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Shamu is hungry, "Splash Section" given whole new meaning - Page 2

post #51 of 267
2/25/10 at 12:39pm
One of the local news stations showed video, but it stops, presumably before the attack happened.

I've never seen the Dine with Shamu show, but I've been in the underwater viewing area, and it's pretty large and usually pretty crowded with people. Somebody definitely has pics or video of at least part of the incident.
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post #52 of 267
2/25/10 at 12:45pm
I've somehow neglected to see Orca myself, but this thread has shown me the urgency of correcting that. I'm going to tentatively demand a sequel/reboot where the Orca actually has time travel technology, as clearly implied by this poster.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Benenson View Post
Motherfucker will track you ACROSS TIME. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead.
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post #53 of 267
2/25/10 at 1:00pm
Across space!
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post #54 of 267
2/25/10 at 1:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reasor View Post
Motherfucker will track you ACROSS TIME. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead.
Terminator: Rise of the Baleens

It stars Narwhal Schwarzenegger.
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post #55 of 267
2/25/10 at 1:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
One of the local news stations showed video, but it stops, presumably before the attack happened.

I've never seen the Dine with Shamu show, but I've been in the underwater viewing area, and it's pretty large and usually pretty crowded with people. Somebody definitely has pics or video of at least part of the incident.
My family and I have been to the Dine with Shamu show, and you definitely have a good view to shoot pics and video. There's definitely someone out there with it. I know I shot some video while we were there.

Between this incident, watching The Cove, and subsequently striking up conversations with marine biologists on a different forum, I've come down firmly in the "marine mammals are not for show" camp. I don't think the shows are going anywhere anytime soon, and I honestly don't begrudge anyone making a living working for a fun place like SeaWorld. I fucking *loved* SeaWorld the two times we visited, but I can't look at the business itself the same way anymore. I'm sure all of the people working there love the animals and are more conscientious about the ocean than your average human...but I really hope that they change what they do with orcas, dolphins, sea lions etc.

ETA: Mattioli, you're not even in the right *suborder*. It's more like:

Delphinidae Hard: With a Vengeance
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post #56 of 267
2/25/10 at 1:06pm
The dolphins and sea lions at Sea World have much bigger (proportionately) and more natural habitats than the killer whales do, at least in the Orlando park. Those areas at least look like natural environments, with rocks and shorelines and varying water depth, and the animals are able to interact comfortably in groups. The killer whales are just kept in big tanks with no scenery or landscape and limited interactivity. There simply isn't enough space to build them a habitat large enough to accommodate them.

There are people clammoring for this particular whale to be released back into the wild. You would think what happened to Keiko would make them know better.
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post #57 of 267
2/25/10 at 1:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff M View Post
ETA: Mattioli, you're not even in the right *suborder*. It's more like:

Delphinidae Hard: With a Vengeance
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post #58 of 267
2/25/10 at 1:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
The dolphins and sea lions at Sea World have much bigger (proportionately) and more natural habitats than the killer whales do, at least in the Orlando park. Those areas at least look like natural environments, with rocks and shorelines and varying water depth, and the animals are able to interact comfortably in groups. The killer whales are just kept in big tanks with no scenery or landscape and limited interactivity. There simply isn't enough space to build them a habitat large enough to accommodate them.

There are people clammoring for this particular whale to be released back into the wild. You would think what happened to Keiko would make them know better.
Releasing animals that have been in captivity for a huge part of their lives isn't a good answer, I know. And I'm not trying to be reasonable in what to expect. What I hope for is at least some changes for the better in the places that already exist, and at least a downturn in new places/shows.

Dolphins and orcas in the wild are used to swimming many, many miles in a day, and there simply isn't a tank big enough to accommodate their natural behavior. And what I object to these days is that putting on the shows increases the public's interest in more and more shows from smaller and smaller venues around the world. I have no doubt that SeaWorld does everything in its power to take care of their animals, but it spawns places that don't. And you said yourself that the orca habitats there aren't big enough.

So where is the line drawn? I don't think they should get a pass because they have a *pretty good* habitat for the dolphins and sea lions, but cramp their orcas. And the only justification for keeping them in the first place is revenue. I know they are involved with a number of conservation programs, etc. but I don't think that's enough.

