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The MR. PLINKETT & RED LETTER MEDIA Discussion - Page 7

post #301 of 1422
4/4/10 at 10:10pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
I think the whole "the Jedi screwed up" argument feels like a retroactive excuse for sloppy writing on Lucas' part. Sure, you can look at the disconnect between Jedi in the OT and the PT and say, "Well, they learned their lesson," but not much in Empire feels like this is a new method for Yoda.
I would agree with this if Lucas hadn't explicitly stated that a major theme in the Prequel series is the decline and fall of the Republic, and the Jedi are intimately involved with the Republic, their public protests to the contrary.

I actually think this IS an example of sloppy writing, but in this case the sloppiness comes from a failure to have any character state something like "The Jedi aren't what they were, they are kind of fucked up"

But wait, Yoda says just that in AOTC when Obi Wan tells him and Mace Windu that Anakin is arrogant. "Yes, a failing all too common among Jedi, even the older, more experienced ones"

I don't believe I'm defending the Prequels.
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post #302 of 1422
4/4/10 at 10:13pm
But there's no real tragedy to the fall of the Jedi. They don't do the wrong thing for the right reasons, or see their principles fail them. They act in a blithely ignorant manner that feels more driven by the necessities of the plot than by some grand tragic arc. They fall because they have to before Star Wars starts.
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post #303 of 1422
4/4/10 at 10:15pm
Also, again, it's terrible writing, but there's a moment at the beginning of Sith where Yoda says the prophecy could've been misread. No fucking shit, Yoda. The prophecy will bring balance to the force, and you motherfuckers are in charge. You KNEW this was a downhill slide years ago.
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post #304 of 1422
4/4/10 at 10:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Clark View Post
Also, again, it's terrible writing, but there's a moment at the beginning of Sith where Yoda says the prophecy could've been misread. No fucking shit, Yoda. The prophecy will bring balance to the force, and you motherfuckers are in charge. You KNEW this was a downhill slide years ago.
I remember watching TPM back in '99 and wondering what the fuck balance even meant in this context. If the Sith were as marginalized as the film would have us believe, wouldn't "balancing" the force mean a sizable shift toward the dark side? Just one of the many examples of how the Jedis in the PT are like Taoists who don't get Taosim and are also mildly retarded. And no, I don't think it's on purpose.
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post #305 of 1422
4/4/10 at 10:27pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
But there's no real tragedy to the fall of the Jedi. They don't do the wrong thing for the right reasons, or see their principles fail them. They act in a blithely ignorant manner that feels more driven by the necessities of the plot than by some grand tragic arc. They fall because they have to before Star Wars starts.
Hey no one is going to argue that the idea was well executed. I'm just saying the idea is there.

Evidence?

NUMBER ONE: Obi Wan goes to the Lucas Library to find Camino. He can't find it in the archives and when he asks if someone could have wiped it, he's huffily informed that if a planet can't be found in the archive, then it doesn't exist.

NUMBER TWO: the scene with Obi Wan and Yoda I mentioned above

NUMBER THREE: Cone Head and Windu's statement to Padme that Count Dooku couldn't possibly plan an Assassination: "It's not in his nature"

NUMBER FOUR: Yoda's comment to Windu that they have to conceal their newly realized weakness with The Force or "Multiply there enemies will". That is a twofer actually: They JUST NOW realize that they can't utilize the Force the way Jedi in the past could, and they are deliberately concealing information from the Senate, showing that they are knee deep in politics

NUMBER FIVE: "What few Jedi we have left will go to " the Bug Planet. Why are there so few Jedi? Did something happen to most of the Jedi and there are now only a few left? Fuck if I know, but it's right there in the film.

