New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Spartan (2004)

post #1 of 64
3/29/10 at 2:21pm
Thread Starter 
What a great little movie this is. I remember liking it upon its original release but I watched it again over the weekend and really enjoyed it. I loved how everybody was talking in code for 85% of the running time but the movie never stops to explain any of it. I also like sniped Luke. Val Kilmer was really really good here...it's almost a shame his career has gone all Steven Segal in the last 5 or 6 years, I wish another strong writer/director would put him in another starring role.
Reply
post #2 of 64
3/29/10 at 2:22pm
Love it to pieces. One of my favorite Mamet's.-
Reply
post #3 of 64
3/29/10 at 2:28pm
I *love* this. I try to get all my friends to see it. Whenever I get paranoid about being followed, I say Kilmer's little matra to myself:


"In a city always a reflection, in the forest always a sound"

I now feel more at ease because I feel that I have greater situational awareness

EDIT: And thanks in no small part to this film, thus far at least I've stayed clear of deserts
Reply
post #4 of 64
3/29/10 at 2:29pm
I kind of want to rewatch this with Mamet's SCREENWRITER'S MANIFESTO fresh in my mind.
Reply
post #5 of 64
3/29/10 at 2:30pm
I also love how we don't even know it's the President's daughter we're looking for for the first hour. It's just "the girl".
Reply
post #6 of 64
3/29/10 at 2:56pm
Spartan's greatest assets lie in its tight pacing and plotting; it moves, and almost never stops, riding on a wave of tension from start to finish. The best word I'd use to describe it is "compact". Considering how broadly the narrative spans the globe, from Boston to Dubai, everything about the film feels microscopic and incredibly intimate, which I mean as a compliment. Val Kilmer's excellent here, focused and precise and endlessly badass and resourceful.
Reply
post #7 of 64
3/29/10 at 3:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by agracru View Post
Spartan's greatest assets lie in its tight pacing and plotting; it moves, and almost never stops, riding on a wave of tension from start to finish. The best word I'd use to describe it is "compact". Considering how broadly the narrative spans the globe, from Boston to Dubai, everything about the film feels microscopic and incredibly intimate, which I mean as a compliment. Val Kilmer's excellent here, focused and precise and endlessly badass and resourceful.
He is so cool in this film that it makes me fell really sad that in the years since he's essentially descended into DT-DVD hell
Reply
post #8 of 64
3/29/10 at 3:12pm
My favorite scenes take part in that basement or whatever they use for headquarters. Kilmer, Macy, O'Neil and Clark Gregg have some great scenes there.
Reply
post #9 of 64
3/29/10 at 3:32pm
Thread Starter 
The scenes are set up so well. I love when O'Neill pulls him aside and tells him about the plan involving the death-row inmate, and you wonder why he makes it a point to tell him that. Then in the scene where Kilmer blows the inmate away you realize O'Neill wanted to make the point that the inmate was disposable. So good.
Reply
post #10 of 64
3/29/10 at 4:03pm
One of the best movies of the 00s. No bullshit, no concessions made to the audience, and yet it's still entertaining and easy to follow. Other movies should take notes. Val Kilmer gives an exquisite performance, and gets to call someone "a stone-cold whoremaster". This is the character that should have had a franchise, not Jason Bourne.
Reply
post #11 of 64
3/29/10 at 4:04pm
I'd watch the shit out of the sequels.
Reply
post #12 of 64
3/29/10 at 4:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob loblaw View Post
The scenes are set up so well. I love when O'Neill pulls him aside and tells him about the plan involving the death-row inmate, and you wonder why he makes it a point to tell him that. Then in the scene where Kilmer blows the inmate away you realize O'Neill wanted to make the point that the inmate was disposable. So good.
I love the way Kilmer chugs the beer with that pained look on his face before he does it
Reply
post #13 of 64
3/29/10 at 5:11pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul McCartney View Post
One of the best movies of the 00s. No bullshit, no concessions made to the audience, and yet it's still entertaining and easy to follow. Other movies should take notes. Val Kilmer gives an exquisite performance, and gets to call someone "a stone-cold whoremaster". This is the character that should have had a franchise, not Jason Bourne.
Yup, totally agree. The whoremaster line was good. Not taking anything away from Bourne, but I would definately watch the further adventures of the sleek and bearded Kilmer we get at the end of Spartan.
Reply
post #14 of 64
3/29/10 at 5:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul McCartney View Post
One of the best movies of the 00s. No bullshit, no concessions made to the audience, and yet it's still entertaining and easy to follow. Other movies should take notes.
That's what I loved the most about this movie. No pauses for explicit introductions or character descriptions, no unnatural repetition of characters' names, and no wasted exposition to spell things out or catch the audience up on what's happening. A real fly-on-the-wall sort of movie-going experience. Mamet's got the skill to do this without losing his audience. In lesser hands, it would have been a mess.
Reply
post #15 of 64
3/29/10 at 6:12pm
One of the best scenes of the 00s: Kilmer's "Why's thu tv on??" BLACK OPS rambling.
Reply
post #16 of 64
3/29/10 at 6:14pm
I also really like the scene where Kilmer talks about where he got his knife

