Ocean's Twelve (2004)

Aside from feeling like Vincent Cassel isnt in the film nearly enough for my tastes (always felt like he should've been the one getting Rusty up at the wrong time, alerting Lahiri that "Julia Roberts" was in the building, etc), I still come off this flick on the positive side as well.

The film is smarter than you, it knows it, revels in it, and ultimately says "Fuck you, we enjoyed doing it"

I'm not sure what that means... I 'got' the film, I just didn't like it.
EDIT: It was obnoxiously smug. I do not like Ms Roberts to begin with, and have no patience to watch her play someone pretending to be her. Ugh. It was essentially a rich celeb back patting session released into theaters nation wide under the guise of a feature film

It's the most interesting of the series and the best. Love the European locations. Never understood why Clooney et al went out of their way to apologise for this while promoting the mediocre 13. Great score to drive too as well

It also has the best use of freeze-frame in both Brad Pitt's and Soderbergh's career. You know what I'm talking about.

Its my fav of the trilogy as well, but what part 1 and 3 offer is a straight simple ride with the crew and chemistry to spare. Part II, the chemistry is there, but the ride is more complex. Clooney can keep apologizing for Batman, but he shouldn't for this.

You do realize that many people find the Julia Roberts sequence of the film completely terrible because it drags the audience right out of any suspension of disbelief? I mean, why stop at just Roberts? "Hey Danny, you look just like George Clooney! And your buddy looks just like Brad Pitt! Wow what are the chances of that!?" Blech.

But beyond that it's lazy plotting. It's one thing to use that as a throwaway joke, a moment to break the 4th wall. It's another thing to hinge a crucial chunk of plot and devote loads of screentime to it. To not only break the 4th wall, but stomp right through it without any of the intelligence of something like Blazing Saddles, and then to leap back into the rest of the movie as if nothing happened.

Not to shit on anyone's parade here. The movie looks great and has some very nice moments. Cassel is very cool in this too. The movie just can't recover from being a bloated mess. I guess I can understand if this doesn't bother you, but not see why others find it distracting is a bit surprising.

12 is the best of the series. 13 is the worst. 11 is a lot of fun, but 12 is clearly the best. It has the most interesting subtext of the three by far. The humor feels natural and less forced. The stakes are higher for the character (at least until the reveals at the end). And you can tell Soderbergh and the cast had fun making it. It feels like Soderbergh's big budget Full Frontal. Seriously. I mean, the first shot of the film is a lens with Brad Pitt reflected in it. It ends with him jumping out of a frame. I don't think people give this one enough credit.

And Rath, as great as that freeze frame is, the one at the end of the film tops it for me.

Also, for everyone complaining about the Julia Roberts stuff (as well as all the other winking Hollywood humor). Let me ask you this. What's funnier? Pretending that the character Julia Roberts plays looks like Julia Roberts? Or, pretending that any part Julia Roberts plays isn't really Julia Roberts?

How about neither.

I'm obviously not a huge fan of these films in general, so my opinion won't mean much to those who are. But I saw this in the theater and felt a bit ripped off after that sequence. I sorta felt as if the real "mark" of the film was the audience. Then I fell asleep for a couple of minutes.

Heist films by their nature rely heavily on clever plotting. Would the Spanish Prisoner be anything worth watching if it was completely predictable and didn't keep you guessing as to what was going to happen next?

I guess in the case of O12, it feels as if they're using their world-famous cast a huge crutch to cover up the fact that they wrote themselves into a corner. Which is a shame because there are some really nice bits of mainstream filmmaking here and going into the film, I wanted to really like it. That wonderful opening sequence promises a movie that the rest of the film can't deliver.

Maybe its the plunge in appreciation that the haters feel that makes them shit on it. It's one thing if a film is mediocre all the way through. You're like "meh that was okay" It's another to be like "this is really great so--OMG who shit the bed?!"

Wonderful movie. The gibberish bar scene is the greatest and funniest thing ever. It's basically a Schizopolis scene in a big budget Hollywood movie.

Ever ever? Or basically ever ever, basically? Because I thought Bad Boys II was the greatest thing ever. Or was that MI-2?

"Do you think that was okay? Because I was trying to be the leader." (I think that's the line.)

The whole thing is goofy from scene one. How can someone hate the Julia Roberts gag? This is the same film that, 15 minutes earlier, introduced a photorealistic 3D hologram Easter egg.

If this had been made in Europe in 1969, it would be a cult classic. Give it time. I love how, during a break-in scene, Clooney and Co. are literally wearing black woollen burglar caps and jumpsuits. This movie knows exactly what it's doing.

And it's not smug. ELEVEN is smug, to the point it's often unbearable. This is goofy, which goes a long way to defusing any smugness. And, ironically, this one deserves to be smug, because the plot, believe it or not, holds more water than ELEVEN.

Other good things:

* The zany rainbow colours during the studio logo.

* Boring characters like Bernie Mac and Andy Garcia and Carl Reiner are given less to do.

* The computer nerd doing awful stand-up while dressed as a matador, and bombing, and finally stooping to flapping his matador cape in a last-ditch attempt to milk laughs.

* Topher Grace's career-best work.

* Elliot Gould threatening to take a shit on Scott Caan's feet.

* Lovely/romantic European locations.

* The split-second flashback-within-a-flashback of Brad Pitt being chased by police is one of the funniest moments of all time. I remember my audience in the theatre cracking up at the look on Brad Pitt's face. A communal, universal experience.

