HOW TO TRAIN YOUR DRAGON Post Release Discussion - Page 4

How much was the single-disc version?

I usually wait a couple months and find the double-disc on half.com or amazon for under $15. But my 6 year old daughter (and wife) probably won't let me wait that long for this one.

My inner 6-year-old wasn't going to wait either.

Nooj, it was around $18. Not that much less than the Blu-ray/DVD combo, but I just don't want another disc that I'm not going to watch.

I waited to see DRAGON in the dollar theater...I regret it deeply. Shoulda plunked down full price; I was very suprised & impressed. Exciting, funny, sweet, beautiful to look at, wonderful characters, I could go on and on. Oh, yeah, and my kids kinda liked it too .

As for the TS3/DRAGON comparison, I am reminded somewhat of 2008, when WALL*E and KUNG FU PANDA peacefully coexisted as equally awesome "apples & oranges" films. DRAGON has the more streamlined plot, better music, better action, etc. However, I think I still give TS3 a slight edge, if only because it took beloved characters and dared to push them into some darker places. The story was kind of messy, but at least they were reaching for something different. DRAGON's story is really, at the end of the day, pretty paint-by-numbers (albeit executed VERY well).

Can't wait to get the DVD (sorry no Blu-Ray in the house yet).

It's awesome that Dreamworks has gotten (somewhat) their shit together to go toe-to-toe with Pixar the past couple years. I love PANDA and HOW TO.

I finally saw this on Blu Ray this week, and I can honestly say that the 3D theatrical presentation isn't necessary to fully appreciate the film. I haven't fallen fully in love with a movie this fast since Speed Racer. It's just beautifully written and animated. It managed to find a perfect magical formula that provided something for everybody, and didn't skimp on any of it.

Exactly what I thought. Before the end credits had even finished, I was downloading the soundtrack. In the last two days, "Test Drive" has reached the top of my iPod's Top 25 Most Played. I literally cannot stop listening to it. I'm going to damage my hearing from cranking it up.

I hate to side against Pixar, but I have to come down on the side of this movie. I ordered this from Amazon shortly after downloading the soundtrack, and I'm confident that it will see multiple viewings. I haven't even decided whether to buy Toy Story 3. Although when the inevitable box set hits, I'm sure I'll change that tune.

What was really interesting to me is that I didn't recognize a single voice while the film was playing. When I got to the end credits, I knew every single name.

The voice cast doc was great, by the way. Jay Baruchel in particular seems to be honestly high on this film. His whole "I can quit now, I've made something immortal" attitude was kind of touching.

I actually just canceled my Amazon order for the Toy Story 3 blu-ray, which I only ordered to get a $10 off deal when I ordered the Beauty & The Beast blu-ray (I wonder if they'll charge me the discount back onto my card...).

I just don't see myself rewatching and enjoying Toy Story 3 as much as I did Dragon.

I'm the same. I liked TS3, but there is just something so intriguing to me about Dragon. I watched it 3 times in theatres and have already watched it twice on bluray. I've owned the soundtrack since this film came out and have listened to it religiously.

Hmm...I feel exactly like Greg does on this one, regarding the reference to Speed Racer.

You know, the more I watch this and listen to the score, I really have to applaud everyone involved for resisting the temptation to stick a pop song in there somewhere. Sure, there's the number over the closing credits, but at least that sounds like it belongs. I can only imagine some cheesy song over one of the montages and cringe at what could h ave been.

Which is also funny because, during Hiccup and Astrid's first flight, I couldn't help hearing "A Whole New World" in my head. And, yes, that made me sad for me.

I don't get the absolute adulation this film is getting in some circles. Yes, its excellently put together, etc. And given Toy Story 3's sense of been there, done that feeling, I can see why people are making quality comparisons. But Dave Chen on the /film podcast keeps gushing about this film and besides saying he loved it and it was entertaining, he doesn't really go into why.

Silence!

Oh c'mon. A chorus of agreement can be so boring. Now usually my opinions fall within the typical geek reaction to things, so for me to disagree.... well, I consider it a special occasion.