PS I'm going to watch Mamet's HOMOCIDE for the first time tonight!
Reply
post #17 of 64
3/29/10 at 6:15pm
one of the best lines of the 00s:

YOU NEED TO SET YOUR MOTHERFUCKER TO RECEIVE
Reply
post #18 of 64
3/29/10 at 6:16pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Princess Kate View Post
I also really like the scene where Kilmer talks about where he got his knife

PS I'm going to watch Mamet's HOMOCIDE for the first time tonight!
Does David Mamet hate gay people?
Reply
post #19 of 64
3/29/10 at 8:25pm
Other glorious lines:

"I'm entitled to a lawyer!"
"YOU'RE ENTITLED TO SHIT!"

And Val's sensitive delivery of:

"Are you a fag, my friend?"
Reply
post #20 of 64
3/29/10 at 8:29pm
Not to be that guy, but just because we had some great discussion in this SPARTAN thread.
Reply
post #21 of 64
3/29/10 at 8:31pm
I've always liked the emphasis Kilmer put on "WAS IT MORE FUN THAN MINIATURE GOLF?????"
Like it's a Devastating put-down or something.
Reply
post #22 of 64
3/29/10 at 9:48pm
Dude, what are you talking about? It's the ultimate burn.
Reply
post #23 of 64
3/29/10 at 10:03pm
A miniature golf insult would make me laugh.
"Do I need to know that? If I want camaraderie, I'll join the Masons." after a friendly introduction would cut me deeper!
Reply
post #24 of 64
3/30/10 at 3:08am
Great movie--was a part of the Great Austin CHUD Day of 2004--but oddly enough the thing that has stuck with me the most about this movie is when Kilmer and his rookie partner are interrogating the guy outside the nightclub. Kilmer breaks his arm, the guy still won't give anything up, and Kilmer takes out his knife and hands it to the rookie.

Kilmer: "Take out his eye."
*Rookie hesitates, gives a "Are you serious?" look to Kilmer*
Kilmer: "You bet your life."

I was already involved, but after that moment I was HOOKED.
Reply
post #25 of 64
3/30/10 at 3:11am
"Sorry my man, I am travelling light."

Boom!

Hard to believe, Val Kilmer is doing DTV now.
Reply
post #26 of 64
3/30/10 at 3:12am
I always liked when he's on the phone trying to get in touch with the guy who'll send him to Dubia, and he says:

"Let me speak to the Chinaman. You tell him the only man ever heard call on Jesus." And then later when he's talking to the actual guy, and he get's him to cut him a deal, and the guy says:

"Okay. But it's only because you are the only man ever heard me call on Jesus."

Like, you don't know what these two's history is, but fro that little bit you can infer that some heavy shit went down. So good.

