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"Why do white people like OFFICE SPACE so much?"

post #1 of 80
4/13/10 at 2:36pm
Thread Starter 
This is a question that was posed by my black co-worker. I was kind of taken aback, firstly due to the fact that racially-related conversations in the work-place can lead to trouble (and I just had orientation yesterday) and secondly, isn't the humor in OFFICE SPACE universal for anyone who's worked in an office? My workplace is corporate owned (albeit more casual than most office environments) and still prone to the same redtape, politics, over-management, and BS busywork as seen in that movie.

I know that there can be genre preferences when discussing culture and film (Indians love musicals), but everyone loves comedy to some degree. Sure certain jokes may get lost in translation across borders or when there's a language barrier, but... OFFICE SPACE? That shit's hilarious.

Is it the "juxtaposed" rap soundtrack? Don't afro-centric comedies feature "drudgery" like Mike Judge's cult classic? Is the cast "too white"? Is it due to the main character's undeserved success?

Theories?

I know different regions and social/economic groups appreciate different kinds of humor (example: I hear the Blue Collar comedians are BIG down South), and that humor is sooooo subjective (OFFICE SPACE became a cult classic after it hit vid), but why don't certain comedies cross racial boundaries?

Or am I generalizing? Maybe this co-worker of mine is a fluke or was wrong to make assumptions ("white people like OS, but black people don't"). Do white people watch comedy like THIS and black people watch comedy like THAT?

I hope I don't regret this thread. I avoided the conversation at work, but I'm genuinely curious.

EDIT: I hope Diva pops in and puts me straight. She usually has great insight on this stuff.
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post #2 of 80
4/13/10 at 2:46pm
I'm going to chalk this thread up to stupid comment + white guilt = whitey spending 45 minutes re-examining what he believes.
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post #3 of 80
4/13/10 at 2:50pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Ripoll View Post
I'm going to chalk this thread up to stupid comment + white guilt = whitey spending 45 minutes re-examining what he believes.
Maybe? But I still think there's something there to discuss. If it's just an ignorant question that doesn't require addressing, we can let it die. I'll still be confused though.
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post #4 of 80
4/13/10 at 2:53pm
I like picturing your white panic at the idea of debating a movie with a black guy. In my version, you're keeping one hand on your wallet the entire time.

Honestly, the guy probably has lower taste in comedy. Because he's black.
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post #5 of 80
4/13/10 at 2:54pm
Well I'm not sure it's a white/black thing, but Office Space is much funnier if you can relate to it.

In other words, ask him why black people like Madea. That'll shut him up!
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post #6 of 80
4/13/10 at 2:54pm
It is a very "white problems" film, though.
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post #7 of 80
4/13/10 at 2:56pm
Not enough Orlando Jones.
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post #8 of 80
4/13/10 at 2:56pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil View Post
I like picturing your white panic at the idea of debating a movie with a black guy. In my version, you're keeping one hand on your wallet the entire time.
C'mon! It's not like that at all. I didn't even bring up the racial element in that conversation. I was just left staring like a deer in the headlights.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Riviello View Post
It is a very "white problems" film, though.
Ok, now we're getting somewhere. Why though? The guys lives in an apartment, works in an office, and is dating a girl who just quit waiting on tables. They watch kung-fu together! It's not RUNNING WITH SCISSORS or THE ROYAL TENENBAUMS.
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post #9 of 80
4/13/10 at 2:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Riviello View Post
It is a very "white problems" film, though.
This. Also see my thread on Pribbles. Kinda hard to find humor in job problems when you don't got a job. Which I suppose is more of a class issue, but race and class issues in America are so often intertwined.

