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Justice Stevens steps down

post #1 of 59
4/9/10 at 12:02pm
Thread Starter 
Breaking News

Not a surprise at all, considering that he only hired one clerk for the upcoming term.
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post #2 of 59
4/9/10 at 12:11pm
Obligatory "great profile of him in the New Yorker recently" mention.

The profile in question made it clear how unhappy he was with the current state of the court, and what a valuable presence he is. I really hope Obama replaces him with someone of his caliber. Elena Kagan from Harvard would be a good choice -- and possibly the first openly gay justice.
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post #3 of 59
4/9/10 at 12:21pm
It won't happen, but as a law student from outside the Top 100, I'd like to see a justice that went to a school not Harvard, Yale, or Stanford.
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post #4 of 59
4/9/10 at 12:28pm
I'd love to see Erwin Chemerinsky nominated. That guy's awesome.
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post #5 of 59
4/9/10 at 12:30pm
They should nominate Edward James Olmos.
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post #6 of 59
4/9/10 at 12:31pm
He could teach the rest of the justices calculus and valuable life lessons about the importance of self-esteem.
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post #7 of 59
4/9/10 at 12:31pm
Thread Starter 



RELEASE THE KAGAN!
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post #8 of 59
4/9/10 at 12:32pm
Someone just told me that Stevens is the only protestant on the court. Is that true? What about Roberts?
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post #9 of 59
4/9/10 at 12:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy Jankis View Post
Someone just told me that Stevens is the only protestant on the court. Is that true? What about Roberts?
Roberts is just a cipher; I doubt he holds any real convictions.

All kidding aside, I'd love to see Obama nominate someone with actual criminal law experience.
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post #10 of 59
4/9/10 at 12:36pm
Angles, we also would have accepted Davey Jones.

Devildoubt misses the joke.
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post #11 of 59
4/9/10 at 12:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RathBandu View Post
Angles, we also would have accepted Davey Jones.

Devildoubt misses the joke.
Oops. That does happen.
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post #12 of 59
4/9/10 at 1:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RathBandu View Post
They should nominate Edward James Olmos.
He'll get thrown in jail on a trumped up charge because he looks like someone named Edward James Olmos.
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post #13 of 59
4/9/10 at 1:41pm
But his kid won't know what that is. Very sad.
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post #14 of 59
4/9/10 at 2:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy Jankis View Post
Someone just told me that Stevens is the only protestant on the court. Is that true? What about Roberts?
Roberts is a Catholic.

Also, Kagan isn't gay. You're thinking of Kathleen Sullivan.
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post #15 of 59
4/9/10 at 2:24pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pompoussory Estoppel View Post
It won't happen, but as a law student from outside the Top 100, I'd like to see a justice that went to a school not Harvard, Yale, or Stanford.

There are so many politically palatable candidates from Harvard & Yale that it makes them easy choices, since their perceived academic pedigree gives Obama one less thing to worry about. I agree though, it'd be nice to maybe have another NU grad.
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post #16 of 59
4/9/10 at 2:30pm
It would be nice if they had the balls to actually do away with the filibuster and put up a justice for consideration who actually fits the pre-Reagan/sane and informed definition of "progressive," since, you know, the court has four of the most insanely right-wing justices in the entire history of the institution on the bench at the same time. But that's never going to fucking happen.
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post #17 of 59
4/9/10 at 2:45pm
Pretty sure Stevens went to Northwestern. The other 8 are pure Ivy. All went to either Harvard or Yale. Ginsburg started at Harvard but transferred to Columbia to finish her degree. Not that we should really be playing identity politics, but it would nice to see a non-Catholic from a non-Ivy League school get nominated. Maybe even someone who is not a sitting Federal judge.
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post #18 of 59
4/9/10 at 2:49pm
How about a Baptist from Oral Roberts University?

Damn. Made myself shudder.
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post #19 of 59
4/9/10 at 3:08pm
Unlike Sonya sotomayor... This is an election year and the republicans in the Senate would love to shore up their conservative base. What better way than "Borking" the first nominee no matter what his or her judicial temperment?

