound right.
Thanks!
post #21 of 23
Thread Starter 
I've been having great fun over the last few days mucking around tabbing bits and pieces from Quarantine The Past, the new Pavement Best Of ("Date w/IKEA", especially.) It's the first time in a while when the guitar-to-bass tab ratio has been pretty even, too.
post #22 of 23
Thread Starter 
Been (bass) tabbing and playing along to "When We Two Parted" by the Afghan Whigs lately, as part of my Gentlemen listening marathon. It's so good.
post #23 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas Booth View Post
The Cult. I was heavily into them when I was first starting to learn the guitar, and I still find myself going back to many of those songs when I just want to refresh my muscle-memory on something familiar. I still get a bit of a thrill when I play 'She Sells Sanctuary' (an exceptionally EASY song to play).
My old band used to do this as our closer when we played in bars. We'd all switch instruments because it's so damn easy to play. It always impressed non-musicians who, let's face it, is exactly who we were trying to impress.

I used to have to start rehearsals with Subdivisions which pissed off our drummer because he wanted something that allowed him to ease in to rehearsal.

Last time I played (damn, was that two new year's eves ago?) we started with Wang Dang Doodle. I kept screwing up and playing outside the pocket (a serious no-no in the blues). The drummer and keyboard player were pissed. We eventually got there when I stopped wanting to be Steve Harris and started trying to be Willie Dixon.
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