McCarthy's Son Likely Not Autistic - Page 2

Not what the rumours say, baby-lover.

I take issues with these two posts in general because the information from this one doctor's research was not the beginning of autism/vaccination connections. These connections have been around since Jenny McCarthy was a baby and are multiple in probability. Between aluminum, mercury, combination shots and general brain inflammation there are multiple fronts upon which this connection can be laid. This was one flawed study.

I have seen, in the past, calls for comparative studies done on vaccinated and non-vaccinated populations to determine the rate of autism. If the non-vaccinated population shows a statistically similar rate of autism then perhaps all this could be laid to rest. Why does legislation requesting NIH do studies like this routinely get torpedoed?

Chris, Louris, and anyone else out there really dealing with autism, keep up the good work. I got caught up in my own situation as it relates to the debate, and it pales in comparison to those of you looking at the issue from the standpoint of how to treat your kids, and how to sort through the research.

I'm with Ryan and Louris philosophically, but I can see where you're coming from Chris. Terry Pratchett once said, in regards to treating his Alzheimer's, ‘I'd gnaw the arse out of a dead mole if I thought it would do any good.' There wouldn't be enough mole-ass on the planet for me to gnaw through if it were my child instead of me. So I can completely respect where you're coming from even though I think you're in error on the vaccinations. At the very least, you're making the decision with your eyes open, and are willing to admit that you could be wrong. McCarthy lost me when she started evangelizing on the subject.

I'm putting all of this out here as second-hand information I've gleaned from conversations with my wife, so don't count me as an expert. But from what I understand, the criteria for determining autism has changed over the past thirty years as well. Since it's a broad-spectrum disorder, and the criteria have been refined, it's also entirely possible that the increase in general numbers is due to more people getting diagnosed properly...not an increase in occurrence in general.

And use of thimerosol (the mercury containing compound that I think is at the heart of the debate) used as a preservative has decreased in the past few decades to the point where most of the vaccinations recommended from children under six either don't have it, or have never had it. The link below isn't up to the minute, but gives you a good idea:

http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVac...m096228.htm#t1

So if you tell me that you don't want to give your kids one of the three DTaP vaccines that contain thimerosol, or avoid the flu shot...that's one thing. But if you're fighting things like the MMR or the Polio vaccine, you don't have much of a leg to stand on as I understand it.

I'd love to see the matter laid to rest with a comprehensive study, but there are a couple of problems. First, it's difficult to ethically set up a group of kids who will not receive vaccines as group A when current research says that the danger to your kids to not be vaccinated outweighs the possibility of increased rates of autism. Second, even if it were conclusively disproven in a perfect study, some folks wouldn't believe it.

ETA: I didn't read your link before banging this out, and as a result, pointed some things out that you had already covered. It's a complex issue that needs more study, but at the heart of it, vaccines appear to prevent more problems than they cause.

This is one of the biggest arguments my wife and I ever got into. My daughter when she turned 3 would "zone out". Stare off into space, etc followed by random bursts of crying or anger. She had an excellent vocabulary but would rarely talk during these times.

Then one day she say a report on ABC about autism, and all of the sudden, our child MUST be autistic. Which I fought tooth and nail, It is the only time I have EVER thought less of my wife, whom I put on a pedastal most of the time. So I recinded, let her take our daughter to the doctor, who immediately agreed that it could be autism, and we should get her "tested" for such. After her pediatrician looking at her ONE TIME, he thought she was autistic.

After much fighting, she agreed that since she took her, I should let her go to another specialist to get a second opinion.

What they found out was that she wasn't autistic, but having micro seizures. She was epileptic. Once they started her on a medication regime, she has no more zone out times, her speech has imporoved dramatically, etc.

Not to diminish the many many people diagnosed with Autism, but how many people are wrongfully diagnosed because some soccer mom or has been actor thinks thier child not paying attention makes them autistic.

I ate my Flutie Flakes, I read all the information, and I wholehartedly sympathize with those who raise autistic children, but some people need to get a grip.

Oh, and for those of you who say you would still "do" Jenny McCarthy, go read the book "Belly Laughs". She is damaged goods.

TzuDohNim: Pro-Jenny McCarthy's crackpot theories, anti-poor people getting access to healthcare.

As far as misdiagnoses go, elphantasmo is right. I didn't want to hear our son could be autistic, it scared the hell out of me. But after the pediatrician brought it up, we got him tested by our county system as well as Kennedy Kreiger. County said it was PDD, and Kennedy Krieger said autism, but they contain the same symptoms for him anyway. It took a lot for me to understand that a diagnosis is just a way to frame reality, not shape it.

Take issue with it all you want. There is near zero scientific evidence to back it up.

"“My science is Evan. He's at home."

Bullshit. Case studies are evidence that lead to funded studies. A child that is normal that receives a vaccine, has a marked reaction to said vaccine then immediately begins a mental regression is a case study that warrants further investigation.

Sorry, should have added "unless I've been drinking and watching Spongebob" to the end of that.

