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Madonna

post #1 of 99
4/17/10 at 12:58pm
Thread Starter 
The original pop diva, female icon, she's up there with Michael Jackson. I listened to Madonna's first three albums recently and it surprises me how well they've held up, although some of her songs do sound disctinctly eighties. You can hear songcraft improve with each album, her debut was a simple, pop driven album, each album after that seemed to get more and more ambitious.

So consider this a thread to discuss her music, her impact on pop culture, have at it.
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post #2 of 99
4/17/10 at 1:47pm
I think she was great at being a provocative pop artist for about 20 years. For me, she lost her balls when she pulled the American Life video off the air at a time when a national dialogue on the war was needed the most. Ever since then, she's just been turning out dance music retreads. She's just not cutting edge anymore. Mamma Mia! on Broadway played the Abba card years before she did "Hung Up." After watching her bite off the success of people like Justin Timberlake and give her entire catalogue to Glee, it's clear how desperate she is lately.

There's really no point in paying attention to her when there's someone like Lady Gaga, who not only is a more consistent singer than Madonna, but who seems to have an endless stream of creativity. She treats every moment of camera time as performance art. To me, all Madonna is these days is a businesswoman.
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post #3 of 99
4/17/10 at 1:52pm
I like her early stuff. You know, 'Lucky Star', 'Borderline' - but once she got into her 'Papa Don't Preach' phase, I don't know, I tuned out.
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post #4 of 99
4/17/10 at 1:55pm
She's one of the few artists I'd be perfectly happy with buying a greatest hits set of. Her music has been too scattershot since Ray of Light, IMHO.
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post #5 of 99
4/17/10 at 1:56pm
This MTV moment will always be special:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avCE7lKMO9c

Up there with MJ at Motown 25th for star-making pop culture impact.
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post #6 of 99
4/17/10 at 2:13pm
Love. She's had her ups and downs, but she still gets heavy rotation on my iPod. Her 80's stuff holds up better than her 90's stuff with the Aughts solidly in between. Also, the dance hits are far superior to her ballads. At age 50, though, I beg her to stop wearing spandex bodysuits.

My favorite songs in order of album release:

Holiday - Like a Virgin* (This is solidly my #1 Madge song)
Into the Groove - Like a Virgin
Like a Prayer - Like a Prayer
La Isla Bonita - True Blue
Vogue - The Immaculate Collection
Deeper and Deeper - Erotica
What It Feels Like For a Girl - Music
Sorry - Confessions on a Dance Floor
Get Together - Confessions on a Dance Floor
4 Minutes - Hard Candy

Bonus: Me Against the Music - In the Zone (technically it's a Britney's record)

But I really love Madonna's live concerts because she is the queen of mash ups. Two that I wish I could download:

1. During an encore in one of her concerts (the exact one escapes me right now), she sang "Holiday" over the music to Stardust's "Music Sounds Better with You".

2. In her Confessions tour, Madge mashed "Music" with "Disco Inferno".
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post #7 of 99
4/17/10 at 3:39pm
Back in the 80's, I happened to see a couple of her shows (because the opening acts were on the label I was working for), and she certainly knows how to construct a performance-- very impressive.

I don't think I actually own any of her albums, but I do like a few songs here and there.
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post #8 of 99
4/17/10 at 11:03pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainZahn View Post
There's really no point in paying attention to her when there's someone like Lady Gaga, who not only is a more consistent singer than Madonna, but who seems to have an endless stream of creativity. She treats every moment of camera time as performance art. To me, all Madonna is these days is a businesswoman.
I'll agree with her losing her edge, she's been in the music biz for over 20 years now, she had to lose it at some point, it's not the eighties anymore. It's also a shame she's obsessed with her body, she was insanely hot back in the day, now....
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post #9 of 99
4/17/10 at 11:40pm
Only album I own or have ever really needed in entirety is Something To Remember.
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post #10 of 99
4/18/10 at 1:11am
I always thought "Live to Tell" was one of the great overlooked Madonna songs. Sure, it went to #1, but you don't hear people talking about it the way they talk about some of her other songs. It's a really great showcase for her voice, and the video is nicely understated and lets the song just speak for itself.
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post #11 of 99
4/18/10 at 1:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Elvis View Post
This MTV moment will always be special:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avCE7lKMO9c

Up there with MJ at Motown 25th for star-making pop culture impact.
I'll never forget the moment I saw that. I was in Coast Guard A School, and we were all gathered in the lounge. There was a collective sense of "Holy shit, is she really doing that on national television?!".

