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2010 Boston Red Sox Discussion

post #1 of 285
3/10/10 at 4:27pm
Thread Starter 
So we're deep in the middle of pre-season so far and it's been a good start, more or less. Jon Lester is currently battling the Rays. More important than any of that, big news conference today: Nomar Garciaparra signs a one day contract with the Sox and then promptly retires. Man, I love that guy. He cast such a wide shadow since trading him in the middle of the magical 04 season that we haven't gotten a permanent, reliable shortstop since then. Maybe I'm hero worshipping, but man he was awesome. Nomar's Press Conference

2010 is looking to be a good year for those who like close nailbiters in their baseball games what with the loss of Lowell and Bay, both good hitters, but we've shored up third with Beltre and outfield with Cameron defensively.

Big shakeups in the line up include V-Mart as full time catcher, with Tek stepping into a more advisory role. This should translate into a more complete line up that, while not hitting for power, might be able to hit a little more.

Will Scutaro be the one to finally give us a reliable shortstop? Will Papi repeat the ridiculous funk he (and we) endured at the beginning of last season? Will Tim Wakefield break the most wins record for a Red Sox? All these and so many more will be answered. And of course...the Yankees loom large and are favorites to repeat this year. It's still the pre-season, but with the Olympics over, it's time to start thinking baseball!
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post #2 of 285
3/10/10 at 11:44pm
I'm so excited to see the new Sox. I've bought into the defense & pitching route, and regardless, the Sox will field a highly competitive team.

It's been fun watching these spring training games, and seeing all of the prospects (especially Casey Kelly and Jose Iglesias). Opening day can't get here fast enough, and of course, they open against the MFY. At least it'll be at Fenway.
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post #3 of 285
3/11/10 at 2:23am
Really worried about hitting. Bay and Lowell were two of the big clutch guys. Especially Bay, he always seemed to be giving it his all. I kinda wish they had ponied up and paid him, but ah well. I still believe or whatever.
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post #4 of 285
3/19/10 at 5:19pm
I'm with Parker on Bay. Big loss. My brother-in-law seems to regard Bay's loss as not too big a deal, but damn can he hit. That's undeniable. He's a hoss.

But Beltre has me excited so far, and Scutaro definitely has a shot at being an incredible short stop. He's already blending in well with the team-- particularly Pedroia-- which I consider a good sign.

Baseball!
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post #5 of 285
4/4/10 at 10:12pm
Only took until the 3rd inning for the Sox to get fucked by a call this year. Ridiculous.
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post #6 of 285
4/5/10 at 10:08am
So, what was going on with Beckett? Opening day jitters? Pre-season rust? He struggled through last night's game, and while we came out on top his performance leaves me feeling a little concerned. Maybe that'll pass once I check out the Globe.

But yeah, other than that, pretty great way to start the season, though that's pretty much a given when your opening game sees you defeat the Yankees from behind.
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post #7 of 285
4/5/10 at 12:41pm
Red Sucks. Heh heh, get it? Cause they suck. Funny, no?
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post #8 of 285
4/5/10 at 10:15pm
nothin' like a Pedroia homer to start another season, haha.

Guys, i was gone all last season so i completely forgot that people calling into talk radio stations can be wholly negative about the sox after an awesome win like that. This will take some re-acquainting
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post #9 of 285
4/7/10 at 2:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by agracru View Post
So, what was going on with Beckett? Opening day jitters? Pre-season rust? He struggled through last night's game, and while we came out on top his performance leaves me feeling a little concerned. Maybe that'll pass once I check out the Globe.
I think the one downside to Beckett is that when he gets a bad call or two, or he makes a mistake or two...he gets too frustrated and lets it all get to him way too much. This starts a fast downward spiral I've seen him fall into time and time again. Bad calls especially piss him off. He needs to watch his temper, I think. He's a control freak. He'll be fine the rest of the season.
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post #10 of 285
4/7/10 at 6:14pm
Beckett definitely has problems with tilt. I'm sure he'll be fine for the rest of the season, it's just disconcerting to see his worst tendencies surface in the first of many games he's got to pitch this year. (Though, again, it's just the first.)

I am legit concerned about Papi, though grant that I felt the same way last year. I love him, but he can't hit lefties anymore, and frankly I'm worried that he can't rebound from '09. I feel like the Sox should be using Lowell as the DH against lefties.

Am I being paranoid? I don't think so. I think that the Ortiz problem is a real one, and something that the Sox are going to have to face and resolve ASAP.