ETA: Dickson, I'm spouting more of a tirade than actually responding to your post...my apologies.
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post #59 of 267
2/25/10 at 1:29pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
The dolphins and sea lions at Sea World have much bigger (proportionately) and more natural habitats than the killer whales do, at least in the Orlando park. Those areas at least look like natural environments, with rocks and shorelines and varying water depth, and the animals are able to interact comfortably in groups. The killer whales are just kept in big tanks with no scenery or landscape and limited interactivity. There simply isn't enough space to build them a habitat large enough to accommodate them.

There are people clammoring for this particular whale to be released back into the wild. You would think what happened to Keiko would make them know better.
These two points seem to lead to a stalemate. "We can't build them a large enough environment, and we can't put them back in the wild." So, joking aside, what should be done with "Tilly?" They can't just keep him in the back and throw fish at him a half-dozen times a day, they can't set him free, and throwing him a comeback special would be truely tasteless.

"Come see Tilly's Big New Splash Show!"

Knowing the slack-jaws that frequent the theme parks of the City Beautiful (God what a stupid nickname), they would love to walk up to a viewing area and say "Psst, that's the one that killed the trainer," in the same way they say "That's the monorail that boy died on last year" or "Someone fell out of this ride." While this may seem like a PR disaster, I wouldn't be surprized if morbid curiosity ends up helping attendance in the long run.
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post #60 of 267
2/25/10 at 1:33pm
This story reminds me of a childhood visit to Bristol Zoo. They used to have 2 polar bears, one died and the other one went mad out of boredom.
I have this vivid memory of the bear walking around in a circle in a ditch painted blue with a puddle of water. Even as a small child I knew this was wrong.

Thankfully they have improved facilities a huge amount since then but I can understand why people hate seeing animals in captivity.
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post #61 of 267
2/25/10 at 1:58pm
Too much Orca: The Killer Whale talk, not enough Jaws 3D references. Come on guys, this happened at SeaWorld Orlando! The mother is INSIDE the park!!
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post #62 of 267
2/25/10 at 2:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff M View Post
ETA: Dickson, I'm spouting more of a tirade than actually responding to your post...my apologies.
No worries, my point was more that the smaller animals actually have pretty great habitats and don't seem to be inhibited or suffering, and that such habitats for the orcas are impractical due to their sheer size. Short of turning the big lagoon in the center of the park into a killer whale habitat, there's not much SeaWorld can do to change things.
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post #63 of 267
2/25/10 at 2:05pm
Whales might be the least of Seaworld's worries...
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post #64 of 267
2/25/10 at 2:13pm
Well, I propose Seaworld throws an orca barbecue with good old Tikikilumakakka or whatever it's called. Show them assholes who's boss. Make them realize that it's by our grace and sardines that they still live.
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post #65 of 267
2/25/10 at 2:14pm
Thread Starter 
That's the old joke about Sea World isn't it? Don't perform up to snuff and you'll end up battered and deep fried?
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post #66 of 267
2/25/10 at 3:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cigam Retah View Post
These two points seem to lead to a stalemate. "We can't build them a large enough environment, and we can't put them back in the wild." So, joking aside, what should be done with "Tilly?" They can't just keep him in the back and throw fish at him a half-dozen times a day, they can't set him free, and throwing him a comeback special would be truely tasteless.

"Come see Tilly's Big New Splash Show!"

Knowing the slack-jaws that frequent the theme parks of the City Beautiful (God what a stupid nickname), they would love to walk up to a viewing area and say "Psst, that's the one that killed the trainer," in the same way they say "That's the monorail that boy died on last year" or "Someone fell out of this ride." While this may seem like a PR disaster, I wouldn't be surprized if morbid curiosity ends up helping attendance in the long run.
There's the rub, man. My whale-hugger side says let him go, but my rational human being side knows what happened to Keiko in a similar situation. I just want to see less and less crass exploitation of them, and have people go to zoos and aquariums that focus on rehabilitating animals and conservation rather than Disney-fied shows.