Citation required.

Until then, all you are saying is “My science is Evan. He's at home."

Actually there is NO EVIDENCE that vaccines correlate to autism.

NONE.

Show me anything beyond the most basic speculation, any evidence at all.

Aluminum, mercury, lead and other chemicals can cause nerve/brain damage in certain circumstance, so it is logical to investigate whether they play a role in any neurologic disorder. However no one has EVER found that vaccines (with or without thimerosal) play a role in autism.

One of the initial reasons vaccinations were thought to correlate to autism was because the disorder often is first noted at age 2-3 years old, shortly after vaccinations. However, a good study reviewing tapes of first birthday parties showed that doctors could accurately determine which children were autistic at one year of age - long before they were diagnosed AND before they got the MMR (first dose at 12-15 months).

So there is a good study showing that babies at 12 months (pre-MMR) had autism prior to their diagnosis. That's a good "vaccinated vs. non-vaccinated" study given the subjects were viewed before and after vaccination.

Speaking as someone with a diagnosis of Asperger's, Jenny McCarthy is an enormous asshole. First of all, for perpetuating the "vaccines cause autism" bullshit, and second for stigmatizing autism as a disease. Make no mistake, autism is genetic. Those that will tell you otherwise are full of shit. And, uh, the crusade against vaccines has had serious public health ramifications. Children have fucking died because their parents bought into this insane conspiracy theory and didn't vaccinate their children. If I believed in hell, which I don't, I'd be certain there's a special place in hell for people like McCarthy.

What there is evidence of, however, is that not getting your kid vaccinated -does- cause problems.

http://www.eurosurveillance.org/View...rticleId=18919

" Fourteen years after the local transmission of measles was halted in the United Kingdom (UK), the disease has once again become endemic, according to the Health Protection Agency (HPA), the public health body of England and Wales. In an update on measles cases in its weekly bulletin last week, the agency stated that, as a result of almost a decade of low mumps-measles-rubella (MMR) vaccination coverage across the UK, ‘the number of children susceptible to measles is now sufficient to support the continuous spread of measles’ "

Considering prior to these first birthday party videos those children had received an average of 19 doses of various other vaccines the fact they were already autistic doesn't surprise me at all. Taking into further consideration that Pertussis toxin is implicated more often than the combination aspect of MMR or Thimerasol content really shoots your home video watching in the foot even more. Three doses of DPT or DTaP are given.

Look up Death, Pain and Trouble shot. The DPT has the longest correlation to autism because of the high amount of fever and brain inflammation associated with pertussis reactions. This severe brain inflammation is a possible link to SIDS as well as neurological damage.

That is so moronic it's not funny, I just feel sorry for her.

NASCAR has also see a huge rise in popularity over the last 30 years... Might it also cause autism?

It's just basic common sense that just because something that happened while something else was also happening, it does not mean that one happened because of the other

Post hoc ergo propter hoc. Not necessarily words to live by, Ms McCarthy

The real kicker is that the rise in Autism is due to the fact that people actually know what is is now and are willing to diagnose it. Until the late 1980s it was still something of a 'maverick' diagnosis. So the 'shocking rise' of autism over the past thirty years is due to recognition rather than an actual rise.

Citation required.

Until then, all you are saying is “My science is Evan. He's at home."

Listen, I know full well that some people do have autism. But I'm entirely skeptical about the whole 'Autism Spectrum' thing. I think the explosion in those kinds of diagnosis is entirely unjustified

Or it could be that Autism and Aspergers are still fairly new mental health issues and the 'explosion' in diagnoses might be more to do with diagnosing people who previously weren't classifiable than faddishness.

I mean Asperger's was only created as a diagnosis in the mid 40s and accepted as a medical diagnosis in the 1970s. Just because something has exponential growth doesn't mean that it's a fad, it just means that the remits of the diagnosis may have been extended too far OR the diagnosis is recognising symptoms that that were misdiagnosed earlier.

Also in regards to Autism there's ACTUAL NEUROLOGICAL EVIDENCE of Brain's working in and interpreting information in different ways.

Yes because my use in my post of the words "correlation" and "possible links to" suggest that I am saying autism is caused by vaccines. I believe my posts, while admittedly leaning towards the aforementioned conclusion, repeatedly say that there are multiple avenues of causality and flat out saying vaccines do not cause autism is just as wrong as saying they do.

Government Concedes Vaccine-Autism Case in Federal Court - Now What?

The Vaccine-Autism Court Document Every American Should Read
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And I'm glad you apparently haven't read any of my posts since you seem to think I am anti-vaccine.

Two opinion pieces written by a guy who made his name claiming autism is caused by vaccinations from a blog website is the best you can do to back up your claim that there is scientific proof of a connection?

Jesus.

If your goal was to provide some kind of proof to back up your words, you've failed. If it was to make me embarrassed for you, you've succeeded.

Hang on, isn't TzuDoNihm the guy convinced that taxes are an institutionalised form of theft by the government? People around here still listen to this bloke?