New Arizona immigration laws

I'm OK with making it illegal to employ illegal workers, but letting police detain people who can't prove their citizenship? That's an awful short walk from "Papers, please"-style shenanigans.

As a citizen of Arizona I approve of these measures.

I hope that Some Random Guy has a darker skin tone and one day forget his papers when the police checks him up..

Is illegal activity there that bad?

Of course when I read this article, this is the first thing that came to mind...



No Ticket

There are naturalized citizens who have been told to keep their papers locked in a secure location due to the difficulty and cost of replacing them. Now they're essentially being told to have them with them at all times in case a cop decides they don't look legal.

I'm sorry, this is a little terrifying.

Notice how there's never any mention of penalizing anyone who hires undocumented workers, as if supply exists without demand.

These laws are really vile, and this "blame the 'legals" mentality is so ass-backwards you just want to shake these people and break them out of this ugly cult they've gotten wrapped up in.

I heard Arizona Congressman Grijalva on the radio yesterday, who is going to call of a boycott of major events (conventions, expos, etc.) in Arizona if these Nazi laws get passed.

I love the phrasing. "...gets tough on immigration..." Posturing Tough Guy Conservatism beats Wimpy Li'l' Liberalism every time!

This is what you get from a state filled with old white people. I hate that place.

From what was linked on the very first post.

More Arizona Fuckery

It will be interesting to see which state wins out for being the most reactionary shithole in the coming years.

"Dey durk ur durbs!"

Wouldn't, I don't know, ACTUALLY BEING FUCKING ELECTED AND SWORN IN prove he meets the requirements?

This prohibition of their labor could also cause more exploitation. I doubt employers will suddenly give up hiring illegals, and now it could be easier to abuse their employees, with threats of turning them in for detention. This mostly depends on the laws written up for hiring illegals, and I'm unfamiliar with them.

Never underestimate the nefarious potential of red tape bureaucracy.

When I went to renew my driver's license, my prior one was not good enough proof of who I was...even though it was my PRIMARY FORM OF LEGAL IDENTIFICATION ISSUED BY THE DMV THEMSELVES!

My wearing a burqua in the picture may have played a role in that, though.

Wasn't it already illegal to hire illegal workers?

Yeah but it worked like a double negative, so it was really OK.

This legislation is extremely dangerous and it's the antithesis of conservatism.

McCain stopped being a conservative years ago. Of course, so did a number of people in the Republican party.

Ah. The conservative equivalent of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell".

A few months ago a farmer was shot by an illegal just for trying to save him from dehydration. This true american hero had saved countless illegals from a similar fate.

Well, that's enough for me. Bring on the fascism!

And I guess now it is rendered illegal for true American heroes to save them from dehydration by means of transporting them. Or is this just a No Country For Old Men scenario of compassion?

Yes, now I can ask for someone's papers before I offer them a water from my fridge, just to be sure they're a real American.

Arizona actually has a system in place already in regards to businesses who receive sizeable fines if they hire somebody (even for a day) and don't run them through some system first which verifies their citizenship. It looks to me like they're more concerned about the day laborers who congregate in multiple areas of the city hoping to find work for a day either from individuals or contractors who are small enough that they just ignore the laws.

I'm not sure how far away from McCain's election stance this is anyhow. His point during the election was that we really make minimal effort to stop people from crossing the border, and we make zero effort to find them once they've crossed illegally, so it makes no sense to act tough on people who have been here for years. His idea was basically to give blanket citizenship to those who were already here, and then move forward with better patrolling of the border and doing a better job of trying to find people who crossed illegally after the citizenship date.

So essentially he got no traction on the citizenship part, but he's able to get some push on trying to do a better job of locating illegals after they've crossed. I'm not saying it's good, I'm saying it's really not that far from where he started.

As far as somebody asking about how bad the situation is in Arizona, I'd guess it's no worse than most of the border states. The main difference is that this state is still conservative even though it wants to appear maverick. The Goldwater legacy is alive and well. Do bad things happen because of illegals? Absolutely, probably at just about the same rate as any citizens. Things like the farmer being shot get a LOT of run here though, and it's easy to rile people up and pretend that our state ills can be blamed on somebody.

America reign in the corporations and banks that are sucking you dry!

Next time you all don't pay through the fucking nose as bad as you COULD be for an orange, watermelon, pickle, cucumber, etc.... you should take a stroll through some of the farms in Florida (and I'd wager they're about the same everywhere else).

They won't ever REALLY come down on the people that employ illegals. And if they ever did, these same conservative assholes are going to be doing a WHOLE lot more whining and moaning about the price of goods than they ever were about illegals. The shittiest part it, they all know this. It's just a game of tough-guy posturing.

This sfm.

Also, this:
Trailer here.

Not exactly true. Most of our major farms are WAY down south near Yuma. The produce companies actually have a way around the system in taking the time and energy to bus employees from across the border to do the work for a day and then bus them back to the border each night. I'm not even sure what the logistics are behind it, but it's legal and as far as I know they don't have to follow US minimum wage requirements.

