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Spartan (2004) - Page 2

post #51 of 64
4/5/10 at 1:47pm
Just popped this in again Friday night. Just about a perfect intelligent little spy thriller. I loved the drugged-out Curtis trying to tell Scott that he saw the girl's trademark "%)" symbol on the window at the beach house.

Curtis: I saw the sign.
Scott: Then are truly blessed.
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post #52 of 64
4/5/10 at 2:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Subotai View Post
He buys it. "How do you fake the DNA?" You're right, Scott's loyal and he doesn't question, but a guy who has lived successfully in that world would have a minimum level of paranoia in order to survive. I can buy him guessing something is fishy and whether or not he would act on the knowledge is something else altogether; but in the bar scene he buys the cover story.
Maybe, but I still think it's more that he's unwilling to question the orders he's given beyond face value. It's not so much that he's loyal, but that he's the ultimate worker bee. I'll admit it's maybe not "realistic," but that's Mamet.
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post #53 of 64
4/5/10 at 4:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Banks is my hero View Post
Maybe, but I still think it's more that he's unwilling to question the orders he's given beyond face value. It's not so much that he's loyal, but that he's the ultimate worker bee. I'll admit it's maybe not "realistic," but that's Mamet.
The way I see it is that it's not whether or not he's willing to question orders or not - he does make that choice eventually - it's that the possibility of a mop-up never seems to strike him until Curtis gets popped.
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post #54 of 64
4/5/10 at 5:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Banks is my hero View Post
Maybe, but I still think it's more that he's unwilling to question the orders he's given beyond face value. It's not so much that he's loyal, but that he's the ultimate worker bee. I'll admit it's maybe not "realistic," but that's Mamet.
"They don't go through the door, we don't ask why. That's not a cost, it's benefit."
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post #55 of 64
4/5/10 at 6:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by neoolong View Post
"They don't go through the door, we don't ask why. That's not a cost, it's benefit."
Yeah, I think Mamet makes it pretty clear that Scott's focus is the mission. The whats and hows, not the whys. The decision to trust Curtis and follow up once the mission was declared over struck me as a real departure from what Scott is used to doing. It's a real turning point in the movie. He's not some renegade agent willing to disregard orders because he has a "hunch" or ideals he won't compromise. Look at the deference he pays to his higher-ups in his scenes with Clark Gregg, Ed O'Neill, and the commanding officer during the pre-mission briefing. Like Banks said, he's a worker bee. Give him the mission and he'll get it done, unless you call off the mission. It takes Curtis and the girl's "surrogate" mom/Secret Service agent to convince him that his mission didn't end just because the president's handlers called it off.
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post #56 of 64
4/5/10 at 8:28pm
Scott doesn't even realize he had a mission until the surrogate mom talks to him. Actually, he takes to it pretty quickly once she talks to him. But the fact that he doesn't even consider the boat accident is a setup requires more disbelief than I can suspend.
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post #57 of 64
4/5/10 at 8:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Subotai View Post
Scott doesn't even realize he had a mission until the surrogate mom talks to him. Actually, he takes to it pretty quickly once she talks to him. But the fact that he doesn't even consider the boat accident is a setup requires more disbelief than I can suspend.
Then I guess you could say it's much like the girl's wallet in TRAINING DAY. Maybe it's a bit of a leap, but it makes perfect sense thematically.

But again, Mamet works like that. Characters don't know anymore than they're supposed to in service of plot and thematic development.
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post #58 of 64
4/5/10 at 9:02pm
It's not really about the plot, it's about his character. Scott lives in a world ruled by paranoia and dirty tricks. I don't expect him to do anything about the staged death, he is a 'worker bee', but I would expect him to know something's not kosher the second he sees the news report.
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post #59 of 64
4/20/10 at 10:35am
Just rewatched this last week on the recommendation of this thread and all the kind words everyone has for it. Very good movie, and I'd gladly watch a sequel if Kilmer would drop 40 pounds to do so. A kickass sequel with Val and his handler Al Bundy.

The only major misstep is that Mamet got Kristen Bell to take her top off and failed to show us the goods.
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post #60 of 64
4/20/10 at 10:52am
There's something missing from SPARTAN. It's a well-made movie and I've watched my DVD a few times, but every time it ends I think 'there's something missing'. The writing, acting, directing, etc. are all solid, but there's just not that extra spark to elevate this to me. COLLATERAL has its vibe and RONIN has its cast and locales and car chases, but there's something missing from SPARTAN. Never could figure out what it was, since the film isn't bad, just not over-the-top.
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post #61 of 64
4/20/10 at 11:58pm
Ya know what's funny, is that this had both Ed O'Neil, aka Al Bundy, and the actor who played the Al Bundy ripoff in Happily Ever After. Wish they had had a scene together.
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post #62 of 64
4/21/10 at 12:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetManX View Post
There's something missing from SPARTAN. It's a well-made movie and I've watched my DVD a few times, but every time it ends I think 'there's something missing'. The writing, acting, directing, etc. are all solid, but there's just not that extra spark to elevate this to me. COLLATERAL has its vibe and RONIN has its cast and locales and car chases, but there's something missing from SPARTAN. Never could figure out what it was, since the film isn't bad, just not over-the-top.
I think it's missing a really great finale. I mean the one given is good and I have little complaint. But there isn't one where he goes all out and kills off all the bad guys with his bare hands and the film ends with every bad guy getting their due. I understand why, and it's okay.
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post #63 of 64
4/21/10 at 2:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Subotai View Post
Scott doesn't even realize he had a mission until the surrogate mom talks to him. Actually, he takes to it pretty quickly once she talks to him. But the fact that he doesn't even consider the boat accident is a setup requires more disbelief than I can suspend.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Subotai View Post
It's not really about the plot, it's about his character. Scott lives in a world ruled by paranoia and dirty tricks. I don't expect him to do anything about the staged death, he is a 'worker bee', but I would expect him to know something's not kosher the second he sees the news report.
Maybe deep down he suspects something, maybe he doesn't. The point is that he's supposed to toe the company line no matter what he thinks and that's what he does until something really drastic happens to change things. That is a character thing. That's part of the character's arc in the film.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JetManX View Post
There's something missing from SPARTAN. It's a well-made movie and I've watched my DVD a few times, but every time it ends I think 'there's something missing'. The writing, acting, directing, etc. are all solid, but there's just not that extra spark to elevate this to me. COLLATERAL has its vibe and RONIN has its cast and locales and car chases, but there's something missing from SPARTAN. Never could figure out what it was, since the film isn't bad, just not over-the-top.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radb707 View Post
I think it's missing a really great finale. I mean the one given is good and I have little complaint. But there isn't one where he goes all out and kills off all the bad guys with his bare hands and the film ends with every bad guy getting their due. I understand why, and it's okay.
That would ruin the movie. There's nothing missing.
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post #64 of 64
4/21/10 at 9:37pm
Yeah, I hadn't watched this in a good while before that post. Today I went back and watched it after so many years.

I was totally wrong. There's nothing missing. I think I just wish there was more of it. Yes, I think that's it. I just wanted to watch more of this movie. I might have thought there was something emotional missing...but...it's minuscule in comparison to how I just wanted to watch some more because it's awesome.
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