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The Pope was intimately involved in covering up abuse - Page 5

post #201 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg David View Post
I'm still not understanding the lack of criminal charges. Since when is it up to an organization to which the perpetrator belongs to decide on punitive action? Only the military is supposed to have the right to sidestep the criminal justice system and employ their own. Right? Why does the church get to have a say in it at all?
Well, this should prove interesting: Dawkins and Hitchens brief Geoffrey Robertson on possibilities for arresting the Pope ala Pinochet

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/com...cle7094310.ece
post #202 of 216
This is pretty funny, as billboard vandalism goes, made more so by the fact that the newspaper reporting on it has no clue who Pedobear is.
post #203 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ianthe View Post
Well, this should prove interesting: Dawkins and Hitchens brief Geoffrey Robertson on possibilities for arresting the Pope ala Pinochet

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/com...cle7094310.ece
I just came here to post the HuffPo link http://piks.nl/hwS

It would be awesome if this go further...
post #204 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg David View Post
I'm still not understanding the lack of criminal charges. Since when is it up to an organization to which the perpetrator belongs to decide on punitive action? Only the military is supposed to have the right to sidestep the criminal justice system and employ their own. Right? Why does the church get to have a say in it at all?
The Vatican is a soverign state established in 1929, however the Holy See predates that by quite a bit. You're not just talking about an organization, it's a country without a country and with diplomatic ties to 177 other countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_See

The Pope is the soverign ruler of that country and it's a little murkey on if and how he could be removed, especially considering how different the world is from the 15th century, when the last pope was 'removed'.

So, in short, to answer your question. The Holy See has no criminal justice system, so to speak.
post #205 of 216
Let's send in Batman to get him with a Skyhook.
post #206 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Singer View Post
Let's send in Batman to get him with a Skyhook.
Well, he has diplomatic immunity, so even if he's in another country he can't be tried, sure he could be arrested but they'd just have to let him go... then again, it's not like the Holy See has any military power to speak of. So what's the worst case scenario, they damn your soul to hell and hold a few candle lit vigils outside the jail?

Now, I don't know what happens if he were to resign if he'd still have that diplomatic immunity, more than likely not... so there is zero incentive for him to resign. Most likely scenario, we're talking a Pope John Paul I type scenario similar to what was eluded to in Godfather III (killed).
post #207 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaieke View Post
So what's the worst case scenario...

I don't know, but I bet Dan Brown is writing a plot outline as we speak.
post #208 of 216
But the priests who are actually suspected of these crimes are not in the Vatican; they're in the UK and US. They hold no such diplomatic immunity, as they're citizens of their respective countries. There should be no question of prosecuting them under the laws of the land.
post #209 of 216
Nice one Catholic Church, this should turn around all your bad press. Way to have your finger on the pop culture pulse there.

Quote:
AT THE height of their fame, the Beatles enraged the Catholic Church by declaring that they were bigger than Jesus.

Their enthusiastic pursuit of the sex, drugs and rock'n'roll life also did little to convince the Vatican that they were anything other than a thoroughly bad influence.

But now, in a move sanctioned by Pope Benedict XVI, the church has forgiven the Fab Four and lauded them as a ''precious jewel''.
post #210 of 216
I''m going to ask that creepy old guy who hangs around the school what he thinks about my Can records
post #211 of 216
Apparently the Stones have asked for their own "apology". I mean, c'mon Benedict! Fair's fair!

http://open.salon.com//blog/con_chap...ask_for_pardon
post #212 of 216
...and the hits just keep on coming (and coming and coming)...

Quote:
The Vatican has moved to ward off a fresh scandal over the handling of paedophile priests after a letter surfaced indicating high-level co-operation in covering up for abusers.

Spokesman Federico Lombardi said on Thursday the letter underscored the correctness of a 2001 decision to consolidate responsibility for handling cases of sexual abuse of minors by clergy under one Vatican department.

In the letter, recently reproduced on the website of French magazine Golias, a top Vatican prelate wrote to a French bishop praising him for not turning in a pedophile priest.

The bishop of Bayeux-Lisieux in northern France, Pierre Pican, was jailed for three months for not informing on Abbot Bissey, who was sentenced to 18 years in prison in 2000 for pedophilia.

"I congratulate you on not having spoken out to civil authorities against a priest," wrote Cardinal Dario Castrillon Hoyos, then prefect of the Congregation for the Clergy.

"You have done well and I am delighted to have an associate in the episcopate who... preferred prison to speaking out against a son-priest."

Hoyos added that he would send a copy of the letter to all the bishops' conferences in the world "to encourage the brothers in the episcopate in this very delicate area".
post #213 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaieke View Post
Well, he has diplomatic immunity, so even if he's in another country he can't be tried, sure he could be arrested but they'd just have to let him go... then again, it's not like the Holy See has any military power to speak of. So what's the worst case scenario, they damn your soul to hell and hold a few candle lit vigils outside the jail?