I wasn't fond of her first album (and I'm still not), but she grew quickly, actually taking the trouble to learn how to sing. And the constant reinvention of herself was a marvel to watch over the years.

My wife was a big admirer of hers for years. She even bought the Sex book.

The controversy she generated by daring to suggest that it's okay for women to openly enjoy sex seems pretty ridiculous now. I wonder how many of these young girls writhing about in music today realize how much they owe Madonna.
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post #12 of 99
4/18/10 at 3:54am
Thread Starter 
I came across this interview of Madonna during her Like a Virgin phase, it's interesting to see her talking about her music, influences etc compared to her reiuctance later on when she really took off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fj1fSFNlZus

Plus, she lays the smackdown on John oates, which is pretty cool.
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post #13 of 99
4/18/10 at 12:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg David View Post
My wife was a big admirer of hers for years. She even bought the Sex book.
I will never forget the time I was in Waldenbooks about 10 years ago, and two guys walked in asking for the book. The first thought I had was 'these guys don't have the internet?'.
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post #14 of 99
4/19/10 at 3:08am
I like her, mostly because my sisters were in love with her in the 80's/90's. Her entire discography is more than solid but I think her musical zenith is the arc of Bedtime Stories, Ray of Light, and Music. Ray of Light still holds up after all these years, especially the subtle songs from that album like "Drowned World/Substitute for Love" and "Little Star."
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post #15 of 99
4/19/10 at 5:02am
Personally, I think she was already pushing the edge of irrelevance by Ray of Light. She was at the height of her power and cultural impact in the late eighties through early nineties. Ray of Light and Music were nice, but hardly pushing any envelopes. Maybe there was no more envelope for her to push, or she'd already torn it. I just wasn't feeling the impact anymore.
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post #16 of 99
4/19/10 at 5:15am
Despite my younger age (at least, I presume in a topic about the cultural impact of Madonna), I have to agree with Greg David in that it felt like she was beyond her point of relevance with "Ray of Light."

Even though I was not around for her real cultural zeitgeist, I was aware of her and her impact and was more like "Oh, so Madonna's still around, eh?" than anything else. Interesting, but nothing too fascinating to me or my generation.

However, I do dig a lot of her earlier work. Just my two cents.
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post #17 of 99
4/19/10 at 7:13am
See maybe irrelevant in terms of music, but she's still probably the biggest over 50 star in the world. Lady Gaga will have to do a helluva lot in the next 10-15 years to match her superstardom.
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post #18 of 99
4/19/10 at 10:17am
Confessions on the Dance Floor is a solid album all the way through, spawned several #1 singles and gets heavy rotation in dance clubs to this day. I think she made a huge comeback with that album. Sales for that tour were through the roof and it was so popular it aired as a 3 hour special on network TV. I think she marked herself as quite relevant with that album and basically told the world she ain't going anywhere anytime soon.

ETA: From Wiki

Quote:
According to Billboard and tour producer Arthur Fogel, the tour grossed over US$193.7 million from 60 shows and 1.2 million audience, becoming highest grossing tour ever for a female artist and breaking the record previously held by Cher for her Living Proof: The Farewell Tour (2002–2005).[26][27] Confessions Tour also received the "Most Creative Stage Production" at the Pollstar Concert Industry Awards.[29], as well as, "Top Boxscore" from the Billboard Touring Awards.
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post #19 of 99
4/19/10 at 10:45am
She has a very loyal fanbase, no question. And no question she's still a huge star. But she no longer has that level of fame or relevance to the person in the street she had 20+ years ago. Nobody ever name checks COTDF as one of the great pop albums, where they might her more seminal works
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post #20 of 99
4/19/10 at 11:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
I always thought "Live to Tell" was one of the great overlooked Madonna songs. Sure, it went to #1, but you don't hear people talking about it the way they talk about some of her other songs. It's a really great showcase for her voice, and the video is nicely understated and lets the song just speak for itself.
Yeah, I've always liked that one lots, too. Bill Frisell does a nice, extended instrumental cover of it.

Unlike Diva, I'm more partial to the ballads (which I suspect is generally the case with guys who don't dance much). At least the 80s and early 90s stuff.
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post #21 of 99
4/19/10 at 12:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Love Machine View Post
She has a very loyal fanbase, no question. And no question she's still a huge star. But she no longer has that level of fame or relevance to the person in the street she had 20+ years ago. Nobody ever name checks COTDF as one of the great pop albums, where they might her more seminal works
Yeah, but it was more than her fan base going to that concert. That's why I cited her televised special. That album was HUGE and put her back on the map in a big way. Madonna was everywhere in 2006-7.