Looking forward to seeing Lackey perform tonight!
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post #11 of 285
4/7/10 at 6:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by agracru View Post
I am legit concerned about Papi, though grant that I felt the same way last year. I love him, but he can't hit lefties anymore, and frankly I'm worried that he can't rebound from '09. I feel like the Sox should be using Lowell as the DH against lefties.
Yeah, I hate to say it but I think Papi's done. I'll always love him, 'roids or not, but everyone is talking about Lowell as DH. And honestly, god bless Lowell and as long as he's healthy enough to hit, I think that's the best use of everyone's talents.
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post #12 of 285
4/8/10 at 3:32pm
Stick a fork in Papi. Has there ever been a player who has benefited more from the Juice than him?
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post #13 of 285
4/8/10 at 4:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob loblaw View Post
Stick a fork in Papi. Has there ever been a player who has benefited more from the Juice than him?
Financially, lots.

A great question, though. Maybe Palmeiro? Juan Gonzalez?


I hope to see Lowell pulling some DH duties. At the very least, switch Papi and Drew in the batting order.
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post #14 of 285
4/8/10 at 4:28pm
Yeah, but Palmeiro and Gonzalez probably would have had long careers, (not on the same level but) similar to how AROD and Bonds still would have had careers.

After his stint with the Twins, Ortiz was an afterthought, a part-time player, maybe even had one foot out the door. He certainly wasn't Big Papi. He made his career in Boston with the aid of the roids. This isn't gonna end well for him.
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post #15 of 285
4/8/10 at 5:22pm
It's only been three games, and he did have a hit last night. I'm not pulling wool over my own eyes, but I think we have to give him a couple more weeks at least. Maybe even a month. If he's still slumping, send in Iron Man.
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post #16 of 285
4/8/10 at 5:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parker View Post
It's only been three games, and he did have a hit last night. I'm not pulling wool over my own eyes, but I think we have to give him a couple more weeks at least. Maybe even a month. If he's still slumping, send in Iron Man.
No question, and he did face some good pitching. It's a marathon, and the Sox brass is watching much more closely than we are.

It'll be nice to play a team other than NYY. Those games are so exhausting, need a break.
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post #17 of 285
4/9/10 at 11:39am
My problem in being amongst the Boston "unfaithful" is this-- how much time do we have to give before our faith is rewarded? Reading comments on Boston.com's "Lowell or Papi" poll, you'd think that those of us who want the Sox to give Lowell a chance over Papi are kicking puppies or something, and I don't get it. We've put our faith in Papi for a while, and he really hasn't come through.

Being a Boston fan is all about hope and optimism but I'd like to think that rational thought is acceptable, too. Parker's definitely right that 3 games is too small a sample size, and that two weeks to a month seems like a solid evaluation period, but what about after that?

Popular opinion seems to suggest platooning Lowell and Papi, which I'm for. It's not like I hate Ortiz. I love him. But I also want him to be on-board as a productive member of the team.
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post #18 of 285
4/9/10 at 1:27pm
I know Papi is treated as some sort of messiah for your misguided troupe, but Nomar, Pedro and Manny all came and went. Eventually it becomes time to move on, no matter who you are. As a Yanks fan, I am much more uncomfortable with Lowell at the dish than Ortiz, and facing a left-handed pitcher there should be no question who gets the playing time at DH.
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post #19 of 285
4/9/10 at 1:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob loblaw View Post
I know Papi is treated as some sort of messiah for your misguided troupe, but Nomar, Pedro and Manny all came and went. Eventually it becomes time to move on, no matter who you are. As a Yanks fan, I am much more uncomfortable with Lowell at the dish than Ortiz, and facing a left-handed pitcher there should be no question who gets the playing time at DH.
He's not a messiah, but there's somewhat of a nasty habit among Sox Sports fans and writers to kick a guy while he's down without remembering what he's done for us. When Nomar started slumping everyone started shitting on him. And Manny is now a dirty word in this town. Yeah, he fucked with 'roids, but he also helped us win two World Series. That alone deserves some respect from fans and local writers. It's shitty business because it's easy to support a guy when he's hot but harder when he's not, but that's what being a fan is about. I know the goal is to win games, but it's three games in and we have other hitters. And I know he had a shit season last year, but I don't think giving him a couple more weeks is all that much to ask for. Especially given everything the guy has done for the team.
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post #20 of 285
4/9/10 at 2:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parker View Post
He's not a messiah, but there's somewhat of a nasty habit among Sox Sports fans and writers to kick a guy while he's down without remembering what he's done for us. When Nomar started slumping everyone started shitting on him. And Manny is now a dirty word in this town. Yeah, he fucked with 'roids, but he also helped us win two World Series. That alone deserves some respect from fans and local writers. It's shitty business because it's easy to support a guy when he's hot but harder when he's not, but that's what being a fan is about. I know the goal is to win games, but it's three games in and we have other hitters. And I know he had a shit season last year, but I don't think giving him a couple more weeks is all that much to ask for. Especially given everything the guy has done for the team.
I won't argue that he was great, he was frightening in his prime. And I think the Sox have been patient with him over the last year because of it. He has to be burning up all that goodwill currency he has accumulated over the years. He had a bad year last year, despite his second half. He hasn't looked good so far this year (granted its early). But you can't have a DH bat .230 or less, and he has certainly lost his aura. He is a big, lumbering, aging DH who was once on the juice and who has had nagging injuries these last couple of years. Of course he is on the decline, and these guys usually fall pretty hard.
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post #21 of 285
4/10/10 at 1:02am
4 games in, and I'm feeling a bit strange. On the one hand, it's only 4 games. On the other, soon we won't be able to say "it's only X games". So far, not a whole lot looks different. Starting pitching is great; hitting is OK at the beginning of games; relief pitching is not good; the hitting disappears late.