ETA: Judge has a special sort of humor that takes time to warm up to. I HATED Office Space when i first saw it (and yes, white people showed it to me). But I came around as I got older and actually had experience working in an office and interacting with people like the stapler guy, as well as having the ability to understand the subtle humor.
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post #10 of 80
4/13/10 at 2:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Riviello View Post
It is a very "white problems" film, though.
Except the person who said this is also an employee in Darkmite's office, so it's not like he's from the ghetto and the idea of annoying employees and bosses and copiers that don't work is completely foreign to him.
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post #11 of 80
4/13/10 at 2:58pm
As a white person, I too would like to know why white people like Office Space so much. It's not very good, even though it mines very fertile ground.
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post #12 of 80
4/13/10 at 2:59pm
Darkmite has LOTS of black friends!! (laughing with you, not at you DM)

Definitely not a conversation I'd want to have with a new co-worker.

As for the answer, I don't know how you unpack all of the sociological factors that go into explaining why a particular piece of entertainment is more appealing to one demo vs. another, beyond very basic stuff (most of the stars are white).
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post #13 of 80
4/13/10 at 3:01pm
I have a white friend who watched it with a group of people who all found it hilarious. He didn't. At the end we talked about why it's so funny, and how parts of it are very relatable to pretty much every office job. He said, "I'd find a different line of work if I had to deal with that." He's a scientist see, and he works in a ivory tower somewhere curing cancer. He had no point of reference.

Maybe your black coworker is confused because it's only the people he works with who like Office Space and they're all white.
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post #14 of 80
4/13/10 at 3:03pm
Another thought is that the opening scene with Michael Bolton rolling up his window as his car passes a Black guy kinda makes any Black person watching the film feel Othered.
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post #15 of 80
4/13/10 at 3:04pm
You should have just gotten all flustered and yelled something about being sorry that it wasn't directed by Spike Lee while trying to leave the room as quickly as possible. That's how I deal with black people.
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post #16 of 80
4/13/10 at 3:04pm
Just some facts to throw out: Tyler Perry's "Why Did I Get Married 2" made almost 30 million dollars its opening weekend, and has almost cleared 50 million. The reason for Perry's sucess is due to many factors, some including strong grass-roots marketing, branding and writing to a particular audience. Office Space's opening weekend was 4 million, and made only 10 million total. However, its a quirky little movie from the "Beavis and Butthead" fella who drew upon his own experiences of cube dwelling.

The rap songs in the film probably catch the ear of people who would otherwise not be interested in a Judge film about Y2K compliance programmers, but due to a lack of connection and the Orlando Jones character pretending to be a crackhead selling magazines probably turned your co-worker off to it.

Also, Sarah Silverman, who once guest starred on a two-part episode of Star Trek: Voyager said she was shocked to learn that most people who want to talk to her about that part are black. She posed the question "Why do black people like Star Trek so much?"

That's all I've got.
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post #17 of 80
4/13/10 at 3:04pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Ripoll View Post
Except the person who said this is also an employee in Darkmite's office, so it's not like he's from the ghetto and the idea of annoying employees and bosses and copiers that don't work is completely foreign to him.
Exactly why I'm confused.
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post #18 of 80
4/13/10 at 3:11pm
LD may be onto something here.

It has become kind of a cult movie, and its popularity in certain circles exceeds its actual merits due to that cult status. There are almost certainly black people in that "cult," but most of the members are white because this is a movie starring Ron Livington and Jennifer Anniston, two of the whitest people alive.

So what your co-worker might mean is: the movie isn't funny enough to justify this cult following among (what I perceive to be almost exclusively) white people.
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post #19 of 80
4/13/10 at 3:13pm
I'm confused why Patrick thinks someone from the ghetto can't work in the office. Not everyone who lives in poor neighborhoods are gangbangers. Sometimes, you're from the wrong side of the tracks and trying to make a life for yourself. You may work in an office, but that doesn't mean you feel comfortable there or know office norms and customs.
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post #20 of 80
4/13/10 at 3:16pm
Maybe he was referring to former residents of the Krakow ghetto. Those folks are probably too old to know what the fuck a copier is.
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post #21 of 80
4/13/10 at 3:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diva View Post
Sometimes, you're from the wrong side of the tracks and trying to make a life for yourself. You may work in an office, but that doesn't mean you feel comfortable there or know office norms and customs.
And not always even when you're from the right side of the tracks. I grew up solidly middle/upper middle class. Landed my first office/corporate job when I was 32 - and most definitely felt like a kid at the grown ups' table during a holiday meal. I had NO idea about the norms and customs, and it's not like they're posted somewhere.