NUMBER SIX: The "Order 66" montage/murder of the "Younglings" (what a fucking Gay name for children) is the most we get in terms of Epic Loss in the PT. I know I"m skipping ahead to Revenge of the Sith but again, the point is the idea is there, just poorly done.
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post #306 of 1422
4/4/10 at 10:34pm
Why does Padme even suspect Dooku of anything? There's no reasons suggested by her or even how or why she knows of him. It's simlply there to introduce a new Sith without actually seeing him. Sloppy!
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post #307 of 1422
4/4/10 at 10:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
I remember watching TPM back in '99 and wondering what the fuck balance even meant in this context. If the Sith were as marginalized as the film would have us believe, wouldn't "balancing" the force mean a sizable shift toward the dark side? Just one of the many examples of how the Jedis in the PT are like Taoists who don't get Taosim and are also mildly retarded. And no, I don't think it's on purpose.
I'd agree, if the OT didn't paint such a bleak picture of theocracy at work. It's just that while the OT shows the failures of religion in the Roman Catholic sense, the PT shows the failure of the Eastern.

Everything we know about Lucas outside of these films back up two things blatantly obvious about his personal views that make it into the prequels. One, while spirituality is beautiful, organized religion is bullshit. Two, he's afraid of, cynical of, and enamored of children/teenagers, in equal measure. He's not a good enough writer to make those elements truly sing in the prequels above his need to just entertain, but they are there. I refuse to believe they're incidental subtext.
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post #308 of 1422
4/4/10 at 10:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnotaur3 View Post
Why does Padme even suspect Dooku of anything? There's no reasons suggested by her or even how or why she knows of him. It's simlply there to introduce a new Sith without actually seeing him. Sloppy!
She read the opening scroll as she was landing.

edit: Well it seems in the scroll that it mentioned groups already separating, so I would assume she knew that they were under Dooku and that she was a key member of signing some litigation. Of course it gets sloppy because why her? Oh yeah shes a main character. Its not like they could of tried killing some other senators so her vote wouldn't mean anything.

The scroll:
There is unrest in the Galactic
Senate. Several thousand solar
systems have declared their
intentions to leave the Republic.

This separatist movement,
under the leadership of the
mysterious Count Dooku, has
made it difficult for the limited
number of Jedi Knights to maintain
peace and order in the galaxy.

Senator Amidala, the former
Queen of Naboo, is returning
to the Galactic Senate to vote
on the critical issue of creating
an ARMY OF THE REPUBLIC
to assist the overwhelmed
Jedi....
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post #309 of 1422
4/4/10 at 10:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post
I really liked "Plinkett's" comparisons of AOTC and ESB. I had not really noticed how much Lucas tried to recapture the magic (but my brain did!)

My take on Lucas is that he was a superb Producer and surrounded himself or lucked into a "Magic circle" of talent in his first three movies. His wife/editor, his producers (esp Coppola), the acting talent he had access to (it is amazing how many of the cast of American Graffiti went on to long Television or movie careers), Ben Burtt, John Williams, the list seems to be endless.

Empire Strikes Back seems to be his peak: He had his one time mentor directing, the whole creative team (behind and in front of the cameras) seemed to be firing on all cylinders, and of course everyone knew they were doing the follow-up to a cultural phenomenon.

But that film also represented a turning point for Lucas...as production wore on delays and cost over runs meant Lucas had to make some financial sacrifices that could have killed his dreams of independence had ESB not been a smash. (And this was in the days before movie studios knew how to market the worst piece of shit movies to make sure they made money).

After ESB it seems Lucas made a decision that if there was a choice between a bold creative decision and meeting the film's budget, he would go for the later. And with Raiders that philosophy worked really well.