BTW: Obama will pick a white guy. Unfortunately he will never choose a black guy or gal for the court, too much "affirmative action" backlash.
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post #20 of 59
4/9/10 at 3:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angles View Post
There are so many politically palatable candidates from Harvard & Yale that it makes them easy choices, since their perceived academic pedigree gives Obama one less thing to worry about. I agree though, it'd be nice to maybe have another NU grad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jvc View Post
Pretty sure Stevens went to Northwestern. The other 8 are pure Ivy. All went to either Harvard or Yale. Ginsburg started at Harvard but transferred to Columbia to finish her degree. Not that we should really be playing identity politics, but it would nice to see a non-Catholic from a non-Ivy League school get nominated. Maybe even someone who is not a sitting Federal judge.
The American government, especially the Supreme Court, is filled with so much Ivy cronism that it makes me quite sick. It's one of the reasons why we're in the mess we're in because the entire government's policymakers are within a giant good old boy's club that act as yes men for who happens to be the leaders at that time.

As someone who attends law school not in the Ivy League, I see plenty of people everyday who are intelligent enough to be justices on the Supreme Court. They are some of the best professors I've had in all my years of higher education. Yet, it doesn't matter.

For once, I'd like to see a justice from a tier three school.
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post #21 of 59
4/9/10 at 3:18pm
I think you might be right, Estoppel.
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post #22 of 59
4/9/10 at 3:25pm
Thread Starter 
A third Tier justice? Let's not get carried away here.

A non-Ivy justice would hopefully also encourage more diversity (school-wise) for clerkships as well.
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post #23 of 59
4/9/10 at 3:25pm
Diane Wood went to University of Texas Law.
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post #24 of 59
4/9/10 at 3:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdHocken View Post
Diane Wood went to University of Texas Law.
That's still a really top notch school, but I wouldn't have a problem with that.

For the most part, the education at most ABA-accredited law schools are the same. The education one would receive at Harvard is the same one would receive at Texas, NYU, or even Villanova.

The difference is that one going to Harvard has access to the alumni and can receive better job prospects because of the name alone. They've also got the money to spend on fantastic law libraries and facilities. Honestly though, the education is the same. You still learn the same black letter law in a torts class in Harvard than you would if you went to the University of Iowa.
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post #25 of 59
4/9/10 at 4:03pm
I'd just like to chime in and mention that the source of your J.D. is no indication of talent or intelligence. I know an attorney who graduated from Harvard and he is quite possibly the stupidest, most borderline malpracticin' attorney I know.
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post #26 of 59
4/9/10 at 4:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattioli View Post
I'd just like to chime in and mention that the source of your J.D. is no indication of talent or intelligence. I know an attorney who graduated from Harvard and he is quite possibly the stupidest, most borderline malpracticin' attorney I know.
A-fuckin'-men.
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post #27 of 59
4/9/10 at 4:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pompoussory Estoppel View Post
The American government, especially the Supreme Court, is filled with so much Ivy cronism that it makes me quite sick. It's one of the reasons why we're in the mess we're in because the entire government's policymakers are within a giant good old boy's club that act as yes men for who happens to be the leaders at that time.
I completely agree with this. I think I heard some discussion earlier in the year about Obama being on about this same page. I really hope so.
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post #28 of 59
4/9/10 at 4:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by yt View Post
I completely agree with this. I think I heard some discussion earlier in the year about Obama being on about this same page. I really hope so.
I'd like to believe this, but I can't. Obama himself is a Harvard grad and his staff is filled to the brim with individuals from elite schools.

His Council of Economic Advisors are made up of two MIT grads and a Harvard grad.

State schoolers get the shaft when it comes to governmental appointees it seems.
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post #29 of 59
4/9/10 at 5:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdHocken View Post
Diane Wood went to University of Texas Law.
Accept no substitutes. I went to law school at the University of Chicago and took a class with her. She's brilliant, and a wonderful human being, too.
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post #30 of 59
4/9/10 at 7:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pompoussory Estoppel View Post
I'd like to believe this, but I can't. Obama himself is a Harvard grad and his staff is filled to the brim with individuals from elite schools.