Blowing a 3-0 lead to the terrible Royals is so 2009. Change something guys.
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post #22 of 285
4/10/10 at 12:34pm
That was pretty pathetic last night. What happened to our bullpen being great and the Royals' bullpen being shit?
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post #23 of 285
4/11/10 at 12:05am
Rick Ankiel is destroying Red Sox pitching. It's insane to watch.

Nice beating Greinke today. The Sox needed a W bad.
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post #24 of 285
4/12/10 at 1:00am
so what are our early thoughts on the new acquisitions?

Beltre has looked good, even though he tried to KILL JACOBY ELLSBURY tonight

Camerons the interesting one for me. he's getting on base, but with with nothing in the way of rbis or runs to show for it. I feel like he's been a little bit in no man's land in the order so far.

regardless, this isn't really what i expected to see from this team before the season. scoring runs in bunches and not protecting leads? wild.
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post #25 of 285
4/12/10 at 1:06am
Is Jacoby Ellsbury a mute? How else can you explain those two massive fielding mistakes involving him today.

I love all of the noobs so far. They've all contributed, and if Jeremy Hermida continues to hit, his bat will be a welcome change for the corpse of Papi.
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post #26 of 285
4/15/10 at 1:42pm
Yeah, the new guys are working out splendidly. I'm especially happy with Beltre, myself, but everyone of them is pulling his weight.

Final Twins game at 1:10, Wakefield pitching. I feel like the Sox are starting to get back into the swing of things (if you'll pardon the pun), so I have a good feeling about this one.

I'm more excited about seeing them play the Rays tomorrow night, though.
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post #27 of 285
4/15/10 at 5:12pm
Well, fuck me sideways.
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post #28 of 285
4/16/10 at 12:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by agracru View Post
Well, fuck me sideways.
Yep. A nice ass-beating today. Got 4 games with the Rays starting tomorrow. Yikes.

Although going 2-4 against the Yanks and Twins isn't so bad, considering they're both favorites to win their divisions.
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post #29 of 285
4/16/10 at 12:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by agracru View Post
I have a good feeling about this one.
lol
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post #30 of 285
4/19/10 at 3:59pm
Ugh, the Rays just finished the 4-game sweep in Fenway. This team is not good, and there are zero signs of life. Sure, Pedey is still the man, but he's the only one that's been consistent. Well, consistently good I should say.

Off to the worst start since 1996, and already 6 games behind both the Yankees and Rays. After 13 games, that's pretty impressive.
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post #31 of 285
4/19/10 at 5:17pm
So, are the Sox gonna release Ortiz?
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post #32 of 285
4/19/10 at 6:03pm
How's that new defensive approach working out so far?
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post #33 of 285
4/19/10 at 6:32pm
Is 12 games a big enough sample size? I don't really care. This team's just not looking good; everything Joe said is completely on the money. Granted, there are still a lot of games between now and October-- maybe the guys just need to find their rhythm. Their chemistry. Their fucking baseball skills. Everything. They can pull it together, I'm sure, and it'll make up for the absolutely abysmal way they've kicked the season off, but it doesn't make this any easier to endure.
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post #34 of 285
4/19/10 at 6:50pm
You need offensive firepower to trade blows with the Yanks and the Rays. And while Pedroia is a good hitter and Youkilis and Martinez will start hitting eventually you would think, there is nobody that puts the fear of god into you.