Cut to the 1990's, and Lucas's "Magic Circle" of talented friends is mostly gone (important exceptions are Williams and Burtt, and look at what the best aspects of the Prequels are). The Next Gen crews he signed on for the Prequels were working with Directing Sensation Mayor George Lucas, Billionaire and Auteur. Who was going to say to that man: "This idea is really shit!". Also, as Red Letter Media points out, Lucas had the most success when he couldn't call the shots on his films: if he could, we'd have had a 6ft tall Luke Skywalker with a Robot Head.
I think that maybe his divorce could of also played a role.
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post #310 of 1422
4/4/10 at 10:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Clark View Post
I'd agree, if the OT didn't paint such a bleak picture of theocracy at work. It's just that while the OT shows the failures of religion in the Roman Catholic sense
I'm probably just being dense, but what theocracy in the OT are you referring to here? I never really thought of the Empire as a theocracy.
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post #311 of 1422
4/4/10 at 11:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAIRUS View Post
She read the opening scroll as she was landing.
Lulz.
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post #312 of 1422
4/4/10 at 11:12pm
The AOTC review is a pretty disappointing sequel. Ironic.
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post #313 of 1422
4/4/10 at 11:14pm
this guy has some great music playing during his reviews. I heard "Guess Who's Back" (Jay-Z, Scarface, Beanie Siegel) and "Full Clip" (Gangstarr) in one of those parts.

Oh shit, just saw the Obi Wan/Anakin vs. Dooku "Boss fight" sequence in Part 8. Christ!
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post #314 of 1422
4/4/10 at 11:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
I'm probably just being dense, but what theocracy in the OT are you referring to here? I never really thought of the Empire as a theocracy.
It's not Spanish inquisition "Tell me of El Diablo" kind of theocracy, but it's a government being ruled by two guys using martial law to achieve the goals of their faith while demonizing another. Tired comparison, but it's more of a Bush White House brand of theocracy than anything.
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post #315 of 1422
4/4/10 at 11:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Bateman View Post
The AOTC review is a pretty disappointing sequel. Ironic.
Doesn't start as strongly, just as funny.
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post #316 of 1422
4/4/10 at 11:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Dellamorte View Post
The dance number is better than lord Grevious.

The biggest problem with Sith, even though it is quite clearly the best of the three in terms of scripting and character work (which is saying something), when it has to deliver canonical moments, it's legitimately terrible. There is no defending the death of Mace Windu and the conversion of Anakin. Or the final fight scene, which becomes about two guys going from location to location swinging swords at each other on digital landscapes. Sure, you can project emotion on to that, but it's not a dramatically viable scene because nothing is being conveyed.

When you compare that to any of the big beats in Jedi, there's no contest.
I think that really hits the nail on the head. It's not that the moments in Sith are inherently bad, it's a complete failure in execution. Grevious is a perfect example, as he was actually a decent character in the original Clone Wars series (the Samurai Jack one), and the reason he comes off as a wheezy wreck in the film is because Windu crushes his chest. Which is interesting, if you watched the cartoon. If you didn't, all you get is stupid asthmatic robot guy getting bumped off like a bitch. In the right hands, this material could have risen above the cliche, but instead it falls completely flat.
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post #317 of 1422
4/4/10 at 11:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Bateman View Post
The AOTC review is a pretty disappointing sequel. Ironic.
Had some funny moments, but not as funny as TPM imo. Maybe it's cause AOTC is so bad its just sad...
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post #318 of 1422
4/4/10 at 11:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luca S. View Post
The actress who played the hooker had a big rack.
You mean the homage to Jamie Lee Curtis in Trading Places and True Lies?




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post #319 of 1422
4/5/10 at 1:02am
Yeah, I guess I didn't get that reference to Jaime Lee Curtis.

I agree with others on this thread. The first few parts of the review cover very little new material, at the cost of material that I wish he'd covered towards the end, like Anakin's mother's death scene. But I'll get what I can take. The writer has a very articulate, refreshingly critical take on storytelling.

I also think that the psychopath subplot serves a critical purpose as well, and isn't just tacked on to make it easier to sit through an analytical regurgitation of unlikable films. He's also reviewing the audience by making an exaggeration of all the qualities common among pop culture fanatics.
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post #320 of 1422
4/5/10 at 1:18am
This one was really good. It also picked up a lot of steam about halfway through.

I didn't think the review would live up to my expectations, but it did and then some. Great work.
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post #321 of 1422
4/5/10 at 1:19am
Prepare for lulz: http://boards.theforce.net/prequel_t...737825/p1/?302

Quote:
The 70 Minute review for TPM is meant to mock the complaints of Star Wars fans.

