Utah is now executing people by firing squad

The guy requested it, didn't he?

If that's the way the guy wants to go...

Look, I'm opposed to the death penalty, too, but if you're going to be outraged and start threads based on this morning's HuffPo's headlines, at least get your facts right. Like the fact that Utah has had the option of execution by firing squad for over thirty years. Or the fact that the last case of this was in 1996. And the fact that the man being executed in this case, Gardner, chose to die by firing squad, meaning he could have chosen any of the other "cleaner" methods available in Utah. And, oh yeah, the fact that Utah banned execution by firing squad in 2004, but since that law wasn't retroactive, four inmates, of which Gardner was one, could have chosen this method of execution.

And if you're going to bash Utah, you have to go after Oklahoma, too, where execution by firing squad is also a choice for the condemmed.

I found this all out in about five minutes on the internet.

Wow, that's pretty embarrassing, Princess Kate. If I were you I'd stop posting for a couple years. Out of shame.

If only it were that easy! PK is immune to shame.

Do any of those two states offer the "being chased off a cliff by a horde of topless women" death penalty option?

Princess Wiki, always slightly wrong.

That being said, bullets are cheaper than electricity. And if it's a choice...

Oh my god, you didn't read anything I posted, did you? In the title of your post, you said Utah "is now", which means that they just started, and you imply in your post that they "have turned the justice system into the Wild West." Both of which are misleading statements if you know the facts, especially since it is no longer legal to execute people in Utah by firing squad.

They banned it in 2004, but it wasn't retroactive, so Gardner had the choice to die by firing squad, under his legal rights, which he chose to do. It's terrible, but it's slightly better than some other states which still have older methods of execution. In some of the states that still have hanging as a valid method of execution, it's at the discretion of the correction officers, for example.

That doesn't even bring up that, from what I can tell, Gardner hasn't said why he elected to be executed in this fashion. He could be doing it to make a statement -- the prisoner they executed in 1996 by firing squad did so to show that "the state sanctions murder."

Do you know what "the law was not retroactive" means? The state goverment's response is not "okey doke," it's what it has to be according to the law.

And, by the way, where were you in March, when Virginia executed a man in the electric chair, which can fail just as often and is just as cruel and unusual as firing squad? Did the Huffington Post not cover that?

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

Maybe PK is a member of the Gilmore family.

Funny... I don't hear you talking about the barbarism and disgrace of this man who killed another while escaping a courthouse.

Same goes for the Ohio man executed last week (the one whining about the injection allergy) for being not only a serial rapist, but then raping and killing a 16 year old girl.

In my opinion, these people deserved to die and it's the duty of the State to make sure that happens. I'm probably one of the only members of this forum that is pro-death penalty. Hell, I'm against Roper v. Simmons's decision. I think we should still execute minors.

Nothing like a murdered cousin to make you feel that way, I guess.

Says who?

Says you?

Do you have any idea on how a firing squad works?

It's the duty of the state to murder its own citizens?

Enh, a firing squad isn't necessarily a worse way to die than lethal injection, or hanging, either. It's pretty subjective. And getting shot to death at least has a theatrical quality about it, I guess.

EDIT: Not that I'm pro-death penalty. I'm not.

There's a total difference between murder and execution. To argue otherwise is arguing a semantic difference that's just not there.

It was his choice to die that way, like it or not that's what he wanted. Hell, why not let him! like it was said, a bullet is cheaper than the chair.

Are there any states that allow the choice to be eaten alive by great whites? cause that would be awesome.

Come on, man, no love for a Roman Circus Maximus comeback?
Although, just humans killing other humans...no animals, cause that would be cruel.

You're right, but you must admit that the way we execute people in this country -- if it has to happen at all, which I don't support -- needs to be drastically overhauled. Or are you okay with innocent people being on death row, just so long as the scum of the earth get their time with the needle?

Furthermore, I maintain it's kind of sickening that we're one of the only countries in the Western World that still executes its own citizens.

My own objection to the death penalty has nothing to do with concern for the guilty. The establishment of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt still manages to put innocent men on death row. There's no way to unshoot, unzap, uninject, or unfeed to the sharks an innocent man convicted wrongfully. Every death row inmate exonerated by DNA analysis after their conviction is a nail in the death penalty's coffin.