His Council of Economic Advisors are made up of two MIT grads and a Harvard grad.

State schoolers get the shaft when it comes to governmental appointees it seems.
There is nothing wrong with MIT.
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post #31 of 59
4/9/10 at 8:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaieke View Post
There is nothing wrong with MIT.
Yes there is.

It's not the quality of the education, but rather the diversity of the education. MIT and Harvard are within the same state. Good universities don't just come from New England.

For once, I'd like to see an economist from a Big Ten or SEC school have a major role in policy making instead of some asshat from the Ivy League conferring with another asshat from the Ivy League.
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post #32 of 59
4/9/10 at 9:14pm
I'd like to see a justice who isn't a lawyer.

Yeah, right.
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post #33 of 59
4/9/10 at 10:15pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pompoussory Estoppel View Post
I'd like to believe this, but I can't. Obama himself is a Harvard grad and his staff is filled to the brim with individuals from elite schools.

His Council of Economic Advisors are made up of two MIT grads and a Harvard grad.

State schoolers get the shaft when it comes to governmental appointees it seems.
He's a former president of Harvard Law Review, no less.

I agree with the state schoolers generalization, for federal government jobs. State governments are a different story. Florida's three branches are predominantly run by UF alums, with a few FSU grads here and there.
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post #34 of 59
4/9/10 at 11:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhukov View Post
I'd like to see a justice who isn't a lawyer.

Yeah, right.
umm, what?
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post #35 of 59
4/9/10 at 11:12pm
I'd just like to see it happen. Throw in a switch-up. The Constitution is cool with it.

Or maybe a justice who wasn't a judge, like Earl Warren.
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post #36 of 59
4/9/10 at 11:15pm
Even if it's constitutionally acceptable, someone who hasn't practiced as a lawyer isn't qualified. You have to have a pretty deep understanding of the constitution in order to interpret it (not to mention various judicial doctrines, statutes and precedent).
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post #37 of 59
4/10/10 at 12:22am
Thread Starter 
It reminds me of the minimum requirements for being pope. Any Catholic male that has been baptized is eligible, but in reality, he also has to be a cardinal.
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post #38 of 59
4/10/10 at 1:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdHocken View Post
Also, Kagan isn't gay
Word on the street is she's in the glass closet.

Also, lol @ "Ivy League cronyism."
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post #39 of 59
4/10/10 at 11:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pompoussory Estoppel View Post
Yes there is.

It's not the quality of the education, but rather the diversity of the education. MIT and Harvard are within the same state. Good universities don't just come from New England.

For once, I'd like to see an economist from a Big Ten or SEC school have a major role in policy making instead of some asshat from the Ivy League conferring with another asshat from the Ivy League.
You need to get over this. It's not going to happen. Ivy League (and comparable) schooling is, for various reasons, and rightly or wrongly, a heuristic of intellectual horse power.

Further, I dispute your contention that the quality of education at, for example, Cardozo, is of the same caliber as that from, say, Northwestern University, Yale, or The University of Chicago. Going to law school isn't about learning the law--that's what the bar exam is for. Law school is about teaching students how to think like a lawyer.

Chances are, you're going to be a better lawyer after having had a class with Judge Posner, Judge Easterbrook, Prof. Richard Epstein, and Prof. Cass Sunstein.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angles View Post
State governments are a different story. Florida's three branches are predominantly run by UF alums, with a few FSU grads here and there.
I rest my case.
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post #40 of 59
4/10/10 at 12:02pm
What he said, minus the unnecessary crack at Cardozo. That's one of the top intellectual property and family law schools in the country, buddy.
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post #41 of 59
4/10/10 at 12:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RathBandu View Post
What he said, minus the unnecessary crack at Cardozo. That's one of the top intellectual property and family law schools in the country, buddy.
I meant no disrespect. I know many brilliant lawyers from Cardozo, not to mention Loyola, etc. I also know terrible people from Yale, Harvard, and Stanford.