Oh, and Mamet's Homicide is a must see.
Reply
post #27 of 64
3/30/10 at 3:20am
Great film with another great Val Kilmer performance.

Other Kilmer films to track down.

Thunderheart
Felon
Reply
post #28 of 64
3/30/10 at 8:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Clark View Post
Kilmer: "Take out his eye."
*Rookie hesitates, gives a "Are you serious?" look to Kilmer*
Kilmer: "You bet your life."

I was already involved, but after that moment I was HOOKED.
Yepyepyep. Exactly my thoughts. Great scene.
Reply
post #29 of 64
3/30/10 at 9:09am
Not my favourite Mamet, but definitely up there. Only Michael Mann gets close to his love of machismo.
Reply
post #30 of 64
3/30/10 at 3:05pm
Excellent movie, and my first Mamet. People ought to give Kilmer better material. Why is he wasting time in shit like Mindhunters and whatever DTV crap he's in now when he has Spartan and Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang on his resume?
Reply
post #31 of 64
3/30/10 at 3:08pm
Because Spartan and Kiss Kiss Bang Bang are two good movies that didn't any money.
Reply
post #32 of 64
3/30/10 at 3:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Thomas View Post
Yepyepyep. Exactly my thoughts. Great scene.
I liked the part with the fractured arm. It was just so twisted and after that moment you felt that Kilmer was capable of anything
Reply
post #33 of 64
3/30/10 at 4:49pm
Love the film, it's an annual watch for me, but Mamet can't quite pull off the last third. Having Macy as the big villain is just a bit of weak sauce. I think it's the one instance where his casting hurts a film. He's great as always, but watching it the first time you know he's going to pop up at the end because for the first 2/3 of the film he's in about 5 minutes.
Reply
post #34 of 64
3/30/10 at 4:50pm
I don't think he was the "big villain". They made a mistake, she disappeared and she served better purposes dead. So they were trying to secure that outcome. But it's not like they planned her abduction from the get go.
Reply
post #35 of 64
3/30/10 at 7:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tati View Post
I don't think he was the "big villain". They made a mistake, she disappeared and she served better purposes dead. So they were trying to secure that outcome. But it's not like they planned her abduction from the get go.
I think it's just that with that reveal, the film dips into becoming a traditional thriller. For me it loses that *something* that the rest of the film has. Not that it's bad, I just think it's a bit of an underwhelming way to end. I do like the little coda though.
Reply
post #36 of 64
3/31/10 at 2:15am
It's worth having Macy play that role though, just for that awesome look on his face as he's going down after Kilmer slashes his throat.
Reply
post #37 of 64
4/1/10 at 7:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by James View Post
but watching it the first time you know he's going to pop up at the end because for the first 2/3 of the film he's in about 5 minutes.
Plus he gives Scott a dirty look when they are in the basement office at the start.

Spartan great espionage thriller just love the way everything is short & sharp(no overlong set-pieces).

Great dialogue aswell.

"Don't you teach 'em knife fighting. Teach 'em to kill. That way, they meet some sonofabitch who studied knife fighting, they send his soul to hell."
Reply
post #38 of 64
4/1/10 at 7:40am
I can only add to the love fest.

One thing that deserseves being pointed out is the fact that this movie stays pretty much with Kilmer all the time. Thereby it is pretty much focused on the rogue operative aspect and does not cut away to give you your standard thriller fare about corrupt politicals or whatever. I love the fact that the abduction, while resolved at the end, has taken an absolute back seat including the implications of it. It reminds me a lot of Ronin in that respect, another movie I love to death.
Reply
post #39 of 64
4/1/10 at 8:28am
"You had to put on your THINKING CAP!" And so many more.
Reply
post #40 of 64
4/1/10 at 12:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z.Vasquez View Post
Let me speak to the Chinaman
Who turns out to be some Arabic dude. "You got to get me to the tall corn!"
Reply
post #41 of 64
4/1/10 at 12:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by EchoBase View Post
Who turns out to be some Arabic dude. "You got to get me to the tall corn!"
I always assumed he was Israeli because of the Jesus line.
Reply
post #42 of 64
4/1/10 at 1:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daughters View Post
"Don't you teach 'em knife fighting. Teach 'em to kill. That way, they meet some sonofabitch who studied knife fighting, they send his soul to hell."
Absolutely LOVE this line.
Reply
post #43 of 64
4/1/10 at 2:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by EchoBase View Post
Who turns out to be some Arabic dude. "You got to get me to the tall corn!"
Heh. Of course, looking at the stuff in his shop, he sells Chinese shit.