I could be projecting here, but it feels like people are just so impressed that Dreamworks decided to drop a lot of the horrible cliches of animated features in favor of simplicity and its being treated as something totally fresh.

Silence!

(like the first silence, this one was also a joke)

A chorus of agreement IS boring. And I think it's certainly true that there is some degree of different standards being applied to a Dreamworks movie. But this movie is hitting several of us here (and Dave Chen obviously) in a really sweet geeky spot, and that's not something that's always easy to get across to someone who wasn't struck the same way. As with Greg David, this and Speed Racer hit us in very similar ways.

I said this earlier, but part of what hit me about this film is the sheer gob-smacked amazement that it came from Dreamworks. Expectations were pretty low and they were exceeded by miles.

But it's not simply a case of lowered expectations. There's a joy in this from all involved. It's the gusto with which Gerard Butler delivers his lines. It's the wordless moments between Hiccup and Toothless where you can see the care the animators took in making them characters. It's the silly little throwaway moments like the grin on Astrid's face when Hiccup asks if Toothless caught her. Everything here -- the design, the story, the voice work, the score -- are hitting on a high level.

Ha, I know you're just joking. But even the Speed Racer comparison seems off to me. What I love about Speed Racer is how it smuggles a trippy art film into a (barely) live-action cartoon. Whereas Dragon comes off very much like an homage to Spielberg's early films.

Lowered expectations and surprise that it came from the studio of Shrek might explain some overly positive impressions of the film, but it fails to explain my gut emotional reactions to so much of it. Maybe it's because I'm such a dog person. I don't know. But this movie plays my feelings like a fiddle. It's an expertly-crafted manipulation machine, and it does it with such honesty that it never feels like manipulation. Movies like that don't happen all that often for me, so when I legitimately feel extreme emotion during a film, it makes a strong impression.

Plus, honestly, I didn't even have reduced expectations. I love both Antz and Kung Fu Panda, so I don't have the sneering disdain for Dreamworks Animation that's apparently the accepted attitude.

I think Chris Sanders' sensibilities inform a good chunk of my fondness for it. I'm (no surprise) a big LILO AND STITCH fan. Attention to design, character, comedy, and heart wrapped up in a quirky package/world.

The movie made me its bitch forever by the time it got to the Test Drive sequence. How can one sequence have so many moments that compelled me to weep sweet teardrops of joy?

A few moments...

Toothless' BATMAN moment where he and Hiccup regain control from their freefall. That POOF of the wings, Powell's main theme kicking in, the fear and thrill on Toothless' face!

That early shot of Hiccup gliding Toothless down in one shot from the clouds to sea level. Tingly tingles!

The moment Hiccup sees what's coming and lets go of his cheat sheet and lets the Force flow through him.

The joy on Toothless' face as he burps out a plasma burst to warm his face.

It's one of those "Human bonds with cute animal" movies we've seen bunch of times before, but it's definitely well done. As everyone has said, the flying scenes are great. I liked that DIVE shot from behind Hiccup at the beginning of the "test drive" sequence.

And I give them credit for making a creature with basically a GIANT SNAKE HEAD so cute. My favorite Toothless moment was that weird noise he makes after swallowing a fish that one of the little dragons tried to grab. Some other Toothless highlights: immediately flicking Hiccup aside when he thinks he's been "fixed", his reaction to eel, his screaming when the test drive goes bad.

I also liked the sci fi laser weapon sound that Toothless' fire balls made.

Haha, all this talk of the soundtrack made me realize that the theater I saw this in was SO crappy, the soundtrack barely registered. I'm listening to "Test Drive" online now, and it's pretty sweet.

But yeah, as much as I liked this film, the crazy levels of love for it on this thread are a bit surprising (of course, I AM on a film geek website, so I don't know what else I should be expecting )

Not sure why there are so many people surprised about the "crazy levels of love". People having orgasms with Scott Pilgrim or Inception are okay, but not Dragon?