Best movie of the millenium so far. And maybe the best musical score of the last two milleniums.

That said, some scenes are clunkers. The introduction of the Chinese acrobat is about as confusing as filmmaking can get. But it's an early stumbling-block, and can be overlooked.

The very act of watching this movie makes you 17 per cent cooler than you were previously. That's science fact.

I love Cassel in this. His Euro-arrogance comes across as this scintillating mix of justified entitlement and joie de vivre, so I just can't hate his character. And, of course, his break-in dance is platinum. (On the commentary, Soderbergh says how David Holmes hated the electro-pop music that accompanies it, with Soderbergh justifying his choice by saying "Yeah, but this is what Toulour would love!")

Pitt and Zeta-Jones have terrific chemistry, and quite frankly she's never looked hotter. During the flashback, there are a few shots of her that are breathtaking. (There's a five-second shot on Pitt and CZJ slow-dancing in a disco that's just beautiful.)

I also like how Bruce Willis is happy to be portrayed as a horny, egomaniacal douche in his cameo. Also, a great cameo by Cherry Jones.

If this had Jean-Pierre Melville's name on it, it'd have a Criterion double-disc edition by now. Still, I was happy to discover that the Blu-Ray has the commentary the DVD was lacking.

ELEVEN is Sinatra cool. This is Belmondo cool. THIRTEEN has one or two moments but it's generally uncool.

I do. I hate that fucking gag. It made me dis-like Roberts (I'd still hit it). It was just dumb, then you had Bruce Willis in the mix as well. The series in general has charm - but IMHO: Tried too hard at times.

Also, Joshua Jackson.

Yeah, I LOL'd for 10 minutes upon recent viewing.

___

Catherine Zeta-Jones was the 'real' star and the final scene with her father. I want to visit that location.

I usually hate telling people they didn't get a movie but I cannot believe most of the film's criticisms didn't come form people who simply didn't get it. It is easily the best of the "Ocean's" films. Easily.

I watched 11 on Blu-ray last week and all the positive comments in this thread make me think I should give 12 another chance.

I don't know if I love it, but I like how weird and unconventional it is. I'll definitely take it over the other two movies. My favorite part is either the menacing shot of Andy Garcia playing the piano or the really unconvincing train BRAWL between Clooney and Caan. I also like Topher in this.

"I love er maaaaaaaaan!
....don't leave."

The OMG JULIA!!!!!! scene with Willis and a giggling Roberts that goes on forever does nothing for me, though.
I like the "Just protect your fake baby!" line, but I think that happens before all of the Willis bullshit.

It's definitely my favorite of the three. It really feels like Soderbergh was trying to meld new-wave with a blockbuster type filmmaking and it works for the most part. Holmes score really is fantastic, it's a shame the music that's played while Toulor is showing off his flexibility against infrared wires is not available on the soundtrack.

Every single cast member is better in this than they were in ELEVEN. They all stopped trying so hard, with delightful consequences! Especially, as mentioned, Matt Damon, whose personality in this is a complete 180 from how he was before.

Another funny moment is the revelation that Casey Affleck's planned honeymoon will consist of a vacation to Epcott Centre.

"It's almost like this Kabballah crap DOESN'T EVEN WORK!"

*angrily tears off flimsy Kabballah bracelet*

I don't watch 11 that often, but I do remember that Clooney, Pitt and Damon tried to come off as suave and cool as they possibly could in every scene. I think Damon was the REBEL BADBOY with a bit of tude in that one! In 12 he's a completely awkward little brother type.

"Am I the only one who feels funny about stealing from a....
you know, a handicapped guy?"

"Are you holding a telethon we don't know about?"

So many great one-liners in this. I love how CZJ gets a dig in at Pitt after the gang's unsuccessful heist: "Why would I arrest you? It's not like you stole anything."

And the bickering between Affleck and Caan continues to impress. "I wanna eat your whole head."

Works for me- Julia Roberts was/ is one of the biggest movie stars in the world (even within the Ocean's universe), and the films tell us that Tess looks just like her, so it makes total sense. Of course, if you're just saying Roberts does nothing for you, then point.

The looking like Roberts gag would have worked better without Willis, but it's not a deal breaker. 12 is just a lark from start to finish, but it's a really beautifully shot, fun, and engaging lark, which given the inherently ridiculous nature of the plots of these movies, is the best way to play them. And Cassel meeds to get more exposure, because his version of Toulour is a great villain.

I like Tolour. The guy's such a comic book villain.
He's a rich snob who's ruining lives for acknowledgment as THE BEST THIEF EVER.

Oh and my favorite track is LIFTING THE BUILDING.

He was totally WASTED in 13.

Also, in 13: Damon's dad shows up when fucking ugly-ass Ellen Barkin was in heat and informs her of the "fake" diamonds around Damon's body. Then when they were on the rooftop, Toulour shows up and demands the diamonds around Damon's body. I'm like, "Why does he want the fakes?"

The third film makes no sense whatsoever. And the boys come off like a bunch of assholes. I felt sorry for Pacino and Barkin's characters.

Got the Ocean's boxset for Christmas and was surprised to find that this too was easily my favorite of the series. I just found the whole thing utterly charming. I had a big goofy grin the entire time. Probably one of the few cases of a movie not giving a fuck paying off in a signifiicant way. That said, I can totally see why someone would hate this. The movie is essential a giant fuck you to the audience and an almost parody of the first film. You either admire it or you don't I guess.

I love it. Have you listened to the commentary?