Obama appeases all the "drill baby drill" Goopers - Page 14

I'm not sure that constitutes evidence that "aid" was offered and rejected out of hand. In other words, was aid offered or was commerce offered, as you have defined them? Was aid rejected for not being appropriate or suitable for the problem? In other words, this whole "aid was offered in May and was rejected" is not supported by that quote, and it's not supported by anything I've seen. If evidence exists I'd like to see it.

I'll cede the 65 foot rule / trust fund issue only because I don't have time to research it but I will tell you that on the surface, it sounds like a talking point or half-truth.

OK, I'm going to explain this one more time, slowly, since this is the 3rd (THIRD) time I've had to reiterate this.

After the explosion, the international community offered aid to the United States Government to help with the disaster. The aid that Britain, Canada, Croatia, France, Germany, Ireland, Mexico, the Netherlands, Norway, Romania, South Korea, Spain, Sweden and the United Nations offered included experts in various aspects of oil spill impacts, research and technical expertise, booms, chemical oil dispersants, oil pumps, skimmers, and wildlife treatment. This was May, AFTER the rig sunk and the oil was leaking and the scientists from NOAA believed the well to be leaking upto 110,000 barrels per day barrels a day. The State Department (read: government) rejected those offers of aid at that time. Later on in the month, as BP was running out of boom they (BP) opted to BUY boom from some of the countries that offered to sell boom.. the government is now (June 30th) trying to pass that off as "aid" instead of the correct definition, which is commerce. Now, real aid was actually accepted sometime in June (skimmers) but it was very minimal and very limited in scope compared to the actual amount of coast that is being impacted and the amount of oil that is gushing into our waters.

Now, if you go back to the post you were replying to and clicked on the links you would see (if you read them) the exact countries that I pasted and the exact type of aid that was offered (as I also pasted that from the links). As I said, the State Department removed the chart that outlined the timeline and the times of 'aid' that was given because it poked holes in the branding of this disaster.

Now, I assume you trust the liberally biased MediaMatters website, since it is liberally biased and that is all you read. So here is a link to their website and if you click on the 'chart' you will see it has been scrubbed from the state department website.

Quote from the mediamatters website, you see how they added that reimbursement would be required? That is commerce, not aid. Now, I know your going to try and say there were 24 foreign vessels operating in the region! ... that is very ambiguous. Some BP vessels are flagged as foreign vessels not to mention the boom that had to be delivered came from other foreign flagged vessels... it might even surprise you to learn that the Carnival Cruise ships are also foreign flagged... that means just about nothing... The question that reporters have asked and the State Department has failed to answer is which ships from which countries and to what capacity are they helping. The chart that was linked gave a clear picture... and it's gone.

Keep in mind, the explosion was Apr 22. It's not a matter of did the government at any point accept aid, it was when it was offered vs when it was accepted and the impact to our environment that occurred during the gap.

And, as a right-leaning guy, commerce is...bad....because....government should be....big?

And I'm going to ask for the second time. Focus on the above passage and please post a link with evidence of this. Thanks.

It is pretty known that these nations did offer aid pretty quickly after the explosion.

http://www.swedishwire.com/politics/...-up-oil-spill-

and a link I'm sure you'll never click

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/05/06/nations-offering-oil-aid-dont/

But remember, immediately after the explosion, BP was downplaying how serious things were and said they had it under control. Why would the US accept aid for a situation that seemed to be in hand?

That's a poor argument Richard, because the articles I posted are 16 days after the fact. By that time, we already knew it was a serious issue. In fact, we knew on April 24th, via Rear Admiral Mary Landry of the U.S. Coastguard that, "This is a very serious spill, absolutely."

Neither the Swedish link nor the one you were sure I wouldn't click have a smoking gun. The State Dept. says it's evaluating the offers to not double up on what they don't already have domestically.

My point is that there's plenty to be pissed off about vis a vis the oil gusher, like the unprecedented use of carcinogen dispersant, the lack of national guard and emergency workers protecting the beaches, etc.. I don't see the point in beating a dead horse that seems to be based on a lot of innuendo and lack of facts.

All I'm saying is that offers were made. Whether or not they were needed is a different issue, one that I guess you have with Snaieke. I was just responding to your quote.

But you see my point as well, don't you?

I don't think we are in disagreement yt.

Artificial islands already failing.

Meanwhile, has Bobby Jindal called out the National Guard yet?

If McCain were president, the power of his 72 year old johnson would prop up the artificial islands.