I'd argue that the very ending of Dragon--specifically, the fact that they were willing to maim Hiccup--is pretty gutsy and pushes the movie up a few notches into something more than by-the-numbers entertainment. That, and its insight into the relationship humans can have with animals.

Having said that, I'm not sre why this has turned into a competition with TS3. They're both great, and they're about as far apart as you can get in a kid's movie--the only link is that they come from rival animation studios.

I appreciate that Dreamworks has staked its claim on new territory that doesn't really compete with Pixar. Pixar goes for depth of story and emotion, and sometimes--not as often as I'd like, but sometimes--pushes for something genuinely new. In service to that mentality, Pixar sometimes seems to adopt a more stripped-down approach, and is willing to ignore the high concept. I mean, Ratatouille is probably my favourite Pixar movie, but on paper, the story sounds utterly stupid.

Dreamworks, meanwhile, is now embracing the high concept, and cranking out movies for budding geeks, which is great. A big part of what made Kung Fu Panda and HTTYD (and to a lesser extent, Monsters vs. Aliens) so much fun is that they were willing to go all the way and pack the movie with stuff that kids would enjoy. Kung Fu Panda is an honest-to-god Kung Fu movie with lots of fight sequences. HTTYD is overstuffed with cool dragon designs. You kind of feel like Pixar wouldn't have prioritized this stuff, and admittedly it's kind of superficial--the movies succeed on their other merits--but boy howdy does it make them a blast to watch.

And I love that Dreamworks has learned the right lessons here--after years of struggling with attempts to rip off Pixar, their biggest successes are original properties.

I'm interested to see what happens with Megamind. Pixar already made "the" original superhero movie, but there's still room to do something a little different and more in keeping with the craziness of comic books. Of course, I have to admit, Megamind doesn't look so hot...it might bring an end to Dreamworks' hot streak. (Uh, not counting Shrek 57 or whatever we were at last summer.)

Another thing is that they didn't go the easy, lazy route and have Toothless be the one good dragon who helps them defeat all the bad dragons. It gives the end a lot more meaning, because the Vikings aren't just accepting one dragon who's not like all the rest, they're accepting all of them.

HTTYD is an adapted property, not original to DWA. I forget the author's name, but it is a series of books.

I've read the first three, casually. The movie bears so very slight a resemblance to the books as to pretty much be its own property.

IIRC, didn't Dreamworks toss the original book Shrek was adapted from out the window when they made that?

Pitching in at an odd time -- but I haven't watched this film once without marveling over its set design. They didn't even fudge the design of the Viking houses, or the detail on the tapestries. That gold dragon hanging over Stoick's hall is exactly the crude stuff you find at the British Museum. I love it.

And I also love Butler's voice, and the fact that they actually animated his real life overbite.

All right. The thread has reached critical mass for me; despite not really loving digitally animated films (sue me), I'm willing to give this one a try. When I have the daughters next weekend, we'll give this one a spin.

(I loved Ratatouille, UP and the Incredibles, but most digital animation leaves me cold. Now that textures and lighting are starting to be more complex, I'm more open to it, but for me, it's very crispness and fluid motion often take me OUT of the movie. I still really prefer well-done 2D animation.)

I would prefer to have both, but that choice has pretty much been taken away from us, sadly. The mediocrity of The Princess and the Frog didn't help matters.

I rewatched this a few days ago while making dinner and it holds up shockingly well. The flight scenes are genuinely rousing and perfectly put together. It is in those moments where the film feels most alive. I still think the movie could go into some truly interesting and exciting places but instead plays it safe in order to provide a (somewhat unearned) pat ending. But by and large it is an excellent film.

Huh. I watched PATF with my daughters - both in their early teens - and really enjoyed it. A lot funnier and less girly than I expected. I mean, it wasn't groundbreaking or anything, but I thought it was solidly entertaining.

YMMV and all that, I guess.

I watched Princess and the Frog with a few friends. I was really excited to see it, but more for the 'glorious return of hand-drawn animation.' The film itself was ok. I didn't love it. It felt so much like the animated Disney musicals of the 90s that it felt stagnant.