The Sox had the right blueprint in '04 and '07...the same blueprint as the '09 Yankees and the '08 Phillies. Big boppers surrounded by guys who take pitches and get on base. I'm still surprised they didn't trade for Cabrera or Gonzalez in the off-season. Maybe they will at some point this year.
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post #35 of 285
4/19/10 at 7:51pm
A big bat would definitely help...the Sox have scored one run in their last 55 innings that didn't come from a HR. Atrocious.

Equally atrocious, though, has been their pitching. And their defense. Laughably bad. A pitching and defense philosophy isn't a bad one, but you need good pitching and defense. The Sox are getting neither. To go along with their lack of offense. A perfect storm of early-season suck.
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post #36 of 285
4/19/10 at 8:19pm
As much as you think Cameron might be an upgrade in center, wouldn't you call Ellsbury and Scutaro subpar so far, defensively?

I know the Sox would have to give up alot to get Gonzalez but wouldn't he fit perfectly with what you are trying to do?
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post #37 of 285
4/19/10 at 9:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob loblaw View Post
As much as you think Cameron might be an upgrade in center, wouldn't you call Ellsbury and Scutaro subpar so far, defensively?

I know the Sox would have to give up alot to get Gonzalez but wouldn't he fit perfectly with what you are trying to do?
It seems everyone outside of Youk and Pedey has been bad defensively.

AGon would be a good fit, but I'm not sure how he'd fit with the current team. Move Youk back to 3rd? Bench Beltre? Lowell is still on the team. Also, as you said, the Sox would have to give up a lot...but those pieces aren't performing at a very high level. Jed Hoyer, the former assistant GM to Theo, obviously would be able to see this a mile away.

The joy and optimism from the opening-night comeback against the Yanks seems like such a long time ago.
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post #38 of 285
4/20/10 at 11:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe View Post
It seems everyone outside of Youk and Pedey has been bad defensively.

AGon would be a good fit, but I'm not sure how he'd fit with the current team. Move Youk back to 3rd? Bench Beltre? Lowell is still on the team. Also, as you said, the Sox would have to give up a lot...but those pieces aren't performing at a very high level. Jed Hoyer, the former assistant GM to Theo, obviously would be able to see this a mile away.

The joy and optimism from the opening-night comeback against the Yanks seems like such a long time ago.
Move Ortiz to the bench. Have a DH rotation involving Youklis, Gonzalez and Beltre. Or Youklis to the OF and have Drew in the DH rotation. The '10 Sox remind me of the '08 Yankees. Alot of of dead contract weight, bad defensively, no spark whatsoever. Fortunately the Yanks were able to replace alot of that with a good '09 free agent haul.
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post #39 of 285
4/20/10 at 11:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob loblaw View Post
Move Ortiz to the bench. Have a DH rotation involving Youklis, Gonzalez and Beltre. Or Youklis to the OF and have Drew in the DH rotation. The '10 Sox remind me of the '08 Yankees. Alot of of dead contract weight, bad defensively, no spark whatsoever. Fortunately the Yanks were able to replace alot of that with a good '09 free agent haul.
Youks cannot play in the OF as he's terrible out there. Beltre's isn't a good enough hitter to warrant a sole DH spot, and his D is too good at 3rd to waste. These are the things that make acquiring a 1B so difficult, although I'm sure they'd figure something out to bring in a marquee hitter.

I like the comparison to the '08 Yanks. Unfortunately for the Sox, there's only one team that can spend $450 million in one off-season, and it ain't them. Plus, the upcoming free agent class doesn't have the perfect pieces the Yanks got, AND the best pieces (Carl Crawford and Cliff Lee) will both be Yanks anyway.
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post #40 of 285
4/20/10 at 12:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe View Post
Youks cannot play in the OF as he's terrible out there. Beltre's isn't a good enough hitter to warrant a sole DH spot, and his D is too good at 3rd to waste. These are the things that make acquiring a 1B so difficult, although I'm sure they'd figure something out to bring in a marquee hitter.

I like the comparison to the '08 Yanks. Unfortunately for the Sox, there's only one team that can spend $450 million in one off-season, and it ain't them. Plus, the upcoming free agent class doesn't have the perfect pieces the Yanks got, AND the best pieces (Carl Crawford and Cliff Lee) will both be Yanks anyway.
Now now, lets not cry poverty here, I won't accept that from a Red Sox fan. You guys are not immune shelling out the dough for stiffs like Drew and Dice-K. I think you guys are still paying for Edgar Renteria. You are right about the upcoming free agent class though. I don't think the Yanks will be in for Lee but I can definately see Crawford in pinstripes. I think the Red Sox were secretly putting their eggs in the Mauer basket before he resigned.