All of them are delivered in such a ridiculous way that it's amazing to me that anyone would admit to "agreeing" with his points.

In the first clip, you will notice the bit where he talks about the "pro tag un ust" usually getting the girl in the end. One of the clips that goes along with that is Charlie hugging Willy Wonka.

That's just one clue to the disdain the author of this video has with the complaints he's presenting.

Never mind the self portrayal of a guy who keeps women tied up in his basement.

Tuskinraiderfromhell, you should watch this, it's hilarious, you'll enjoy it because it mocks all the complaints.
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post #322 of 1422
4/5/10 at 1:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott View Post
Urge to troll...rising.

EDIT: Oh man, I take it back, this is just sad.
EDIT #2: Wait, it just got hilarious again.
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post #323 of 1422
4/5/10 at 1:57am
The Prequel Trilogy thread on that TFN is really fucking nutty in its defense, but pretty much everyone else in the non-Star Wars (read: the reasonable) portion of the forum fucking loves these reviews.
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post #324 of 1422
4/5/10 at 1:58am
A few of my favorites so far.

drg4 objectifies AOTC:
Quote:
The gal's a bit of a neurotic, I admit. But she's sweet, her smile and sense of humor are to die for, and no way am I gonna listen to her being eviscerated for over an hour.
Hyperbole Theater from Arawn_Fenn:
Quote:
Heero_Yuy posted:Also, I find it hilarious just how many Prequel fans refuse to watch it. I think they should really ask themselves why. Is it because you're afraid that everything the review says might hit close to home?

Would the same logic apply if a Jewish person didn't want to listen to a speech by Hitler?
I've never seen Blue Velvet, so I'm assuming drg4's take is accurate:
Quote:
Although it's been over a decade since I've experienced Blue Velvet, the ending is congruent with the AOTC capper. Just as the presence of the fake bird informs us that Booth's evil is not at all expunged from Jeffrey's world, the framing of Anakin's artificial hand indicates that even at this sacred moment, when the ersatz hero has found his center, on the cusp of creating two children with his bride, the Vader persona casts a wide shadow.

God, I love these prequels.
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post #325 of 1422
4/5/10 at 2:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splatoon View Post
A few of my favorites so far.

drg4 objectifies AOTC:


Hyperbole Theater from Arawn_Fenn:


I've never seen Blue Velvet, so I'm assuming drg4's take is accurate:
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post #326 of 1422
4/5/10 at 3:14am
God, Frank Booth as Palpatine.

BABY WANTS A FUCKING CLONE WAR DOOKU AND YOU'RE GONNA FUCKING GIVE IT TO ME!! A FUCKING LOVE LETTER TO THE REPUBLIC! YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN BY THAT? A FUCKING BOLT FROM A FUCKING BLASTER!
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post #327 of 1422
4/5/10 at 3:55am
You know what was awesome in the prequel trilogy? The music. No one seems to mention that even though the dreck of the prequels Williams was able to create a new theme (duel of the fates) that was almost as iconic as the OT stuff. The fact that the music is never mentioned once in either of the reviews is telling.
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post #328 of 1422
4/5/10 at 4:10am
At most, the only solid criticism of Williams' score I have is that it was absolutely butchered in AOTC. A lot of the final battle felt like it was used directly from the TPM score. I don't blame Williams at all, of course. I blame Lucas and non-linear editing which makes it too damned easy to change stuff late in the game.