Madonna still knows how to make waves. Her kiss with Britney at the 2003 MTV Movie Awards is one of the most iconic images in music in the past decade. Madonna keeps herself relevant in ways that few artists know how to do. Unfortunately, the music industry is so massive these days its hard for anyone to have a major impact anymore. Lady Gaga gets more attention for crazy outfits than music, but she's not doing anything that Madonna didn't already do. We'll see if anyone remembers her in 10 years. I don't think she has the staying power that Madonna does.
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post #22 of 99
4/19/10 at 5:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diva View Post
Lady Gaga gets more attention for crazy outfits than music, but she's not doing anything that Madonna didn't already do. We'll see if anyone remembers her in 10 years. I don't think she has the staying power that Madonna does.
Lady Gaga's music isn't the most innovative thing about her, but what I dig about her is the way she tweaks the meanings of her songs through her videos and live performances. It's so much more interesting than what most pop acts are going for right now.
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post #23 of 99
4/19/10 at 5:28pm
Madonna does that as well. In her televised Confessions concert, she had guys dressed as horses, with leather chaps and bits in their mouths, and rode them around the stage. It was like a scene straight out of a fetish mag. I remember being shocked this was airing on network TV.

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post #24 of 99
4/19/10 at 5:51pm
I don't really have anything positive to say about what Madonna's been doing lately, so I'll just focus on the years when I was totally entertained by her...

Johnny Carson interview

Madonna spars with Letterman

Why's It So Hard? (Girlie Show 1993)

And pretty much everything here until the end of 2003: http://www.madonnalicious.com/downloads.html
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post #25 of 99
4/20/10 at 6:33am
Thread Starter 
No-one stays on top forever, it's just the nature of the business, the fact that she's managed to stay relevant for over 20 years is still pretty impressive.
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post #26 of 99
4/20/10 at 5:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NathanW View Post
No-one stays on top forever, it's just the nature of the business, the fact that she's managed to stay relevant for over 20 years is still pretty impressive.
Oh, totally. I'm less bothered by the fact that she's run out of new material than I am her body dysmorphia and general desperation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Diva View Post
Madonna does that as well.
Right, but I think that what Gaga does is on another level. It's performance art. She's deconstructing fame and celebrity.
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post #27 of 99
4/20/10 at 5:19pm
I think you give Gaga too much credit.
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post #28 of 99
4/20/10 at 11:12pm
Man-donna? She just needs a cigar to go with that mustache.

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post #29 of 99
4/20/10 at 11:33pm
C'mon, do we really want to reduce the tribute thread to an iconic female artist to making fun of her looks?

My favorite underrated Madonna ballad: "Crazy For You".
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post #30 of 99
4/20/10 at 11:38pm
Sorry. It's more of being disappointed in her looks than making fun of her. I thought she was hot back in the day. But now...

No need for the plastic surgery, Madge.
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post #31 of 99
4/21/10 at 12:15am
My fave Madonna video:

'Don't Tell Me' (and, yeah, she was still hot back in 2000)
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post #32 of 99
4/21/10 at 1:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainZahn View Post
Right, but I think that what Gaga does is on another level. It's performance art. She's deconstructing fame and celebrity.
It's not another level. It's been done. Guess by whom.
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post #33 of 99
4/21/10 at 6:24am
Thread Starter 
Another really good Madonna ballad is Take a Bow, I always liked that one.
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post #34 of 99
4/21/10 at 3:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg David View Post
It's not another level. It's been done. Guess by whom.
Madonna did this 24/7? In every interview? Any time there was a camera on her?
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post #35 of 99
4/21/10 at 3:36pm
So, I'm still the only straight guy on the planet who still gets throat lumpy during This Used To Be My Playground?

Just checking. Moving on.
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post #36 of 99
4/21/10 at 3:59pm
"Lucky Star" is my favorite video ever.
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post #37 of 99
4/21/10 at 4:06pm
Buckets of boners for this woman when I was growing up. I blame her for my fixation on blondes. Also, one helluva talent.
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post #38 of 99
4/21/10 at 4:17pm
The fact that she thinks her body looks better now than it did here (the shot at 1:32, daaamn) is just sad.

It's not the fact that she's muscular now that bothers me, it's that she seems terrified of having an ounce of fat on her body.
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post #39 of 99
4/21/10 at 7:20pm
Eh, Kylie Minogue does sexy dance pop way better.
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post #40 of 99
4/21/10 at 7:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainZahn View Post
Madonna did this 24/7? In every interview? Any time there was a camera on her?
Kind of, yeah. So did Bowie. So did Andy Kaufman.