As with anything, there are always exceptions to rules.
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post #42 of 59
4/10/10 at 1:33pm
This may be 'mean', but sorry, I have to say it



So apparently she is a front runner for the pick


Why is he choosing someone in obviously poor health after having previously chosen a diabetic? Bush chose a couple of morally backwards but ox strong thugs in their fifties for the SC. Obama needs to choose people who will last into the next century, not die of heart disease in 15 years
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post #43 of 59
4/10/10 at 1:38pm
As Long as Sonya Sotomayor outlasts 70+ year old Scalia, its fine.

Obama's next pick has to out last 62 year old Thomas.
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post #44 of 59
4/10/10 at 3:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spook View Post
Further, I dispute your contention that the quality of education at, for example, Cardozo, is of the same caliber as that from, say, Northwestern University, Yale, or The University of Chicago. Going to law school isn't about learning the law--that's what the bar exam is for. Law school is about teaching students how to think like a lawyer.

Chances are, you're going to be a better lawyer after having had a class with Judge Posner, Judge Easterbrook, Prof. Richard Epstein, and Prof. Cass Sunstein.
Bullshit. I got a JD at a TTT and I got my LL.M in tax at a top tier school in Boston. Anyone who claims there's a significant difference between the two schools is just fooling themselves. I noticed no discernible difference in the faculty, materials, or students. Except for a palatable sense of entitlement and arrogance from the kids who went to the top-tier.
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post #45 of 59
4/10/10 at 3:14pm
Wow, lot of butthurt lawyers up in here.

To put it bluntly, when you go to a top tier school -- assuming you've gotten in, of course, part of what you're paying for is the prestige and the "entitlement" that you have a degree from HSY as opposed to a really good state school. This is also how film schools work.

You know who I would nominate? Iggy. He'd be able to make the law and quiz Alito on torture porn. Win!
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post #46 of 59
4/11/10 at 12:24am
Thread Starter 
If by "entitlement," you also mean a better chance of landing a federal judicial clerkship, a Federal Legal Honors internship, an eventual law professor job, or a BigLaw gig without being tied down to a particular state/region, then yes I agree with you.

The top student from just about any law school will have many of those ultra-competitive job opportunities. The higher ranked schools offer those same opportunities to more of their students. You can graduate middle-of-the-pack from Yale without any journal experience and still get an assistant professor job a few years after graduation.

Ideally, law students would get a full-ride to the school they love, in a great town, and get hired into their dream job after graduation. This doesn't happen very often.
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post #47 of 59
4/11/10 at 11:43am
It's interesting that neither of you discussed what Spook's point was. Namely, that top-tier schools are inherently better legal educators. Frankly, that's nonsense.

And of course bigger "name" schools have better opportunities. Take advantage, that's fine. But no one owes you anything because you went to Harvard. You're not entitled to a Big Law job or a big salary. Thinking you deserve all of that, well, that just makes you a self-entitled douchebag.
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post #48 of 59
4/11/10 at 11:49am
Ultimately, it comes down to who's willing to rack up the most billable hours. That's the guy who's going to get promoted. My best friend went to Harvard and works at a big firm in the South, and he routinely bills the most hours of all the associates at his level, because he knows that's what will get him noticed by one of the East Coast firms.
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post #49 of 59
4/11/10 at 11:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RathBandu View Post
Ultimately, it comes down to who's willing to rack up the most billable hours. That's the guy who's going to get promoted. My best friend went to Harvard and works at a big firm in the South, and he routinely bills the most hours of all the associates at his level, because he knows that's what will get him noticed by one of the East Coast firms.
That's exactly it. It's all about how many hours you bill -- particularly with firms laying off left and right. It also helps to be in a obscure but valuable practice group. My girlfriend does ERISA/Employee Benefits/Executive Comp and she'll be very mobile once the legal recession moves on a bit.
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post #50 of 59
4/11/10 at 12:02pm
My girlfriend (who I've mentioned a bunch lately but I swear she's real guys she lives in Canada*) is going to law school for a similar field. Ultimately, she wants to work for a fashion house or someplace like DC for intellectual property, and she knows that by being the very best in a small field, she'll stand out. Which is why she went with Cardozo, although she still plans to work her ass off and apply for the HSY triumverate if she's in the top five of her class in a year.

*not really
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