Though, I would bet I'd appreciate it a lot more if I could enjoy it with my own kids.

If The Secret of Kells had taken the animated feature Oscar (and much as I love UP, I think Kells should've gotten it) we probably would see a handful more traditionally animated films coming.

Oh, I didn't hate it or anything. I enjoyed it on a basic level while I was watching it. But as it was supposed to be the triumphant return of traditional animation, it needed to be a home run. As it is, I don't think we're about to see a flood of new cel animated films in its wake.

The main thing we seem to be seeing in the wake of The Princess and The Frog's so-so box-office performance is Disney trying to downplay the 'overtly' girly stuff and sell to the boys. It seems like that's the ONLY lesson they learned.

Rapunzel ---> Tangled

I don't think The Secret of the Kells winning the Best Animated Feature Oscar would've led to any noticeable increase in the amount of traditionally animated features. More traditionally animated short films, maybe. Only if it had made the oodles of money that UP made... and not really even then. I think from the standpoint of a studio making a business decision, traditional animation just doesn't make much sense.

Fairly or not, traditional animation is now seen as risky. Even if a hand-drawn film did make as much money as a typical Pixar film, it wouldn't jump-start the medium again. It would take a track record of several films to do that. And since studios don't want to risk greenlighting those films, it's probably not going to happen. Traditional animation is probably relegated to the left field productions like Persepolis for the foreseeable future.

I think Brad Bird once said it best. You can get fairly "presentable" work from mediocre talent with computer animation that would just look embarrassing with traditional animation.

For the money people, I'll bet it just looks so much more convenient making them think it's cheaper (even when it's not necessarily true). PRESS THAT BUTTON AND MAKE IT HAPPEN! I know I've read VFX people complaining about directors and producers who feel exactly the same way about the visual FX work.

Just listened to the commentary on the movie featuring Sanders, DeBlois, and Bonnie Arnold (the producer). A solid commentary.

Some interesting info I got out of it:

-Hiccup waking up to find his foot missing was originally a private moment for the character. The suggestion to have Toothless be the one to wake him up and share that moment was given by Spielberg after he saw an early version of the film. He felt that the original approach to the ending ended up sidelining the love we had for the bond between the two and made it a mere "boy and his horse" thing.

-The filmmakers were very nervous about how the fate of Hiccup's foot would play. They, obviously, loved the development but were afraid of how people would react to it. What ended up happening was that it went over so positively in their early test screenings that audience members actively rooted for it to be kept. The filmmakers sensed that the audience knew that it was something that could be taken out and were touched by their support of the scene.

-I was wrong about the designer for Toothless. It wasn't Chris Sanders. But the designer for Toothless was different from the designer who worked on the other dragon (as well as the human characters).

My son dressed up for Hiccup for Halloween. It was awesome.

Yeah I watched it with the commentary and the trivia track at the same time the day after I bought it. Fun stuff.

I wouldn't say that this tops Toy Story 3, but it's surprisingly equal to it. Aside from a couple of story issues I had (the romance between Astrid and Hiccup is rushed if sweet, and the other Viking teens are pretty one-note), this is definitely an animation highlight of the year with its excellent visuals, killer music and quite good voice acting.

I wish I'd seen this in all 3 Ds but instead I just watched it twice in a week in 2 Ds each so by my math that makes it 7 and a half Ds.

 

For me it's a really enjoyable kids' movie that more than makes up in pure exhuberance and wonder what it lacks in a tightly plotted story or polished design. I loved the downbeat note on the optimistic ending too. For the most part the story felt very short on stakes but showing what Hiccup had lost at the end helped give it a little weight.

 

This is also now my favourite Gerard Butler role.

Do you have kids Bucho?  

 

If so are you taking them to the Live HtTYD event at Vector?

 

I'm still mulling it over as flights to Aucks plus tickets make it a fairly pricey treat for the nipper.

I don't yet Baino, but I'll probably trundle along with a niece and nephew if I can save up a few pennies. It really is more than just a drop in the bucket even when you live in the same town.