END OF THE SPILL?

Or the beginning of the end?

BP now claims spill has "stopped". Everything I've read and seen on TV has said that this cap thing they are trying is extremely risky, and that they should just use it to funnell oil to the surface instead. The speculation is that they don't wnat to do that because we'd finally get an accurate count on how much is spilling, and therefore how much money they'd owe in fines

LOL.

That they'd risk shattering the well or even the sea floor to indemnify themselves is pathological. If true, I hope they're stopped before putting the final nail in the Gulf's coffin.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/07/18/gul...ex.html?hpt=T1

Government says leak detected 'a distance from' oil well. This is not good... that would mean it is seeping out of the seabed, not the wellhead. There isn't too much reported on this though, so it could have been a 'burp' or stopped all together.

The capping process was supposed to be for 48 hours and rise to between 8000-9000 PSI... it's now well past the 48 hour mark and it's nowhere near that range. Last indicators were that it was at 67xx PSI and increasing at 2 PSI an hour. One theory (by a scientist) is that the well has depleted considerably and that is why there is a low PSI.. Now, if that were the case any readings would give BP a huge benefit on paying off damages. Keep in mind, they had a good idea of what the pressure should be back in mid-June when they tried to top kill and it was too intense for that to work.. this drastic of a drop off is very odd. I'm sure there will be more news tomorrow, hopefully all good.

http://www.floridaoilspilllaw.com/cb...-blowout-video

Well, nothing good happened today. According to that page, the government and BP are butting heads on what to do next. I read somewhere else that BP wasn't telling the feds about leaks and it was the feds own ships that picked up on them. So... is BP trying to pull one over on the fed?

I guess since they have all the equipment staged, they want to get as much data as possible before pulling the cap test but... this could end very badly.

If only John McCain were President. Then he could sit BP down and the Government down and say "Stop the bullshit." After that, he could sit the Oil Spill down and the wildlife in the Gulf down and say, "Stop the bullshit." And then everyone would get ponies.

Everything I've read points to the government possibly wanting to get the cap off again because of fear of some dangerous leaks/seepage (I forget all the details of what I read, but it was something along the lines of them needing to possibly perform more tests that might require the cap coming off). And of course BP is fighting that (even if it's the best thing in the long run) because they don't want to lose the momentum they feel they've "gained"* in public opinion by capping the well. They don't want that video to start up again.



*At least in this region, it's fucking LAUGHABLE that they thing ANYTHING gets them good publicity at this point. We really couldn't give a shit that they finally stopped the oil. At least not in terms of, "hey, those BP assholes aren't so bad after all." The hate and ire towards that company is going to flow for a long, long time.

Remind me why the Obama Administration thought it was a simply capital idea to leave these utterly evil fucks in charge of their own clean up again???

BP admits to doctored oil spill photo


...but wait, I know you want more...

BP-Libya papers set to be released

I know all the details aren't known, but seriously, are they physically incapable of not being evil?

That doctored image is doubly stupid because what does it really accomplish? I wouldn't look at the unaltered one and say "hey, assholes! You're slacking!"

All it does is expose them for "cheating" in order to get public sympathy (or feebly attempt to, anyway). And if they'll cheat on that...

Not going to fix everything, but it's a nice gesture of support/solidarity nonetheless.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_656152.html



That said, there's already a chorus of people pissing and moaning about the President supporting our local economy and (hopefully) drawing positive attention to our area as a vacation destination.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38429966...s-environment/


Lovely.

Maybe this really is the apocalypse. I better get right with God, but quick...

Honestly, if this doesn't wake the US up to the fact that an alternative to it's reliance on oil needs to be worked towards (and not in an empty platitude, pie-in-the-sky way, actually worked towards with timelines and goals in a concrete fashion), then fucking nothing will. Nothing.

Between, foreign disasters that have fucked the middle east and thanks to blowback, the rest of the west, to the complete fucking of it's own environment, oil is quite literally becoming the bane of Americas existence. The feet of clay the entire hyperpower rests on.

Seriously when the fuck is enough enough? It's like the nation state equivalent of a room full of fucking junkies slowly dying.

Sorry, this shit just fucking infuriates me. Shit like this is why I'm so fucking misanthropic.

$5/gallon gasoline sure as fuck will. Carbon tax now!

My Dad just sent me this email:
He lived on the northern Gulf coast of Florida for many years and has told me stories about canoeing far out into the waters to be surrounded by jellyfish, sharks and dolphins. Amazing how fucking brainwashed one can become. Seriously, who would defend the spill, even just a little bit?