I made some really hideous social blunders my first couple of years.
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post #22 of 80
4/13/10 at 3:19pm
Yeah, I have some co-workers that live in pretty 'hood areas (like Watts and Boyle Heights and shit), and they haven't moved away due to family ties/obligations/cheap rent/etc.

I don't begrudge anyone for it at all, but it kinda sucks to hear firsthand accounts of some of the stuff that goes down in the more infamous parts of town.
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post #23 of 80
4/13/10 at 3:20pm
Somewhere between Brian M and Alex lies the truth. I'd also add there's a passive/aggressive element to that movie that's very much a "white" thing, one that typically, you don't see in black culture.
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post #24 of 80
4/13/10 at 3:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelM View Post
And not always even when you're from the right side of the tracks. I grew up solidly middle/upper middle class. Landed my first office/corporate job when I was 32 - and most definitely felt like a kid at the grown ups' table during a holiday meal. I had NO idea about the norms and customs, and it's not like they're posted somewhere.

I made some really hideous social blunders my first couple of years.
Totally. I always feel like a fish out of water in office jobs. I can hold my own now after years in the workforce, but I certainly would not be able to work in a corporate office. I've always been in small to medium sized companies where I knew everyone's names. Those nameless, faceless cubicle type jobs scare the shit out of me.
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post #25 of 80
4/13/10 at 3:27pm
I think Alex pretty much got it. It's not so much about working in an office as it is about the suburbanite office drone experience, which is a whole different thing. If you add a very specific thematic focus with Judge's very specific style of comedy, for the most part you're only going to draw in viewers who can relate to the thin-walled Ikea existence of suburbia. Most of whom are white.
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post #26 of 80
4/13/10 at 3:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diva View Post
I'm confused why Patrick thinks someone from the ghetto can't work in the office. Not everyone who lives in poor neighborhoods are gangbangers. Sometimes, you're from the wrong side of the tracks and trying to make a life for yourself. You may work in an office, but that doesn't mean you feel comfortable there or know office norms and customs.
Maybe he does live in a poor neighborhood, but I don't assume that just because he's black. There's no info either way.
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post #27 of 80
4/13/10 at 3:29pm
The more I think about it, the more I'm sticking with the class issue. Embezzling money and planting computer viruses are not really lower class humor. If I have a shitty retail job, I wouldn't consider annoying coworkers and a broken copier "problems". I'd just be happy there was a company willing to pay me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Ripoll View Post
Maybe he does live in a poor neighborhood, but I don't assume that just because he's black. There's no info either way.
Your saying "its not like he's from the ghetto" pretty much suggests you think he's middle class. I was saying that is not necessarily the case.
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post #28 of 80
4/13/10 at 3:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Banks is my hero View Post
I think Alex pretty much got it. It's not so much about working in an office as it is about the suburbanite office drone experience, which is a whole different thing. If you add a very specific thematic focus with Judge's very specific style of comedy, for the most part you're only going to draw in viewers who can relate to the thin-walled Ikea existence of suburbia. Most of whom are white.
I first saw it in highschool long before I'd ever set foot in an office of any kind. I think it's just funny. I have a hard time believing that a black person who sat down and watched would be unable to see the humor.
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post #29 of 80
4/13/10 at 3:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diva View Post
Your saying "its not like he's from the ghetto" pretty much suggests you think he's middle class. I was saying that is not necessarily the case.
There's middle ground in between ghetto and middle class, but I see your point. At any rate I am far less qualified than you to say why black people wouldn't like Office Space, so I'm not going to keep pressing the issue. The original post just felt like a bizarre comment taken too seriously, and made me laugh.
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post #30 of 80
4/13/10 at 3:36pm
When white people make subversive office comedies they're all like:

"So, Peter, what's happening? Aahh, now, are you going to go ahead and have those TPS reports for us this afternoon? "

But when a brother does it, he's all...
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post #31 of 80
4/13/10 at 3:38pm
Office Space is a dead horse. I caught it on TV a few years back and found it nearly unwatchable, mostly because the funny moments - which are more scant than I remembered - have all been beaten to death by the same types of people the movie tries to lampoon. So maybe your new friend just has good taste.

