By Crom, civilization is much older than we thought...

The fun thing about first dates is that they always seem to get pushed back. PBS has a thing on the first civilization in South America, and it is pretty good, it seem religion was the spark of civilization, and not war. War is a byproduct of civilization.

How could this be? The earth is only 5000 years old!

Christians tends to forget that Crom assfuck both God and Jesus on a daily basis.

Those godless heathens are so evil, (How evil are they?) They're building things before the earth was created!

I read that while listening to Basil Pouledoris' Conan the Barbarian (track "Atlantean Sword"). Try it.

What's really interesting is another recent discovery: that the unique capacity for abstract reasoning in the human brain is most likely a byproduct of an evolutionary response to the environmental conditions that necessitated walking two-footed.

The first "modern" humans likely evolved from a very small group of primates on the African coast--along a ridge of cliffs that were too narrow to traverse four-footed and where food was very scarce. In order to cope with the treacherous terrain, humans had to evolve to walk two-footed, which required a vast increase in the size of the cerebellum (balancing is much harder on two feet--as modern attempts at bipedal robots indicate), the part of the brain responsible for balance and motor coordination.

So the entire skull grew to accommodate a larger cerebellum and this also allowed for an expanded cerebral cortex, which came with the added advantage of allowing for increased abstract thinking, which in turn facilitated the earliest attempts at modern tools and shelter.

If this is true, if man's first house was a house of worship... wow. We're such a frightened bunch, aren't we?

Too bad you didn't descend from these guys. Maybe you wouldn't have compared The Assassination of Jesse James to Terrence Mallick.

greenbox greenbox greenbox greenbox

"Who's laughing now, eh?" said Roland Emmerich when questioned on this subject.

It could've been a whorehouse.

Goes with out saying, fear seem to be our greatest motivator.

In many early cultures a house of worship and a whorehouse were the same thing.

If the first structure ever built was a mega-whorehouse then we are truly the masters of the universe.

Thanks for that link, Eyeball. I needed a little awe-inspiring today.

While this is awesome and truely awe-inspiring, aren't we getting a little carried away with the announcement that this must be 'where civilization began'?

Isn't the fact that we've only just discovered this and have to completely rewrite what we thought were the beginnings of what we think of as civilization proof positive that we simply don't know how old civilization is or where it began exactly?

Otherwise isn't archaeology simply making another hubristic claim that will have to be amended yet again when the next discovery is made of the temple that's even older than this one?

Archaeology doesn't make hubristic claims, but some archaeologists do, and this Schmidt may turn out to be another Schliemann. But you're right, and that's why the article mentions that this stuff isn't in textbooks yet. It's just too new, and this information is bound to be amended or expanded upon.

I do like that Schmidt plans to leave some of the areas unexcavated to await more refined recovery techniques in the future. This will also allow for the work to be properly vetted by the archaeological community at large.

Oh don't get me wrong, I think this is pretty fantastic, mind-blowing news personally, but then I've always had a sneaking suspicion that what we consider to be organised society is a lot older than evidence to date (well, up until this new find anyway) would suggest.

RD you're trying to ruin my erection but you can't. 11500 years old? Fucking awesome, be it the birthplace of civilization or not.

Especially since 'birthplace of civilization' seems too facile. It makes it sound like progress isn't a long process but rather like someone just said 'Hey, wouldn't it be cool if we lived in houses, instead of caves?'

Honestly Stel, I completely agree with you, I'm so jazzed I printed out the article and read it again on the way home from work today. It's awesome stuff.

I just take issue with the hubris of claiming now THIS is year dots birthplace without conceding the possibility there's further and even older evidence to uncover.

There should be no absolutes in archaelogy.

But this find itself? Wow. Seriously fucking wow.

Paleoclimatology puts a maximum: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_Glacial_Maximum ETA: the article alluded to this.

Video

Another discovery unearthed by this thread: Policar is boring on every subject known to man.

Any Dagon statuettes found amongst the detritus?