To be fair, I don't think he's defending the spill. And if bacteria are cleaning up the spill naturally, awesome. But to declare "NATURE SOLVED PROBLEM, CASE CLOSED" is incredibly simplistic, and as usual the bias at play taints everything.

You may want to ask him what he thinks about the disappearing photoplankton.

My previous political interactions with him (we have the same faith but polar opposite political views which just makes for STELLAR family relations) might have tainted my initial reaction to it. Rereading it, it doesn't sound too bad. And to be fair, I emailed him back with some stuff about the bacteria creating hypoxic dead zones etc and he ceded the point.

It's so ridiculous and farcical that something as apolitical as a fucking oil spill is just another political football in the US right now.
(not saying you and your Dad are ridiculous Ryan but you know what I mean)

Well, that's just how we roll over here, RainDog.

I flirt with extreme apathy a lot more these days.

Right the fuck on, JP. It's at least a small comfort that most BP gas stations around here are deserted.

Ryan, I am in a somewhat similar situation with my mom. She went on and on about how we should buy BP gas because if we don't, the company will pull out of the Gulf and won't be able to afford the cleanup efforts because of the lack of money coming in.

I told her to go fuck herself.

JP, have you seen the BP commercials? They started out with Piers Morgan apologizing, then they switched the people up to either a white dude or a latino dude. Subtle.

I have been happily and proudly without cable TV for almost a decade now. So no, I haven't seen any BP commercials (or really commercials of any kind for some time now).

America! Fuck yeah!

We haven't gotten to that point yet lol

That's funny because the one's around me are always either a white guy or a black guy. I haven't seen the commercial with the Latino guy yet.

Is the oil still spilling? Is it leaking from the sea floor? I've been paying to the news but I still can't be certain, it's as if everyone would rather just not talk about it at this point

Yes, leaking for sea floor. Pretty much fucked. They're trying their best to cover it up.

WTF humanity?!?! Oy!

Blast on gulf oil rig injures 1 worker

Deja friggin' vu?

Thankfully this is just a platform not a rig, so no real risk for more leakage I guess. Still... what a year for the oil industry.

Now there are reports of a mile-long oil sheen flowing out from the platform. Surely there won't be too much though since it's supposedly not producing?

GAAAAAAAAAAAH! I was just informed that someone I know received 10 fucking THOUSAND from BP IN ADDITION to the 2,000 they got months ago.


This person is a waitress at a restaurant near our beach. And I can verify that their business has not been affected even the slightest bit by all this.

On the one hand I'm livid because well, that's bureaucracy at work right there. God fucking damnit. I want 10,000 that I didn't earn!

But then, I happen to have a far more blessed life than this person so maybe that's just karma sort of getting them back.

But then, when I lived with said person during Hurricane Ivan and our house was severely damaged, they stole the 3,000 FEMA gave to us that we were intended to all share.

Deep breaths... deep breaths.

Rain Dog's post about pollution in the Nigerian delta is a good one. Throughout the gulf disaster the media (and politicians) made no effort to place this catastrophe in context. What's been taking place in Nigeria over the last FIFTY YEARS is unimaginably more horrific. People are falling down dead there like threshed wheat every day of every month. And there's no end in sight.

It was fun watching the oil execs squirm up in Washington. But this caring-sharing image they like to portray is pure baloney. These people are merciless killers. In the US you have some semblance of law to protect you from their rapacious greed. So count yourselves lucky. In Nigeria and other Third World countries the law is either subverted or erased entirely.

There is a litany of evidence to back up the claim that the oil business views human beings with utter contempt. Stir up trouble for these fascists in places where they have the law in their pocket and they rub you out. If the law can't be co-opted they hire some mercenary to put a bullet through the base of your skull or you simply disappear.

Of course, such silence shouldn't come as a surprise when some of the biggest Presidential campaign contributors are oil companies and the (few) conglomerates that own the media have a long and tawdry history of partnerships.

Wow.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_733692.html


It's common knowledge that there's a hefty bit of oil not far underneath all the "cleaned up" sand here. I just can't believe that the Park Service got involved like this. You'd think BP are the only ones with any stake in covering this shit up. I guess they think they're helping tourism by doing this?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/riki-o..._b_720461.html

Are there any Chud members that live in this area who have witnessed such illnesses?

EDIT: Blarg. Link and thread mix up. Nothing to see here.