I like Judge well enough, but his jokes do come from very white places: Texas and New Mexico! Maybe my current opinion is colored by my experience with Extract, which I found inert and even a little anti-worker, but I can sorta see why some consider OS a white people movie.
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post #32 of 80
4/13/10 at 3:40pm
This is reference to Patrick's post:

I don't think I'm any more qualified to discuss than you. It's all speculation. I just don't think that working in an office is a good indicator that someone would like this film. While on the surface the film is about office life, as Alex and others have pointed out, the movie is steeped in a much broader context that implicates a social network that is very white suburbia. Even though I've worked in offices, I don't identify with any of the people or office life that those characters experience.
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post #33 of 80
4/13/10 at 3:41pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diva View Post
Another thought is that the opening scene with Michael Bolton rolling up his window as his car passes a Black guy kinda makes any Black person watching the film feel Othered.
I kinda get that, but I always thought the scene was kinda laughing AT the absurdity and self-consciousness of Michael Bolton.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
Office Space is a dead horse. I caught it on TV a few years back and found it nearly unwatchable, mostly because the funny moments - which are more scant than I remembered - have all been beaten to death by the same types of people the movie tries to lampoon. So maybe your new friend just has good taste.

I like Judge well enough, but his jokes do come from very white places: Texas and New Mexico! Maybe my current opinion is colored by my experience with Extract, which I found inert and even a little anti-worker, but I can sorta see why some consider OS a white people movie.
I can see your point about EXTRACT, but I think the real-life conterparts of OS only reinforce the humor.
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post #34 of 80
4/13/10 at 3:41pm
I've never even worked in an office. I feel you're slightly more qualified than me. I just like the movie because it's funny.
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post #35 of 80
4/13/10 at 3:42pm
I'm apparently old fashioned in thinking that making sweeping statements about ethnicities is in most cases unhelpful and kind of twattish.

I saw Office Space before I'd ever worked in an office and found it hilarious. Along with Galaxy Quest that was one of my great 'only bothered to watch it cos I was bored and it popped up on tv' surprise discoveries.

I'm not sure how anyone could see the winding-up-the-window bit as anything other than a joke at Bolton's expense.
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post #36 of 80
4/13/10 at 3:49pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul C View Post
I'm apparently old fashioned in thinking that making sweeping statements about ethnicities is in most cases unhelpful and kind of twattish.
I hope this isn't directed at me. I'm just trying to analyze.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diva View Post
The more I think about it, the more I'm sticking with the class issue. Embezzling money and planting computer viruses are not really lower class humor.
True, but what about hating your job? Apathy? Aren't they universal regardless of class?
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post #37 of 80
4/13/10 at 3:51pm
Maybe black people are sticklers for third acts that don't completely fall apart.
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post #38 of 80
4/13/10 at 3:53pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt M View Post
Maybe black people are sticklers for third acts that don't completely fall apart.
I'll ask if he likes BATMAN BEGINS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evi View Post
In other words, ask him why black people like Madea. That'll shut him up!
You're onto something. OFFICE SPACE doesn't feature a single transvestite in a fat suit. See also Eddie Murphy and Martin Lawrence.
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post #39 of 80
4/13/10 at 3:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcassady View Post
When white people make subversive office comedies they're all like:

"So, Peter, what's happening? Aahh, now, are you going to go ahead and have those TPS reports for us this afternoon? "