There are other farms near the metropolitan areas but I'm fairly certain all of those follow the guidelines. See, the fines are pretty nuts and you couple that with Joe Arpaio who is so intent on having his name in the news as "America's Toughest Sheriff" that I can't imagine those farms risking it. He already stages traffic stops and the like in different areas of the city on a regular basis looking for illegals and somehow avoiding lawsuits on racial profiling while still ending up on the news with people complaining about racial profiling. That guy lives for publicity, and if he thought there was a chance of shutting some farm down under the law he'd take it in a heartbeat.

We drew a line here and said "You can't cross it and if you do you're a criminal" is one of the most bullshit rationalizations for the mistreatment of our fellow human beings we've ever had the misfortune of dreaming up.

We are a nation of fucking immigrants! Do people not get this shit? Unless your ancestors were hunting buffalo herds on the Great Plains, dropping peyote in the desert to commune with God or creating a proto-marxist society in the Hudson River Valley you can just shut the fuck up about illegal immigration. But hey, it's much easier to oppress someone out of fear and because certain interests have created boogiemen to ward you away from the real problems facing human society.

In closing, fuck Arizona and fuck the people in this country who support this bullshit.

I seriously hope that cocksucker dies a horrible death. Today if possible. Oh my, how I hate that hypocritical asshole.

Raped and murdered slowly by his own prisoners would be nice. Or by his own family.

Not that it should be a surprise to anyone here but the Tea Parties are all for it!

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/rig...he_arizon.html

From the Arizona Tea Party's page on how to rally for the bill:

We are asking for you to spread the word to see if anyone is available to come down there... to show your support of the bill.



So much for opposition to government intrusion into your lives...

Achtung, Arizona. Jesus wept.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_549931.html

What a load of shit! Yeah, all these Europeans sneaking into Arizona across the desert...ROFLMAO

Seriously, what does this really mean? Do I have to carry my US passport when traveling to this state (And believe me, I'll avoid going to Arizona at all costs if possible)?

Is it constitutional for a cop to see me and decide to question me for my freaking citizenship, I don't understand the practicality of this law. And I'm horribly disappointed in McCain, he really sold everything out during the election, but is doing nothing to redeem himself now.

Like I said, Sherriff Joe was essentially already doing this. All they did was legalize what he was doing (and what he claimed was legal already). It's shocking that our state is in such dire financial straits as we continually do everything possible to alienate people and encourage out of staters to do everything in their power to drive around our state on the way to California.

Come on, it's OK for the government to intrude if you want to have an abortion, if you're gay and want to get married, or if you look sufficiently Hispanic to have your citizenship questioned. How are those not acceptable exceptions?

$1000 to the first cop in Arizona who questions a blonde-haired blue-eyed person they suspect might be here illegally. I suspect it'll be safe.

Truck driver forced to show birth certificate claims racial-profiling

http://www.azfamily.com/video/featur...-91769419.html

Greg Palast's investigation has shown that this is about intimidating and disenfranchising legal voters of latino origins.
The rest is here.

ps. don't bother discrediting Palast. You may not like his style but his investigative reporting is solid. So, before you attack him, prove him wrong.

Well that didn't take long.

In a just and righteous world, one that made some sort of sense to me, those Tea Party buffoons would be out in force protesting against shit like this. Instead, once again, we have everything ass backwards because certain interests have pegged certain issues/demographics/people as detrimental to traditional economic and power structures. And we're supposed to better than the rest of the world how?

We're a nation of fearful hypocrites waiting to be manipulated en masse for the benefit of interests beyond our own. So kudos to Arizona for living up to the real American Dream: Arresting the brown people because you're afraid of losing an illusionary grip over the control of a nation founded on the same terms you're currently railing against.

So what are the odds that some deluded Birther or oathkeeper, who has a daytime job as cop, does attempt to arrest President Obama during his next Arizona gig, for not being able to show his birth certificate and thereby being illegal in Arizona?

Would the secret service be allowed to shoot that guy in the attempt?

Nate Silver of FiveThirtyEight.com offers up his take on this whole sitation:

I'm sure our theoretical Birther would live to tell about it, provided he hits the ground and puts his hands over his head the first time the Secret Service quick-draw and scream at him.

Geez, every time I hear someone say, "Well, if you have all your papers and have done nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about," I want to claw their eyes out.

Wow. Arizona's fucked.

What, they're reputation? Or do you mean "in the head?"

Ya know, I kinda dismiss most folks when they complain about "Godwin" elements in a political thread. Mostly because it's become almost as knee-jerk to bitch about it as it is to label something Nazi-esque.

Now here we have the perfect example of the "how it all gets away from you" principle in history. Nobody believes that shit like this can get past the "I can't believe they're even discussing shit like this!" phase. Why? 'Cause we're Americans, dammit! Seperating niggers into their own units while claiming the moral high ground over arrogant krauts and jap monkeys was just part of the price of liberty, apparently.

Well, all the internet chatter, all the Daily Show commentaries, all the profound blog posts, all the assumptions of reason have proven what? It can still happen. It has happened. And you know what? Folks are still just sitting there going "This can't happen here!" Hey asswipe, it just did!

By the way, this is exactly the thing I tried to caution ElCapitan about in the mAnn Coulter thread. Now, for him, his country has 49 states and one passport-required protectorate.

Same thing happened to me when I went in to change my address.
I've got no problem with immigrants. I just want them to pay taxes like the rest of us. This statement comes on the heels of just owing Uncle Sam $1100 a week or so back.