Need moar pics.

This discovery would explain the unusual sunspot activity from that time:

That's funny, I was thinking the same thing. If they find a statue in the temple that looks like Edward James Olmos......

Damn you, CAPRICA viral marketing!

I spent about an hour or two having a discussion with a bunch of archaeologists, history lecturers and anthropologists yesterday. I’m studying History at the moment and as such this is one of the most exciting things to happen in a long while.

Everyone within the History community is absolutely abuzz about this because it could really change perceptions of pre-Neolithic society. Essentially this temple suggest that Mesolithic society was far more advanced than we knew about and suggests that at some point between 11,000 BCE and 9500BCE there must have been some regression in technology to allow for the Neolithic revolution. The detail of carving on the stone, and the DESIGN involved, suggests that whoever built the temple was socially and culturally separated from the rest of the world.

By the time we get to the Neolithic period most art is abstract, pattern based, whereas that image on the stone is a representative piece of art. That’s the sort of thing that wouldn’t make a resurgence until the Sumerian/Egyptian culture. Essentially this temple could be where those advanced cultures shot off from.

This does make me wonder if religious groups will use this as an argument for more religious involvement in society. "Civilization developed from religion, how can you keep it separate from the state?"

To which we sane folk reply "Yep, 9,000 years before the birth of Christ. So maybe we should quit all this Christianity lark before we piss the Pagan overlords off!"

Touchè.

I love this kind of news. Utterly fascinating, thanks for that link Eyeball.

I really hope they don't find any crystal skulls down there because I just cannot stomach a world where Lucas becomes a wise sage.

I want them to find a largish skeleton on a throne holding a rather large sword.

Seriously asking. How could that city be isolated in that region?


I would bet someone already made the Atlantis connection.

I bet someone made the alien connection first. Where's that crazy guy that's always on the History Channel spouting his "aliens did it" nonsense?

Well the last glacial retraction was around 9,000 BCE so in terms of topography it’s hard to assess just what the world looked like exactly. The amount of changes to the world, in terms of tidal and climate change, even since 2000 years ago is staggering.

I mean the last glacial retreat is what severed Britain from mainland Europe. It could have been that 12,000 years ago that temple was an island or on top of a mountain or behind mountain ranges.

Yes. I don't know the topography over there but it seems plausible. Echo on the offshoot idea.

By the way I'm in no way an expert on this (my specialisation is social change and revolutionary politics in 18th and 19th Century Europe) so a lot of the stuff I'm saying is conjecture based on limited overarching knowledge.

Very cool story. I love that history keeps throwing things at us that turn our perceptions on their head.

It more earth shacking then this. If civilization was around at least 11,500 years ago, then chances are most of it are not under water. Also it could then be a lot older then even 11500 years. This is probably the biggest find in archeology, if it is true.

Im amazed everyone had the self respect to abstain from making an AVP joke here.

I'm assuming he's been replaced by ice road truckers and pawn shop stars.

I thought AVP was enough joke in and of itself that it really didn't need to be repeated.

At least, not in polite company. So it should fit in here just fine.

I say they either find a Stargate or a collar that fits nicely on a polar bear. or maybe a Coke bottle...

I figured if anything, they're going to take the approach that scientists can't make up their mind about anything. So basically the same retards that smugly ask you to explain how a rock can evolve into man.

It was understandable, 11 000 years ago. Now we have the ability to really understand why it rains or why something appears to eat the sun every now and then or why days get longer and shorter so there's no excuse for inventing magical reasons for why things happen. But 11 000 years ago is fine.

Im amazed Princess Kate hasnt come here to claim it was a dinosaur stable.

God damn it ryoken - someone already spun around three times and mentioned her name and she came in and retarded up the very enjoyable killer whale thread. You shut your god damn mouth sir.

Everybody get ready for the eventual Discovery Channel month long 4 part CGI Story of the Turkish Temple What if...? special.

Also,
WTF is up with that woman she wants to eat dolphins daaaammmnn?!?!