But when a brother does it, he's all...
White people beat up printers like this, and black people just use guns.
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post #40 of 80
4/13/10 at 3:53pm
They should make a sequel about the all black cleaning crew that works in the office every night. One of them can be coincidentally named Wayne Brady.
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post #41 of 80
4/13/10 at 3:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DARKMITE8 View Post
I hope this isn't directed at me. I'm just trying to analyze.
It was directed more at your colleague, you silly goose.
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post #42 of 80
4/13/10 at 3:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DARKMITE8 View Post
I kinda get that, but I always thought the scene was kinda laughing AT the absurdity and self-consciousness of Michael Bolton.
It is, but it still takes you aback. Like, "is that what White people think of us?" It's just another sign that some people think you are different and aren't comfortable enough around you to be themselves. And then you start thinking what if all White people are like that. It can kinda get under your skin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Ripoll View Post
I've never even worked in an office. I feel you're slightly more qualified than me. I just like the movie because it's funny.
Well, funny is subjective. I've never found the film to be LOL funny and it certainly took me several viewings to even come around on it. I can only respond to it now having experienced some of what the characters endured, and laugh in a "Yup, that's happened to me" way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DARKMITE8 View Post
True, but what about hating your job? Apathy? Aren't they universal regardless of class?
It's about hating a particular type of job and one that I didn't understand until I actually experienced. It doesn't translate well to other types of job experiences.
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post #43 of 80
4/13/10 at 3:57pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug View Post
They should make a sequel about the all black cleaning crew that works in the office every night. One of them can be coincidentally named Wayne Brady.
But it burnt down overnight, you sadist!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diva View Post
It's about hating a particular type of job and one that I didn't understand until I actually experienced.
Maybe. But I watch DIRTY JOBS on tv every once in a while and cringe despite never having done those things first hand. Empathy VS sympathy.
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post #44 of 80
4/13/10 at 4:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DARKMITE8 View Post
But it burnt down overnight, you sadist!!!

Maybe. But I watch DIRTY JOBS on tv every once in a while and cringe despite never having done those things first hand. Empathy VS sympathy.
Again, everyone can understand what's happening on Dirty Jobs. They are generally the most basic jobs around. Even if you've never cleaned elephant poop, you can imagine doing so. Embezzling money and hacking computers does not translate the same way. You have to have some knowledge of finances and computers to get what's happening.
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post #45 of 80
4/13/10 at 4:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diva View Post
Again, everyone can understand what's happening on Dirty Jobs. They are generally the most basic jobs around. Even if you've never cleaned elephant poop, you can imagine doing so. Embezzling money and hacking computers does not translate the same way. You have to have some knowledge of finances and computers to get what's happening.
Or watched Superman 3! That had Richard Pryor.
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post #46 of 80
4/13/10 at 4:27pm
I've never seen Superman 3. But I can admit that I still have no idea what the hell is going on at the end of Trading Places. I laugh at Murphy trying to "act White" and then get distracted by boobies, so overall I enjoy the film. Maybe if Aniston showed her tits, Black people would like Office Space better.
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post #47 of 80
4/13/10 at 4:29pm
Are you saying white people don't like tits? WTF.
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post #48 of 80
4/13/10 at 5:20pm
There seems to be an implied acknowledgment of your co-worker's point. Just because you're black doesn't mean you aren't full of shit when talking about black people. I know a good deal of black engineers, including my dad, who is 'from the ghetto' that love Office Space. Blacks are underrepresented in the jobs most relevant to Office Space, not getting it has nothing to do with being black.

I also have serious doubts about the incredibly minor racial slights that are present in the film. Usually there are much more racially egregious things in films than locking the car on some guy trying to sell you shit while you are stuck in traffic.

The all white cast is most likely a factor though. If it was a mainstream hit, that would be a different story, but there are plenty of cult black films to choose from instead. Especially when the white cult film is about nerds in cube farms who hate their well-paid jobs. Remind me again why this was such a shocking revelation?
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post #49 of 80
4/13/10 at 5:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan J View Post
The all white cast is most likely a factor though.


Samir is judging you.
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post #50 of 80
4/13/10 at 5:41pm
Arab-Americans and people from the Middle East are considered "White" in America.
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