Good luck with that, I know. Because the cynic in me thinks that you're right about the morbid curiosity increasing attendance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
No worries, my point was more that the smaller animals actually have pretty great habitats and don't seem to be inhibited or suffering, and that such habitats for the orcas are impractical due to their sheer size. Short of turning the big lagoon in the center of the park into a killer whale habitat, there's not much SeaWorld can do to change things.
Nothing short of changing their entire mode of operation...which would be preferable to me, but that's too pat an answer. It would be nice if the industry never got started in the first place, but I'd like to see it change, however slowly. I don't have a solution, other than personally not going to shows any more.
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post #67 of 267
2/25/10 at 3:14pm
This thread is calling out for "Akbar and Jeff's Sea Village."
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post #68 of 267
2/25/10 at 3:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trav McGee View Post
This thread is calling out for "Akbar and Jeff's Sea Village."
I'll fulfill my role where the "elite meet", but I don't know if anyone will volunteer to be my Akbar.
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post #69 of 267
2/25/10 at 3:43pm
Thread Starter 
The least they can do is stop trying to breed them in captivity.
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post #70 of 267
2/25/10 at 3:43pm
A SeaWorld spokesman said definitively that the whale will not be put down. Although he is a little bummed out.
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post #71 of 267
2/25/10 at 3:48pm
At the very least, Tilly doesn't need any more trainers trying to be his chum.
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post #72 of 267
2/25/10 at 4:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
A SeaWorld spokesman said definitively that the whale will not be put down. Although he is a little bummed out.
The spokesman or the orca? Probably both...
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post #73 of 267
2/25/10 at 4:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cigam Retah View Post
The least they can do is stop trying to breed them in captivity.
Yeah, but then they have to go out and "harvest" them...which brings up unwanted images from The Cove (different animal, I know) to my mind...which makes me want to throw up. That flick gave me the screaming heebie-jeebies mixed with a generous measure of impotent rage.
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post #74 of 267
2/25/10 at 4:18pm
Thread Starter 
Well, these are surprisingly long lived creatures. Perhaps they should try to 'phase out' the use of bred/captured orcas, and rely on the ones they have. Even if they 'rescue' an injured one, one that can't make it in the wild on its own, that would be more palatable than trying to "find the biggest one in the world and make it splash the crowd."
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post #75 of 267
2/25/10 at 4:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cigam Retah View Post
The least they can do is stop trying to bread them in captivity.
Is what I thought you wrote. I need lunch.
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post #76 of 267
2/25/10 at 4:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rain Dog View Post
I watched a documentary a few weeks ago outlining the accidental discovery of an entire pod of orca slowly and methodically trying to drown and kill a Blue Whale calf that was being protected by it's gigantic mother. A tour group stumbled onto the scene - something that scientists up until then had only ever specualted about but never been able to document - and were there for hours as the pod adults trained their younger members on how to headbut, break up into smaller co-ordinated groups so they could come at the mother and baby in shifts so keep the momentum at a maximum at all times. After about an hour most of the people on the tour group had put their cameras away, children were in tears and the ocean was filled with blood. The attack went on for a number of hours tho - it was relentless.

We're talking about creatures with the intelligence of dolphins, and the ruthlessness of wolves.

It's kinda why I've never seen what point it serves to keep them locked up and make them do tricks.
Son of a bitch, that's awful.
Reminds me of a doc I saw where a mother Orca caught a seal after camping some breeding grounds and drug it out to deeper waters, only to fucking play with it by flipping it about with her young until the poor thing finally died. Orcas are the assholes of the animal kingdom.
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post #77 of 267
2/25/10 at 4:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Bean View Post
Son of a bitch, that's awful.
Reminds me of a doc I saw where a mother Orca caught a seal after camping some breeding grounds and drug it out to deeper waters, only to fucking play with it by flipping it about with her young until the poor thing finally died. Orcas are the assholes of the animal kingdom.
*exceptional* assholes...but yes. My son has more than one book that talks about their propensity to play with their food.

So they're extremely intelligent, one of the largest predators in the world, and *intentionally* play with their live food. Makes you wonder why the hell anyone would get in a tank with them! Other than that they're really cute and interesting. Maybe the trainers are the equivalent of those women who marry death row inmates.

For more scary-smart orca hunting behavior, check out this unlucky seal:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3xmqbNsRSk

ETA: And also...Jaws? Pussy.

http://channel.nationalgeographic.co...ideos/07503_00
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post #78 of 267
2/25/10 at 5:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff M View Post
*exceptional* assholes...but yes. My son has more than one book that talks about their propensity to play with their food.

So they're extremely intelligent, one of the largest predators in the world, and *intentionally* play with their live food. Makes you wonder why the hell anyone would get in a tank with them! Other than that they're really cute and interesting. Maybe the trainers are the equivalent of those women who marry death row inmates.