And..."You had your whole life to prepare for this moment. Why aren't you ready?"
Reply
post #44 of 64
4/1/10 at 3:38pm
I was pretty young and naive the first time I saw this movie. The moment I knew it was playing for keeps was when Derek Luke dies, and I was transfixed.
Reply
post #45 of 64
4/1/10 at 3:53pm
This also has one of the best 'guy roughs up a frail old lady' scenes ever.

"You're gonna leave your life or the information IN THIS ROOM."
Reply
post #46 of 64
4/2/10 at 1:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disciple_72 View Post
one of the best lines of the 00s:

YOU NEED TO SET YOUR MOTHERFUCKER TO RECEIVE
Yes! sogood. Kilmer is on fire in this one.

The demise of Derek Luke was a major holy shit moment.

And only Mamet could have William H. Macy be the final villain in a movie. Thinking cap, indeed.

Spartan should qualify as a CHUD Essential.
Reply
post #47 of 64
4/2/10 at 3:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zollicoffer View Post
And only Mamet could have William H. Macy be the final villain in a movie. Thinking cap, indeed.
And the way he is taken out is so quick yet spot on. Most movies would have some kind of long shoot out and fight sequence. Normally I like that formula but here it just wouldn't work. I guy like him is trained to kill quickly and move on. Makes the whole thing feel so much more real yet still satisfying.
Reply
post #48 of 64
4/5/10 at 9:18am
I enjoy Spartan very much, but my beef is always that Kilmer's character so quickly falls for the staged drowning despite the fact this guy has clearly been around the block many times and it's pretty clear something else went down. Great job by Kilmer, though, and a sequel would be welcome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Daywalker View Post
Great film with another great Val Kilmer performance.

Other Kilmer films to track down.

Thunderheart
Felon
Good calls JD. Thunderheart is great, but Felon is the surprise Kilmer flick. Really solid with gutsy work by Dorff and Kilmer nailing a role he hasn't done before, the prison Don. Even Harold Perrineau has a role deeper than first appears. The guy's not a simple sadist, he wants payback that isn't there. "An Innocent Man" done right. It's this film that makes me wonder if there are other quality DTV Kilmer films out there.
Reply
post #49 of 64
4/5/10 at 11:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Subotai View Post
I enjoy Spartan very much, but my beef is always that Kilmer's character so quickly falls for the staged drowning despite the fact this guy has clearly been around the block many times and it's pretty clear something else went down.
It's not that he does or doesn't fall for the staged drowning. The point is that he's told the mission is over and that's it. It's the lynchpin for everything else in the movie because that's when Curtis convinces him to go back to the beach house, and when Curtis gets capped is when Mamet starts to reveal what he's up to thematically. Scott's a smart guy and maybe he wouldn't buy the story, but the whole point is that he doesn't ask the question.
Reply
post #50 of 64
4/5/10 at 12:16pm
He buys it. "How do you fake the DNA?" You're right, Scott's loyal and he doesn't question, but a guy who has lived successfully in that world would have a minimum level of paranoia in order to survive. I can buy him guessing something is fishy and whether or not he would act on the knowledge is something else altogether; but in the bar scene he buys the cover story.

Back in the day I read the script, and IIRC there was a little more suspicion apparent. For example, when Curtis goes to meet Scott where he lives, Scott has Curtis show his hands first, considering the possibility Curtis might be there to whack him.
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Films in Release or On Video