Job Centre ejects Jedi Knight for not removing Robe

How is it different from a burqua?

That was basically the same question the jedi had.

Sure, but the Force is as real as God, or Allah.

I'm sorry but is this supposed to be "ha-ha" cute or is it "derp-derp" stupid? I want to be sure I'm just missing the sarcasm.

It's sarcastic. And then not. Jedi religion is as retarded as Christiany, Scientology or Islam. 2 of these just have a shitload of followers.

So...."derp-derp," then.

What! This guy doesn't have a job?

Thanks Joe.

But again: where do you draw the line? How do you accomodate all religions? If not all of them, which ones? And why?

How about "society isn't going to officially recognize your religion if it is based on an admittedly fictional concept created to serve an admitted work of fiction," let's start the line there for now.

Alternatively "if most people laugh at you when you suggest 'Jedi' is your religion, get fucked. Sorry."

Line-drawing exercises are useful, but always lead to absurdity, like this question. How about we start by distinguishing them on the basis of sincerity? The Jedi religion is expressly, knowingly fictional. Islam, despite the insistence of non-believers that it is equally fictional, is a deeply, sincerely felt religion to 1.5 billion people.

So if enough people believe the fiction it should be treated as truth?

I vote we get a religion up and running for Santa Clause. Fuck this "Jesus' birthday" guff, 25th December is SANTA DAY.

You're almost implausibly stupid, based on your posting today.

Do you know anything about humanity? I think even an alien race would know the answer to such a stupid question.

I was being facetious, indulging in the absurdity that you yourself pointed out. Feel free to call me stupid again, though. Can't get enough of assholes doing that around here.

Here's the thing: Islam may now be a deeply-held set of beliefs to a large group of people, but it started somewhere, with stories and folklore derived from one man and his supposed relationship with God. I'm not saying that this Jedi nonsense is a legit religion - it clearly isn't - but in ten generations' time, who's to say whether there will be sincerity behind those beliefs? Your line of thinking would suggest that all new religions are destined to societal rejection, which is madness. With this kind of stuff it needs to be in for a penny, in for a pound - you can't deny a religion its freedoms based upon your perpection of its followers' sincerity. I'm sure Jesus seemed like a nut or a fraud back in the day.

And then it comes back to whether or not ANY religion deserves special treatment from society given their shaky relationship with science and reality, which is a whole 'nuther can of worms.

We're, in Quebec, right in a debate about relious accomodation. The Niqab, while being a religious symbol, mask the identity of the wearer and is a symbol of religious oppression against women. It's been decried by moderated Islamic women all over the world.

Some Hassdim Jews are refusing to be served by women in official function, such as policewomen.

It's weird, but a line has to be drawn, or you refuse all religious symbols.

WHAT. Of course you (society) can. And should.

*Really*? Actually think about that for a second. If you willing to say to one group "you can wear your headress because of your belief in an omnipotent being that lives in the sky" then why not others, regardless of whether or not you think that they're serious? I think that a massive amount of televangelists are blowhards, but nobody seems to be arguing that they should lose their religious freedoms. And who makes the decisions as to who is sincere, full of crap, or mentally ill? And what if they're more than one of those things? And back to the point in my last post - what about in a generations' time, if/when there are a group of youngsters who genuinely embrace this Jedi code or whatever? Do they get religious freedom, or are they just dense? And if the latter, what separates them from Christians et al other than the length of time between the births of their respective religions?

If a government wants to protect religious freedoms such as burkha wearing et cetera then they need to be consistent. It was the British government's own census rules which saw Jedism being recognised, so they should play by their own rules.

He has a point here; the Jedi religion does not advocacy anything taht goes against the law or the basic rights and civil liberties of the citizens, and its recognized as a valid religion; therefore, it should be respected.

It's would still be a moral code, not a religion. But, I agree with the final point: By the laws of Britain, this guy has had his rights violated.

Some things you just understand if you want to function in the real world. The statement "my religion is Jedi" is ridiculous, and that's one of those things you just need to "get."

If you REALLY can't get that and need a brightline test for denying official recognition to a religion, I'll go with "indisputably fictional" until something better comes along.

We need fewer religions, not more. Not accepting new members at this time. You want a recognized religion, pick one that's been around awhile.

Otherwise you know what worked well for a lot of the recognized religions? Persecution. So sorry Jedi. Hold to your faith for a few hundred years as we throw you to the lions, wage Crusades against you and round you up in concentration camps. If after all that I start marching you to the showers and you don't change your "I'm a Jedi" tune, we'll think about letting you into the club.

Agreed, but the law is still the law until it's not. Believe me, as a lawyer, I am well acquainted with bad laws that still need enforcement.

The law is the law. If being a fucking Jedi is a religion recognized by the state it deserves the absolute same rights as being a Christian or a Muslim or whatever else you subscribe in. Maybe it will serve as a lesson for them not to have stupid polls.