For more scary-smart orca hunting behavior, check out this unlucky seal:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3xmqbNsRSk

ETA: And also...Jaws? Pussy.

http://channel.nationalgeographic.co...ideos/07503_00
...so, I suppose domestic cats would TOTALLY freak you out.
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post #79 of 267
2/25/10 at 5:57pm
I remember once when I was about 17 or so, a group of us were out surfing, and this huge, black dorsal fin just popped up out of the water about 5 metres away from me and just ambled around. It was surreal. I'm looking at it in wonder, saying "Hey, wow! A killer whale!" but the entire time my mind is going "SHARK! SHARK! SHARK!". So I turn and yell out to Adam and John, "Hey guys! Check out the ("SHARK! SHARK! SHARK!") killer whale!". As I look across at them, another 8-10 fins just start randomly popping up around us.

It was an absolutely amazing moment.

And then we realised we were sitting on surfboards and probably look a shitload like a seal from underneath . . .
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post #80 of 267
2/25/10 at 6:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham View Post
...so, I suppose domestic cats would TOTALLY freak you out.
In exactly the same way, yes. Less so since the lolcat phenomenon...I mean how dangerous can a cat on an invisible bicycle be?
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post #81 of 267
2/25/10 at 8:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratty View Post
Same here, and that's probably why the movie kind of fails. It stacks the deck so heavily against the human characters that instead of being Jaws Redux, it works more as a Death Wish movie for orcas.
Are you kidding??? That's what made the film seventeen shades of fuckin awesome! Fuck Richard Harris and Bo Derek - hooray for the wronged Papa Orca! I reckon that film helped shape my pro-animal rights politics a helluva lot more than the soppy leftie kids films of the era like The Golden Seal ever did.

...and on the serious notion of what to do with killer whales in water parks, is it really that outragous a notion to just stop breeding and capturing anymore of them? Just let the ones that exist now die of old age and draw a line under the whole business - they don't belong there.

We're talking about some of the smartest animals on earth (they're not assholes - they're incredible) - keeping them in tanks is like keeping a bull elephant in a 20 foot cage - it's not just wrong, it's fucking torture.
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post #82 of 267
2/25/10 at 9:29pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8GaDuCvYbE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cduLsyXaxTc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1glHHH6w5h0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3xmqbNsRSk&feature=fvst

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpXKrF08eyE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWsN6...eature=related

let go swimming!
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post #83 of 267
2/25/10 at 10:41pm
Did somebody menton Jaws 3?


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_476254.html
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post #84 of 267
2/25/10 at 11:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anakin's Dad View Post
At the very least, Tilly doesn't need any more trainers trying to be his chum.
Hey-O!
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post #85 of 267
2/25/10 at 11:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Bean View Post
Son of a bitch, that's awful.
Reminds me of a doc I saw where a mother Orca caught a seal after camping some breeding grounds and drug it out to deeper waters, only to fucking play with it by flipping it about with her young until the poor thing finally died. Orcas are the assholes of the animal kingdom.
This just in - Nature is NOT all warm and cuddly.
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post #86 of 267
2/25/10 at 11:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff M View Post
Score for the mammals!
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post #87 of 267
2/25/10 at 11:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chavez View Post
Score for the mammals!
That whale is now known to hunt the whites for their livers. One of the videos I posted has her killing another shark for it liver.
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post #88 of 267
2/26/10 at 4:41am
Isn't it nice how the smarter an animal is the more likely it is to be a raging asshole?

Makes me feel all warm inside.
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post #89 of 267
2/26/10 at 8:17am
We should probably just let Princess Kate kill it and eat it. That way we could spare an innocent dolphin in the future when her bloodlust for cetacean meat finally gets the better of her.
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post #90 of 267
2/26/10 at 11:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rain Dog View Post
We're talking about some of the smartest animals on earth (they're not assholes - they're incredible) - keeping them in tanks is like keeping a bull elephant in a 20 foot cage - it's not just wrong, it's fucking torture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelios View Post
Isn't it nice how the smarter an animal is the more likely it is to be a raging asshole?

Makes me feel all warm inside.
Rain Dog, I think you're wrongly assigning a purely negative meaning to the label of asshole in this instance. Assholery makes them more interesting than the caricature they're portrayed as in the shows. Dogs are great, but they'd be more interesting if you didn't know if they were going to hump your leg or tear it off because they were in a bad mood.