Now, I don't know what happens if he were to resign if he'd still have that diplomatic immunity, more than likely not... so there is zero incentive for him to resign. Most likely scenario, we're talking a Pope John Paul I type scenario similar to what was eluded to in Godfather III (killed).
The Pope has diplomatic immunity under what document? The Vatican was created by Mussolini and denied sovereign international nation status by the United Nations.
post #214 of 216
bunktokima.gif
post #215 of 216
...and now in my own backyard...

300 abuse cases, one defrocking

Quote:
VICTORIA Police has called for sweeping changes to the way Melbourne's Catholic Church deals with sex crime allegations, as The Age reveals that only one priest has been defrocked for abuse in the past 14 years.

Nearly 300 allegations of sexual abuse have been substantiated by church investigations since 1996, when the ''Melbourne Response'' was set up to deal with complaints. It is believed the abuses were perpetrated by approximately 100 priests, a figure the church will not confirm. Just one priest has been defrocked as a result. Some other priests lost their role serving a parish full-time.

Church sources say police are pushing for change because they do not want accused priests told about covert criminal investigations. Last year detectives feared the church's independent commissioner, Peter O'Callaghan, QC, may have compromised two covert investigations when he told two priests, through their lawyers, that they were being investigated. He did this without the consent of detectives, who had not yet interviewed the priests. Mr O'Callaghan's investigation is suspended when police begin theirs - and he argues that priests have a right to know.

Police - and some within the church - also want more direct support for abuse victims.

Police intervened after five victims last year told The Age they had concerns about the church's handling of their complaints.

The Age can now reveal that in August last year Mr O'Callaghan told an alleged victim that his alleged groping by a priest was unlikely to constitute a crime. In a letter he said: ''Without seeking to dissuade you from reporting the matter to police if you so desire, I must say that the conduct you described is unlikely to be held by a court as criminal conduct.''

Weeks later, police immediately assessed the same complaint as a potential sexual assault. They began an investigation and if the claim is proved it will constitute serious criminal conduct. When asked by The Age about that letter, Mr O'Callaghan refused to comment, citing ''potential court proceedings''.

Mr O'Callaghan is paid by the church to inquire into allegations of clerical abuse, interview victims and the accused priests, and make findings on abuse claims. The findings are used by the church to gauge financial aid for victims.

Victoria Police would not comment other than to say talks are continuing. The Melbourne Archdiocese says it hopes to detail publicly any changes ''in the next few weeks''.

Mr O'Callaghan previously has said that if asked he would not comply with police requests to keep their inquiries confidential, saying priests have a right to know. ''I would have advised them, I would not consent to such a course.''

Archbishop Denis Hart last year publicly dismissed the need for any changes, saying ''because of its success, there is no need to review or fundamentally alter'' the Melbourne Response. He also stood by Mr O'Callaghan saying: ''There's been no complaint from the police.''

The Age has confirmed that some priests deemed abusers by the church have conducted weddings and funerals and have also acted as replacement priests. A small number of priests have had their ''canonical faculties removed'' - meaning they cannot celebrate any services outside their home.

In a statement this week the church said there have been few complaints from those involved in the process and those who have complained are ''very much in the minority''.

At present there is only ad hoc communication between the church and police, and no mandatory reporting of claims of abuse.

Mr O'Callaghan said he always encouraged victims to go to the police and he told The Age he welcomed ''constructive criticism'' but did not ''envisage any substantial change in my role or process''. The church also said it expected no change to Mr O'Callaghan's role.

The scheme has not been reviewed in the 14 years it has been operating, despite calls from others within the church.
These people simply act without any thought for modern laws. The cops say "please keep our enquiries confidential", the church says "Ummmm no we're not going to do that"

One priest has been defrocked, no one has gone to jail or gone to court, and when presented with cases of abuse the church says the priests in question aren't breaking any laws, while the same cases then come before the police and they say they are.

No one has been charged, no one has gone to jail.

I get that the Pope is immune from prosecution, but how the fuck are these priests immune?????
post #216 of 216
Ok, WTF?!

Mounties rule out charges against Bishop Lahey in Nova Scotia
Quote:
The RCMP say they have completed an “in-depth and thorough analysis” of computers and storage devices that were seized during searches last October from Bishop Raymond Lahey's former residences in Antigonish and Sydney.
The Mounties say no criminal charges will be laid based on their examination of those electronic devices.
The RCMP is returning the seized computers and storage devices to the diocese.
The 69-year-old bishop was charged with possessing and importing child pornography on Sept. 25 — 10 days after he was detained and questioned by Canada Border Services Agency officers at Ottawa airport.
First an ex-parliamentarian gets off without drug possession charges despite actually being caught with cocaine and now this?

Who's up for a killing spree?
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