It always felt so wrong that the Jedis' arrival in the arena was so unimpressive in terms of the score. It's fitting now, since the Jedis were a bunch of assholes. But that same year, it compared horribly to the way Peter Jackson gave Gandalf's return to Helm's Deep such a sense of occasion.
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post #329 of 1422
4/5/10 at 4:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaz View Post
You know what was awesome in the prequel trilogy? The music. No one seems to mention that even though the dreck of the prequels Williams was able to create a new theme (duel of the fates) that was almost as iconic as the OT stuff. The fact that the music is never mentioned once in either of the reviews is telling.
Because they have nothing to do with the real point: The story. Or whatever that was in the prequels. But the music has been mentioned in this thread (along with Burtt) IIRC. Everytime I listen to the TPM soundtrack I always imagine a much better movie because tracks such as "Anakin's Theme" has more emotion going for it than the three films combined. The films should have had that sense of wonder and adventure that Williams brought to his work.
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post #330 of 1422
4/5/10 at 4:50am
It starts a bit slow and overall it's not as funny as the first but I think the new review is a better constructed piece overall and once it really starts picking up the pace around the middle it just gets brilliant. Especially after the video game sequence.

"Welcome back Lord Tyrannus."

"Thank you my master, but what happened back there well I'm really not sure."

"What do you mean you're not sure?"

"Well Yoda showed up with the clones and they fought the robots and I'm not sure who won."

"Excellent."

Brilliant.
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post #331 of 1422
4/5/10 at 5:29am
Here's what this guy had to do:
- Not repeat himself
- Not say the same complaints that have been raised for years
- Be funny
- Know that his audience has grown, and I can pretty much guarantee that everyone who works in industry on effects and shit and many that have worked on these films have seen these (Lucas withstanding) and I'll bet you a number of them have contacted him. Simon Pegg's a fan.

With all that on his back he managed to not repeat himself too much and find new things to say. I understand that some people are disappointed, but this wasn't something that was going to hit the same way the first did. It couldn't. But the work he did here is pretty amazing. If you're disappointed, I have no idea what you expected. I guess it could have been shorter, but I would watch another half hour of it.
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post #332 of 1422
4/5/10 at 5:55am
It really takes a while to get a head of steam, and then when it does get a head of steam it feels like it just ends. Doesn't feel exhaustive in the way it could have been.

The killer stuff is the worst. At least he relegates it to the end of the chapter so I can just skip to the next one. I'm not offended by anything about that stuff except its unfunny nature. It's one poor joke repeated. I like that he kept the character more or less out of the review this time, but I wish he'd kind of retire the whole schtick.
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post #333 of 1422
4/5/10 at 5:59am
The psycho stuff peaks with the jigsaw-puzzle joke in Part 1. But I do like that the finale is a properly unresolved second-act break.
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post #334 of 1422
4/5/10 at 8:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post
Because they have nothing to do with the real point: The story. Or whatever that was in the prequels. But the music has been mentioned in this thread (along with Burtt) IIRC. Everytime I listen to the TPM soundtrack I always imagine a much better movie because tracks such as "Anakin's Theme" has more emotion going for it than the three films combined. The films should have had that sense of wonder and adventure that Williams brought to his work.
"Across the Stars" gives more romance and tragedy to the Anakin/Padme relationship than anything either actor puts on screen.
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post #335 of 1422
4/5/10 at 8:56am
With "Across the Stars" Lucas wanted a sweeping romantic piece for the film. He got it, he just couldn't write it. The boards at the Force.net are pretty sad. If you keep telling yourself that you love something for 10 freaking years, sooner or later you're going to believe it.
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post #336 of 1422
4/5/10 at 9:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post
It always felt so wrong that the Jedis' arrival in the arena was so unimpressive in terms of the score. It's fitting now, since the Jedis were a bunch of assholes. But that same year, it compared horribly to the way Peter Jackson gave Gandalf's return to Helm's Deep such a sense of occasion.
Lets face it, in every way possible, Jacksons films schooled the prequels in how you do that shit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Dellamorte View Post
Here's what this guy had to do:
- Not repeat himself
- Not say the same complaints that have been raised for years
- Be funny
- Know that his audience has grown, and I can pretty much guarantee that everyone who works in industry on effects and shit and many that have worked on these films have seen these (Lucas withstanding) and I'll bet you a number of them have contacted him. Simon Pegg's a fan.