Even when the guilt of the accused is established down to the molecular level, the libertarian side of me recoils at the idea of investing judges with that much power. If the judge has a lifetime appointment, he'll never be held accountable. If the judge's jurisdiction is in a state that has term limits, there's pressure on the judge to pander to sentiment or mob anger.

I don't have a problem in putting a halt to the death penalty structure so long as we dedicate to fixing the major issues with the criminal justice system that threaten its legitimacy.

That being said, the problem isn't with the death penalty itself, rather the way we go about convicting individuals.

I don't have a problem with the death penalty. I think it's our duty as a society to punish the worst of the worst with the most devastating punishment possible.

This looks like a fun parsing. But not worth changing the ignore list for.

Princess Kate, Utah, and Oklahoma are the only states that allow...execution by firing squad. As the FS is working for the state, they are not guilty of...Murder, anymore than the person sticking the needle in a person for...Lethal Injection. If it makes you feel any better, just think of this...The guy on death row in Utah, died of...Lead Poisoning!

This is the most entertaining MENSA meeting I've ever seen around these parts.

In context, that's a really disturbing image.

Whoa, son. That treehouse looks awful big for just one person. I'm very much interested in learning the secret knock. Don't feel too alone.

Pompoussory Estoppel, I am with you on the...Death Penalty. There are definitely criminals, that deserve death!

I don't want to derail much but I just cannot understand this reasoning. It was the same reasoning thrown about quite a bit in the health care debate. America is better than the rest of the world because we do things differently. When those differences don't align with the rest of the world there is a reason for it and America is often better for that underlying reason.

As to the portion of your post I removed, I just now had a thought. If we can release all the non-violent drug offenders I would be all for curbing death penalty use. Until then, the hotel is overbooked and we need some rooms.

Glad at least someone recognized this.

Yes, executing the mentally retarded and the wrongfully convicted makes us so much better than the rest of the world.

Smiley aside, this is a sickening statement.

Assuming this is not a joke post, in what measurable way does the death penalty make the USA better than everyone else?

I wouldn't have a problem with some of the death penalty proponents if it wasn't for that fact that so many of them are anti-abortion. So it's a bad thing to kill a fetus, but it's OK to kill an actual human being.

Life is life, folks.

Prison rape?

This is how I've always wanted to go out. Being killed with fire.

Yea, he's going out old school. The guy wants the press, and the man-points, for taking a bullet to the face rather than the needle.

I don't think it's anywhere near a "medieval" level of barbarism. Well, that is assuming the shooters aren't bad shots.

Has anyone stopped to think how much more humane death by firing squad is compared to the most common method in the U.S., electrocution?

Death in the electric chair involves every neuron in the victim's body firing off with pain at hundreds of times their normal capacity of amplitude, and this can go on for dozens of seconds to several minutes. Sometimes it even has to be done repeatedly. Hair frequently catches on fire, blood an other fluids stream and steam out of every orifice, and muscles contract so violently bones are sometimes broken. Ah, but at least the condemned person is given something to bite down on so they don't break their teeth.

Death by firing squad, on the other hand, takes microseconds to a few seconds, usually too fast for any actual pain to be felt. Blood pours from the bullet wounds and perhaps the mouth but eyes don't explode and cerebrospinal fluid doesn't leak out of the ears past ruptured eardrums. Admittedly sometimes the victim shits and pisses his or her self. And they don't give them a bit to chomp down on, so I'm sure teeth have been broken during a couple of executions.

For the record I am against the death penalty as it currently exists in America, but I am all for killing people who absolutely deserve it.



Wow, they named a state after Princess Kate?!? I suppose an executioner there eats, shoots, and leaves.

From that perspective, the liberal inverse is just as at odds with itself. But there's a lot more to it, of course.

I tend to be lefty across the boards, but capital punishment is one issue I can really see both sides on. I think the left makes a mistake when they talk about executing innocent people on accident though. It's too prevaricating. This should be a line in the sand kind of deal: We Don't Kill. I think they'd win more adherents.