I thought Youk could play the outfield, I know its not his natural habitat but I didn't think he was bad either. I guess Gonzalez could go to first and Youk could DH. What you really need is a power hitting OF, but there really isnt one of those out there either.
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post #41 of 285
4/20/10 at 3:20pm
I'm not crying poverty whatsoever. I'm just saying that there's only one team in sports that can spend $450 million in one off-season*, and it isn't Boston. The Sox have a lot of money, as do a lot of other teams. But the Yankees are on a whole other level from everyone, and it was a perfect storm for them last year. I wish the Sox could spend like NY does, I really do.

Youk played some games in the OF a few years ago, but he was pretty bad. Indeed, there's just not a whole lot out there, including in the farm system.

* - edited to add they did that after spending $300 million+ the previous off-season.
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post #42 of 285
4/20/10 at 4:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe View Post
I like the comparison to the '08 Yanks. Unfortunately for the Sox, there's only one team that can spend $450 million in one off-season, and it ain't them.
Carl Pohlad was worth something like 3 billion.
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post #43 of 285
4/20/10 at 4:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Subotai View Post
Carl Pohlad was worth something like 3 billion.
Every team owner is rich.
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post #44 of 285
4/20/10 at 4:41pm
And some are billionaires - so it's not quite correct to say that only one team can spend money.
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post #45 of 285
4/20/10 at 4:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Subotai View Post
And some are billionaires - so it's not quite correct to say that only one team can spend money.
I said only one team can spend money like the Yankees.

Those owners didn't become rich by being bad businessmen.
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post #46 of 285
4/20/10 at 5:10pm
Again, nothing's stopping some of these owners from investing money in their teams - not only on top-tier free agents, but on the amateur draft, improving their farm system, scouting, etc. Is that bad business? Maybe to some owners. Not to John Henry or the Steinbrenners.
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post #47 of 285
4/20/10 at 5:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Subotai View Post
Again, nothing's stopping some of these owners from investing money in their teams - not only on top-tier free agents, but on the amateur draft, improving their farm system, scouting, etc. Is that bad business? Maybe to some owners. Not to John Henry or the Steinbrenners.
I wish more teams would spend more to field more competitive teams. I know owners can spend more, and there are some that are in it strictly for the money. It infuriates me that the Pirates are heading towards their 18th consecutive losing season. None of this changes the fact that NY can, and does, outspend every team.

My whole point to even bringing up the ol' dead horse was as a response to this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob loblaw View Post
The '10 Sox remind me of the '08 Yankees. Alot of of dead contract weight, bad defensively, no spark whatsoever. Fortunately the Yanks were able to replace alot of that with a good '09 free agent haul.
I was pointing out that A), the upcoming free agent class is nothing like that one; B), the marquee players in the upcoming class wouldn't immediately transform the Sox like the '09 Yanks; and C), even if the class had the same talent, it doesn't matter because the Yanks get first dibs.

And what about the ability to retain your own, homegrown superstars? That's a huge deal.

Again, it's all within the rules and I wish the Sox could spend like they do. It's nice having JH & Co., but they aren't the Steinbrenners.
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post #48 of 285
4/20/10 at 5:40pm
Some owners have a professional team because they want to make money. Some owners have a professional team because they want the glory that comes with winning.

I know the Yankees have advantages, but I am pretty sure I read somewhere that the Steinbrenner's are not even in the top half of wealthiest baseball owners.
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post #49 of 285
4/20/10 at 5:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe View Post
I wish more teams would spend more to field more competitive teams. I know owners can spend more, and there are some that are in it strictly for the money. It infuriates me that the Pirates are heading towards their 18th consecutive losing season. None of this changes the fact that NY can, and does, outspend every team.

My whole point to even bringing up the ol' dead horse was as a response to this:



I was pointing out that A), the upcoming free agent class is nothing like that one; B), the marquee players in the upcoming class wouldn't immediately transform the Sox like the '09 Yanks; and C), even if the class had the same talent, it doesn't matter because the Yanks get first dibs.

And what about the ability to retain your own, homegrown superstars? That's a huge deal.

Again, it's all within the rules and I wish the Sox could spend like they do. It's nice having JH & Co., but they aren't the Steinbrenners.
Lets not get crazy here. The Sox could have had AROD. They were in the Texieira bidding till the end. They paid over 50 mil just for the right to negotiate with Dice K. They signed Lackey to a big contract this season. I'm not buying your arguement.
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post #50 of 285
4/20/10 at 5:48pm
The Red Sox are playing right now? I know that they had that one game against the yankees on opening night, but they haven't had a game since then right? right?? RIGHT???
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