Seriously, the "deconstructing fame and celebrity" trope is played out. I'm waiting for a post-deconstructing fame and celebrity celebrity who deconstructs deconstructing fame and celebrity.

In all fairness, all of these people (except maybe Kaufman) are basically just musicians who found a conveniently hip device in the form of "celebrity deconstruction." Bowie was a folk musician, Madonna was a dancer (who fell into the singing thing), Gaga was a struggling singer-songwriter. None of them are conceptual artists who just picked music as their medium of choice. They're musicians with a gimmick.
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post #41 of 99
4/21/10 at 8:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveB View Post
Seriously, the "deconstructing fame and celebrity" trope is played out.
No kidding. The number of otherwise discerning people who see Lady Gaga's schtick as edgy or transgressive is alarming.
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post #42 of 99
4/21/10 at 10:54pm
I don't even care about GaGa's "deconstructing fame and celebrity" shtick. I like her music. So there.

And, honestly, I don't think her music is all that revolutionary or new. In fact, her best stuff seems to be when she apes all of her influences in one full wallop. But she does it so damn well. It's fresh to my ears, even though I realize the world of Lady GaGa is all smoke and mirrors. It's pop performance art in 2010. The "art" in that equation is where the lines are drawn between those goo-goo for GaGa (people like me) and those who are turned off by her act.
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post #43 of 99
4/22/10 at 3:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainZahn View Post
Madonna did this 24/7? In every interview? Any time there was a camera on her?
Yes. Yes. Um...yes.

And as Dave points out, she wasn't even the first. One could make a convincing argument that Andy Warhol and his gang were all about that.
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post #44 of 99
4/22/10 at 9:33am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wydren View Post
Eh, Kylie Minogue does sexy dance pop way better.
She was just copying Madonna, though, it's not until later she actually started to find her own image.

It's a shame, her being a great entertainer that she's such a lousy actress, you'd think she'd be better or something.
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post #45 of 99
4/22/10 at 9:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NathanW View Post
She was just copying Madonna, though, it's not until later she actually started to find her own image.

It's a shame, her being a great entertainer that she's such a lousy actress, you'd think she'd be better or something.
Eh, I could make the argument that Madonna only really got popular from controversy, and when that started to decline she noticed a certain Aussie singer, but they did influence each other. I will say Kylie didn't need any of that controversy.

Plus I think she's sexier. But that's way subjective.
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post #46 of 99
4/23/10 at 12:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by wydren View Post
Eh, I could make the argument that Madonna only really got popular from controversy, and when that started to decline she noticed a certain Aussie singer, but they did influence each other. I will say Kylie didn't need any of that controversy.

Plus I think she's sexier. But that's way subjective.
Nobody reaches Madonna's level of success through controversy alone. It's a ridiculous accusation.
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post #47 of 99
4/23/10 at 3:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg David View Post
Nobody reaches Madonna's level of success through controversy alone. It's a ridiculous accusation.
So wait, you're denying that controversy made her famous? That's not what you said earlier.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg David View Post
I'll never forget the moment I saw that. I was in Coast Guard A School, and we were all gathered in the lounge. There was a collective sense of "Holy shit, is she really doing that on national television?!".
Seems like you noticed it due to how controversial it was, not because of the actual performance (as opposed to the MJ Motown 25 performance referenced earlier). You even said that initially she kind of stank but learned how to sing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg David View Post
I wasn't fond of her first album (and I'm still not), but she grew quickly, actually taking the trouble to learn how to sing.
So, if it wasn't her singing that brought her to national attention, what exactly was it?

I'm not saying that's all there is to her career. But you've got to admit, if she hadn't had songs about sex, made out with a Black Jesus, or gotten banned by the Vatican, she probably wouldn't have reached the same level of pop culture saturation she has.
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post #48 of 99
4/23/10 at 3:24pm
BTW Greg, I dig your mustachioed cigar-lovin' avatar.
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post #49 of 99
4/23/10 at 3:31pm
Ray of light.

That is all.
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post #50 of 99
4/23/10 at 4:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wydren View Post
I'm not saying that's all there is to her career. But you've got to admit, if she hadn't had songs about sex, made out with a Black Jesus, or gotten banned by the Vatican, she probably wouldn't have reached the same level of pop culture saturation she has.
Of course not, but that's all part of the package. Kylie Minogue wouldn't have made it if it weren't for her looks, either. Neither of these women is making it on musical ability alone. I honestly don't see much similarity between the two aside from the fact that they both put out dance-pop singles, but maybe I'm not familiar enough with their respective catalogs.
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