Lethal injection is currently the most common form of execution in the United States, and that's no picnic, either.

This. This is what I believe. There's more to it, of course, but in the end, this is what I think the United States, as the light of the world, pinnacle of democracy, does not go quietly into the night, if I can change you can change then everyone can change, advanced citizenship do you believe in miracles, type of place needs to be. I know it's not, but I can hope.

One of the best arguments against the death penalty I've ever heard was in Dennis Shepard's statement to the court.

Post 10,002. Whoo.

Here, I'll sum it up for you.

PK read some article from HuffPo, got her granny panties in a huge fucking knot about it, even though it was something that she hardly understood. Then Rath pointed out that she had no idea what the fuck she was talking about, rather politely I might add, and then somehow PK dug her face even deeper into the sand.

Then a bunch of people threw out well reasoned opinions on what they thought about the death penalty, except for Tzu, because, you know, it's fucking Tzu, then more well thought out opinions, some details of electrocution and something about shark tanks and hordes of topless women, and scene.

One other thing that I think is particularly depressing about this whole thing is how a certain member of the board kind of makes me hate my own liberal politics. Most of the time, I think that other liberal leaning people are like me; that is to say, someone who has come to their conclusion on their beliefs by thinking things out and trying to make sense of the world without any input from religion or an overriding belief in systems like democracy or socialism or whatever else you can think of.

And then PK starts talking and I realize that there are certain liberals out there who have put NO thought or curiosity into their beliefs, it's just something they kind of stuck to at the appropriate age, kind of like the thirty year old lady with a hundred tamagotchis in her bedroom closet.

It's weird that I feel more likely to agree with a guy like Pompoussory Estoppel than with Kate because, even though we believe different things, I know that Pompoussory has actually thought his shit out, and if I had to go with one of the other, I'll always go with the more intelligent and rational thinker.

In some ways, I can kind of see what the Tea Party is pissed about, because for whatever reason, they see liberalism as made up of sheep who know nothing about what their talking about. And in a sense, I can understand that. If the entire left wing of this country was made up of people like PK, I would be out there protesting too. I guess that it just goes to show that generalizations are bad, and that our side has our fair share of idiots too.

Kate hates Mormons, remember? This is why she posted this.

I agree completely. As someone who is both pro-choice and pro-death penalty, I've always kinda wondered about this position.

My bad on the assumption of death penalty supporters on this board guys, it's just I've had one-sided discussions about it in the past and all I remember is getting ripped on for being so supportive of capital punishment.

I'm pro-death penalty, but I oppose using it because there have been too many that were wrongfully convicted and executed. Guys like Ted Bundy or BTK though? Let 'em fry.

Frankly though, I think life in a hellhole prison would be much worse. I guess you could say I'm torn on the subject.

Do you mean beforehand? Pretty much everyone does this when they expire. (Fun sidebar: some death row inmates order insanely volatile entrees as their last meal as a final 'fuck you' to the guards overseeing their execution.)

I'm pro-death penalty (and pro-choice) as well, and as you pointed out, there are folks that need killin', and need it the second the judge gets the "guilty" verdict. Take them out back, put a bullet in the back of their head.

Derail - then send their bodies to Tibet for a sky burial (GRAPHIC PICTURES), to feed the fast-declining Indian Vultures. I just recently discovered this and think it's pretty amazing. Talk about giving back. Way better than burying a 400-lb box in the ground in a huge landfill.

Man let's get Carl Lee Hailey up in here and see what he thinks. Maybe he'll join Willie and Toby Keith on a rendition of "Beer for my Horses."

Also, I don't want to give the wrong impression that I don't think the people who've been mentioned in this thread so far -- Gardner, Bundy, BTK -- and those who haven't, like Richard Ramierez, Leonard Lake and Tim McVeigh -- were anything other than horrible, heinous human beings and, in some cases, as close to a personification of evil as you're going to get. I think that. I also think that one of the ways you show you're a civilized nation is by realizing that an eye for an eye is not the way to go.

The problem is not that people are being killed by a firing squad; it's that people are being executed in a civilised society.