Wall Street

I feel bad for Ken's thread, so I'll just say I love the scene in the elevator with the two Sheens. I also think if you like Stamp in this, you should check out this small indie movie called August with Adam Scott and Josh Hartnett. David Bowie has an excellent scene in it that makes the film. Good picture.

I do think it has some awkward moments (Sheen on the rooftop) but there's still a lot of greatness there. Douglas continues to be under rated to my eyes. I don't think I've seen a movie star so ready to embrace his inner sleaze. Even though he looks so old in the Wall Street 2 trailer you can see that Gecko spark there still. That's what I'm looking forward to the most, is just seeing Douglas bring it again.

Watched this as preparation for seeing the sequel. I stand by my statements in the past that Charlie Sheen is really pretty bad- I know some people look at it as saying he should seem outclassed by Douglas, but that doesn't wash- and if anything, it's the scenes with Martin Sheen where his limitations are most apparent.

Aside from that complaint, it's a good movie. There's a style and confidence to the direction, and although it's really hitting at pretty easy and obvious targets, it does so in an entertaining way. McGinley brings life to a minor character, Douglas is a true movie star, and Sheen brings the gravitas needed for the Bluestar stuff to work. Entertaining.

Heh the film may be hitting at "easy targets" but upon release and ever since legions of college graduate have joined Investment Banks because they want to be Gordon Geko.

I really love this film and disagree that Young Charles Sheen is a weak link. Bud is a callow, unsophisticated ManBoy really. He's hungry for what he thinks is success, and doesn't have the life experience to see Geko for what he is. Sheen embodies that role perfectly: thinks he's Teh Shit when he's being played.

One point that is made on the Behind the Scenes filmete and Commentary on the DVD: I think Daryl Hannah does a really good job as Darian.

McKinley and Stamp are great as is Hal Holbrook, who I believe is a stand in for Oliver Stone's father, who worked on Wall Street.

Another little commented on item: the Soundtrack. Stone really did well with a mix of David Byrne/Brian Eno music (from "My Life in a Bush of Ghosts" as well as some Talking Heads tunes) and the "regular' score works quite well too. Can't wait for the new movie.

Yeah, the first point brings to mind a lot of the reactions to Fight Club- there will always be people who just don't get shit.

I just think Sheen lacks range and depth- which is why he is so good for something like Hot Shots- he has a blankness that helps him play it straight.

I saw this a few months back because I was interested in WS2. Wasn't particularly blown away. Saw WS2 (almost satisfying, but the ending is bullshit), and then picked up WS as a DVDTalk review title.

I think the reason I don't like the movie is because Stone revels in Bud's failure. Something about the way it's shot and written gives Bud no hope from square one, rendering even his little attack on Gordon kind of pathetic. The fact that Bud eventually has to wear a wire to nail Gekko is not about Gordon tripping up, or even Gordon being oblivious. Bud digs his own grave and by that time he's just scrambling to get out.

It's not that the movie shouldn't be dark, or that Bud shouldn't learn a hard lesson, but it's like the movie starts with a very "look at this sucker" attitude and never stops; it's two hours of disdain for its supposed protagonist.

Saw this again the other night because I wanted to prepare for the sequel.

It's an engaging film. But I didn't remember it being so conventional. Maybe because I got used to Stone pushing buttons.

Also... Charlie Sheen lacks any real fire as the protagonist and makes it kind of difficult for you to connect with him. Tom Cruise was a possible choice and I think he would have been better.

But maybe we would have missed out on Martin Sheen giving a terrific performance as his dad. The early scene in the diner and the scene in the elevator are real highlights. And I disagree that Sheen is at his worst with his dad. The opposite, those are his best scenes too.

The weak link in the chain has always been Daryl Hannah. She's categorically awful and all her scenes nearly sink the film. The romantic subplot is a complete failure because of this. It's probably that soap opera element that keeps this from being a truly great film. Because it's handling of economic politics is riveting.

I see what Tyler is saying. But I think that doom for the protagonist was something Stone was carrying over from his 70s sensibility in storytelling. But there is a sense of pride and triumph in Sheen's walk up the courthouse steps. It's a great ending button for the film.

What deflates the climax is that we don't get to enjoy Gekko's comeuppance. And for a film that is basically so conventional, it seems odd that this scene isn't there and we're left to simply assume it.

I think it's not even that it's doom for the protagonist, but that Stone seems to take pleasure in watching Bud walk to his doom. Bud's complete obliviousness to what is classy and how to act cool is basically a joke. Gordon Gekko's a cool character and a great antagonist, but the movie takes time to paint Bud as this nice guy just trying to scrape by, with plenty of determination and whatnot, and then the movie spends the rest of its runtime making him look like a fool.

The younger Sheen is all over the map in this film; it seems he feeds off what everyone else in a particular scene is doing, so when he's paired with his dad or Douglas, he's pretty good. The scene where he and Daryl Hannah have it out is probably one of the worst acted scenes in any Stone film, and it's not just Hannah who is floundering there.

See i think that's Bud Fox. He has no center so he's like milk: anyone with a strong personality who's close to him begins to affect him.


Re: Darryl Hannah

I too used to hate Hannah's performance and wished Sean Young had played that character. But I've come to think she really plays that character quite well, its' just that the character sucks. She is a vapid, empty, greedy, amoral creep. Gekko knows this and uses her for sex. Bud Fox sees her as a Status Symbol, just like his fancy apartment. The fact that she is such an energy suck actually fits well with the themes of the movie. Bud Fox is attracted to this woman.

For the fight with Daryl Hannah, Stone told Sheen to go out and party all night, get no sleep, and come to the set completly burned out. Said Sheen "no problem boss!". (this is in the Retrospective short on the DVD). So you are seeing a very natural performance, up to and including Sheen throwing a vase like it's a baseball. If there is a problem with that scene, it's with Stone's clunky dialogue, but again, Bud Fox is a young guy who's constructed a nice little bubble around himself, and that bubble has just burst.

But not a blind fool. The movie is showing us what the results of the 80's naked Greed was on individuals (Bud) and communities (the Blue Star employees, Gekko's family, Bud's girlfriend, and James Spader).

Also, don't forget that however clueless Bud Fox is when it comes to Gekko, he participates in his own demise. It's his idea to buy a Cleaning service then steal information from investment banks around town, for example.

And plus, it's made clear that Fox worships Gekko as a hero long before he meets him. So of course he's going to be scammed by him.