With all that on his back he managed to not repeat himself too much and find new things to say. I understand that some people are disappointed, but this wasn't something that was going to hit the same way the first did. It couldn't. But the work he did here is pretty amazing. If you're disappointed, I have no idea what you expected. I guess it could have been shorter, but I would watch another half hour of it.
Exactly. It was actually a hell of an achievement. I have so far enkoyed both of his reviews imminently more than the films he's reviewing.
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post #337 of 1422
4/5/10 at 10:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
"Across the Stars" gives more romance and tragedy to the Anakin/Padme relationship than anything either actor puts on screen.
I agree with that. But I blame Lucas' poor writing and unfocused direction more than just poor acting.
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post #338 of 1422
4/5/10 at 11:07am
Jesus, all the points made are valid.

Why the fuck do I own this piece of shit.
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post #339 of 1422
4/5/10 at 11:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaylorF View Post
I agree with that. But I blame Lucas' poor writing and unfocused direction more than just poor acting.
Ford, Hamill and Fisher managed to overcome that in the first film.
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post #340 of 1422
4/5/10 at 11:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
Ford, Hamill and Fisher managed to overcome that in the first film.
Perhaps I'm just blinded by nostalgia. I don't think Lucas is a bad director. I think he is very good. But with the prequels he just didn't seem overly focused on his characters' stories (arcs). Its almost as if he knew where they needed to get and tried to get them there as fast as possible. He left almost everything open-ended as to sell his later "works", such as the television shows.

With the original "Star Wars", the screenplay felt different. There was identity and honesty. The screenplay went through multiple re-writes finding the right story and motivations. True the writing isn't necessarily profound, but its less clunky in its simplicity. More of the lines have meaning to what is going on as opposed to being spewed out for filler. Lucas' actors in "Star Wars" were also in more real environments as opposed to acting opposite of digital characters and environments.

I think I still have to stand by the poor execution as to why the performances are so cardboard. This is in defense of Portman btw. Christensen is not very good even in the decently written scenes (though he has the Skywalker whine down). Besides Lucas being the commonality between AOTC and "Star Wars", the stories are uniquely different and portrayed in completely different manners. I think it says something when a director is diagnosed with hyper-tension filming one, and seems almost completely care-free on the other.
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post #341 of 1422
4/5/10 at 11:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
Ford, Hamill and Fisher managed to overcome that in the first film.
There isn't anything unfocused about the direction of the first Star Wars. Lucas has (or had, rather) talent. The issue with the Prequels is that is just seems like he actually didn't care about anything in them at all. As for the writing, well, Lucas definitely needs co-writers.

Lucas is a big picture man, not a detail guy. He's great with the sweeping stuff, but he needs a team of people who know how to focus his ideas into something workable. Unfortunately he just hasn't had that in the about 20 r 30 years.
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post #342 of 1422
4/5/10 at 11:50am
I've always been a bit of an apologist but that is some pretty excellent criticism. I love the fact that as, incisive and brutal as the deconstruction is, it's actually done in a very constructive fashion and he backs it all up with really simple arguments. Part nine with Yoda reacting to Lucas, McCallum, et al is hilarious, spot on and also bloody depressing, not to mention a great lesson for other directors out there.