And a little question. I just noticed that the spell-checker indicates that not capitalizing Christian or Muslim is wrong. Is this an actual rule in spelling English? Because we have no rule like that in Greek.

Began, these civil righst war have.

Dude, you sound like a hardcore Christian here.

Here's a fact: religions are born and will eventually die off, and others will come over. It doesn't make the Jedi religion anymore ligit or less silly: it is a prank. And a good one. The British government was stupid enough to admit it as a religion, now they have to live with this shit.

But is it as silly as a schmuck as a 33 years old virgin who finally got nailed, on a cross, was reborn, went to heaven, and will come again at the Apocalypse?

i just wish he would have picked a more mainstream religion. Like Oprahism ... or Voodoo.

Hey, at least he's not a practicing Sith. I don't mean to be prejudiced but those guys are nothing but trouble.

More than half the United States Senate and Congress members are Sith.

Savage, how silly the tenets and practices of one "religion" are versus another (a subjective comparison to be sure) isn't the same debate as whether or not we (society) should be recognizing a new one.

No, but both are meaningless. They admitted Jedi as religion. Too bad.

Way to miss the point again, Martin.

Savage, at least one of us also seems to misunderstand the legal status of "Jedi" as a religion in the UK.

Im latin american, so I prefer WalterMercadismo myself.

Do you guys really not understand the difference between a real religion and one that is clearly a prank? Or is your premise simply that "all religions are fake and therefore stupid and unworthy of respect" (an argument calculated to gain the admiration of people like Nordling)?

If he can't move things with his mind or build a fully-functioning lightsaber, he's no Jedi in my book.

hey, there are plenty of different sith out there, Rule of Many Sith, Rule of Two Sith, Rule of One Sith....and there's also those that turned to Dark Jedi.
Dont group them all in the same bunch.

While there is clearly some button pushing going on here, the point is that the law cannot distinguish between a real religion and fake one because they have so much in common. Rules like the ones you're advocating would have prevented the Morman church from being recognized, Scientology, and plenty of others.

Ask yourself this: if there were religions before yours that weren't perfect (and that's what caused your religion to evolve the way it has, to be sure) what makes you think it was perfected with your belief system and can't be changed further? New religions evolve from existing ones by changing some of the rules for a variety of reasons; good things come of these new religions, like BattleField Earth and Big Love. It's silly to thing we can stop that with legislation. We shouldn't even try.

And I'm sorry for the button pushing. Jenkis summed up my opinion in a much better fashio that I could have ever said.

Although I agree with your central premise, I still don't think that the formation of Scientology went like so:

L. Ron Hubbard: Ok Tom Cruise, here's our religion. We believe in Xenu and Thetans and nuclear bombs and volcanoes and no psychotherapy. But, and this is key... I made it all up. It is all fake. You need to believe deeply in things that you know for a fact are fake because I am telling you that they are fake.

Even if the followers of Scientology are stupid, they are sincere. They don't believe that their religion is fake on the whole. I'm sure some do, but that is not meaningfully different from the fringe followers of any mainstream religion.

By contrast, George Lucas told us all that the Force and the Jedi are fake. They are as fictional as anything can be, and it is impossible to sanely claim otherwise. No matter how fictional other religions may be, they have staked their claims on the fact that their belief structure is real and based upon real things. It's an important difference.

If anything, we could imagine a philosophy of celibacy and boring trade discussions which grows to great popularity under the Jedi name. Maybe it leads to enormous social benefits and creates masterful works of art. It's still no more a religion than Utilitarianism, Dadaism, or Nihilism.

There are really two arguments going on in this thread:

1) This guy had his rights violated because "Jedi" is an official religion. Well, maybe so. The idea of registering religions is foreign to me, so I don't really know how it works. But I do know that certain religious practices can be limited by the state if it's in the interest of public safety. For example, airport security could legally require a Muslim woman to remove her burqa, or a sikh to remove his turban. So it's likely that security at this job-bank was justified (although not necessarily correct) in making this guy leave.

2. Jedi as a religion is comparable to Christianity or Islam. If you really believe this, I don't know what to tell you. But if your point is that ANY belief system is phony and religious people are ignorant and stupid ... well-played. You're a champion of mature debate and on the cutting edge of social commentary.

My personal take on all this religion baiting is that I'd love for the Atheist Crusaders to go convince the Islamic fundamentalists of their folly.

I'll be happy to deal with the remnants afterwards.

Ah yes, those well-funded, completely organized, building-on-every-street-corner Atheist Crusaders. Is there any organization so invasive, so powerful, so prevalent? I'm so sick of their cable outlets, their door-to-door recruitment drives, their insidious and unconstitutional forays into lawmaking and government policies. When will this madness end?

Let's hope as soon as my sarcasm bomb is ready for deployment.

Maybe next Tuesday? How's that work for you?

Nope. Atheist Guild meeting. I gotta bring the casserole.

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