They'd be terrible *pets*, but a hell of a lot more interesting.
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post #91 of 267
2/26/10 at 11:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
From what I've heard, this wasn't during the big stadium show, but a smaller private show that's available at an extra cost.
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post #92 of 267
2/26/10 at 12:40pm
"We went to Seaworld, Orlando, you know? And we thought it would be fun, you know, to go to a show. Everybody says you gotta check out one of these shows. And... it's a killer whale mauling a trainer. We get there and we think it's gonna be awesome and... it is not as cool as it sounds like it's gonna be. It's kinda gross. You think "A killer whale mauling a trainer" and you get there and... it's a killer whale mauling a trainer. It was really giving it to her. And you know what? To be honest I just felt bad for her, we all just felt bad for her. I kinda felt bad for the whale!"
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post #93 of 267
2/26/10 at 1:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham View Post
...so, I suppose domestic cats would TOTALLY freak you out.
if they were 30 feet long and 8 tons, yeah.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Merriweather View Post
We should probably just let Princess Kate kill it and eat it. That way we could spare an innocent dolphin in the future when her bloodlust for cetacean meat finally gets the better of her.
My sig approves.
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post #94 of 267
2/26/10 at 1:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelios View Post
Isn't it nice how the smarter an animal is the more likely it is to be a raging asshole?

Makes me feel all warm inside.
We're at the top of the list, to be sure. But those Orcas are sneaking up. Lord knows what they'd do with thumbs.
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post #95 of 267
2/26/10 at 1:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Bean View Post
We're at the top of the list, to be sure. But those Orcas are sneaking up. Lord knows what they'd do with thumbs.
Eat them?
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post #96 of 267
2/26/10 at 1:30pm
They'd make really fucking big guns.
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post #97 of 267
2/26/10 at 1:35pm
Too late.

"That's it for us monkeys."
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post #98 of 267
2/26/10 at 6:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Merriweather View Post
We should probably just let Princess Kate kill it and eat it. That way we could spare an innocent dolphin in the future when her bloodlust for cetacean meat finally gets the better of her.
While I'm not the worlds biggest fan of dolphins, I'm a big supporter of Whales. Telecom has my support on this one.


I've always been a bit suspicious of places like SEAWORLD. Why do you need to try and turn an aquarium into an amusement park? The whole enterprise seems, to my untrained eyes, more circus than sanctuary. Also, hello? Keeping giant whales in enclosed spaces? How is that ok? You hunt and kidnap a super intelligent marine mammal (who enjoys traveling thousands of miles across open ocean in the wild), maroon him in Florida of all places, and then act surprised when he attempts to break out of Whale Jail? Plllleeeease... I watched the press conference today, and for the most part I was slack jawed at the level of stupidity on display. "What went wrong?" "We're going to look into our policies and procedures" "Should there have been a hair length policy?"

It's truly laughable, the idea that something must have gone wrong in order for a five ton super mammal to flip out and kill someone. As if people and whales were chilling out together just fine in the wild before this, lol. I know what went wrong: You kept a giant animal in a swimming pool and forced it to do tricks for your paycheck.

I'm with Ricky Gervais on this. Mess around with wild animals, I really am not going to shed a tear if you get eaten/killed/maimed. Should have left well enough alone.

If she had been a scientist studying them maybe I'd feel differently. But no, she was a "trainer" trying to "train" a giant sea beast to do "tricks" for money.
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post #99 of 267
2/26/10 at 6:48pm
Thread Starter 
Killer Whales, or Orcas, are the largest species in the Dolphin family, Kate. Eat away.
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post #100 of 267
2/26/10 at 6:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cigam Retah View Post
Killer Whales, or Orcas, are the largest species in the Dolphin family, Kate. Eat away.
Are they not officially whales? Like how a Koala is not really a bear?

Even if that's true, I'm pretty sure that would not change my position on this one

1) I remember going to see Free Willy 1+2 with my mom and that film holds a special place in heart. Drawing Orcas was even a specialty of mine at one point in elementary school

2) I'm pretty sure that Orcas do not engage in the abominable behaviors that have made Dolphins infamous in the under the sea kingdom*.


Plus, they should not have kidnapped Telecom and forced him into the sea-circus. So yeah, still on his (her? it's?) side for now


*Scorpions too. I was unusual like that.
*In 11th grade biology we learned about the animal kingdoms. Unfortunately all I remember from that class is that a friend and I made endless jokes about the "under the sea kingdom". I no longer remember if there really is such a thing or if that came from the joke. Perhaps a biology major can provide some insight
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