Totally agree with you Youngblood on that. Trouble was, as others have already pointed out, when TPM started cooking, noone was going to tell Lucas his ideas were shit largely because they had some kind of misguided nostalgia based blind-faith that he somehow knew better and it would all pan out ok. Only clearly it didn't. I think he was even surprised by that and has now surrounded himself by yes people so that he can convince himself that these movies are as good as the originals and it's just jaded fanboys who have problems with the prequels.
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post #343 of 1422
4/5/10 at 12:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
Ford, Hamill and Fisher managed to overcome that in the first film.
Very true. The issue I believe is the endless blue screen, or characters portrayed by tennis balls attached to a stick. But not every actor has difficulty acting against nothing. This doesn't seem to be a problem for all actors including classically trained stage actors like Christopher Lee, in fact there's an interview with him where he talks about how horrible the acting in the prequels is. He blames it on method acting, I think it doesn't answer everything but he has made a good point. How can you bring emotional authenticity to a role when you cannot identify with the physical actions you're going through?
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post #344 of 1422
4/5/10 at 12:30pm
What's interesting is, it seemed like Lucas recognized, at least at first, his own faults, and tried to get Ron Howard to do Episode I and Spielberg to do Episode II. It seems like at one point he had wanted to have people who were better at it handle the building of the characters and their relationships, so he could do what he wanted to do in Episode III, namely, pay off on everything that was set up already. I think you could posit that the last half of Episode III is the only part of the story Lucas cared about telling himself.
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post #345 of 1422
4/5/10 at 12:34pm
Don't forget, Lucas had Huyck and Katz go through and do a polish on his Star Wars script, and that's when a lot of the humor and charm showed up. I give Lucas plenty of props when it comes to structure and overall arcs, but he's like an architect who can dream up these amazing skyscrapers, has the technology to build them, then forgets to put in windows and bathrooms.
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post #346 of 1422
4/5/10 at 12:35pm
So you're basically saying he's Frank Gehry?



But in seriousness, it is interesting that Howard and Spielberg basically shit Lucas down on his offer and told him he should direct them all himself. Maybe they thought he needed to get back on the horse or something.
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post #347 of 1422
4/5/10 at 1:06pm
Just flicking through this review and it is a mixture of the same obvious criticisms made by everyone at the time and a seemingly infinite amount of nitpicky bullshit. Good film criticism does not, under almost any circumstances whatsoever, need to be 90 minutes long.

But hey it's Star Wars prequel related preaching to the choir so it's another 12 page serving of the exact same statements repeated over and over and over again. Oh what fun.
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post #348 of 1422
4/5/10 at 1:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Youngblood View Post
But in seriousness, it is interesting that Howard and Spielberg basically shit Lucas down on his offer and told him he should direct them all himself. Maybe they thought he needed to get back on the horse or something.
Perhaps it was the destined end to the prequels that scared them away. Or they read the screenplays and said "Hell No!".

There was no room for changing what had to get from A to B. Which in turn kind of made the story inorganic. I have no doubt its hard to do (creating prequels) but it felt so straightforward, meaning:

1. Here are our characters
2. Here is what was going on
3. This is how they reacted
4. And that's why we are here

It's more of an information dump, than an actual story.
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post #349 of 1422
4/5/10 at 1:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
Don't forget, Lucas had Huyck and Katz go through and do a polish on his Star Wars script, and that's when a lot of the humor and charm showed up. I give Lucas plenty of props when it comes to structure and overall arcs, but he's like an architect who can dream up these amazing skyscrapers, has the technology to build them, then forgets to put in windows and bathrooms.
As someone who works in an I. M. Pei building with a constantly rebuilt interior, I approve of this metaphor.
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post #350 of 1422
4/5/10 at 2:02pm
I've never been in the prequel means dramatic inertia camp.

Yeah we knew how it vaguely had to end but there was so much we didn't.

The problem was George didn't bother creating interestng characters that we could root for along that journey. Had he managed that (and its in no way impossible) then the fact that we knew that Anakin would have to fall and everything would turn to shit, etc, would only have added to the tragedy had he pulled it off.

Any amount of cool characters could have bought it along the way. Instead we had the Jedi. I think he was trying to portray the Jedi as arrogant and victims of their own hubris but he fudged the execution so badly it's impossible to say that with any certainty. Then I think back to some of the points made in the review and realize that George probably really doesn't get why people connected to the originals. That Yoda intercut with all the tech/ midis stuff just nails it. It would certainly explain how he came to some of the choices he made,

Some of the crit is standard to a lot of movies though, where real-life logic goes out the window, but hey, how else you gonna fill 90 mins (I would start on the Ewan's re-shoot beard/ changing weight for a start)?
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