Dr Who Catch all - Page 2

So what's everyone's opinion of Susan Foreman? Is she a Time Lord? Or simply meant to be the Doctor's granddaughter before his backstory was fully fleshed out? She could still conceivably be alive in the current timeline.

In The Five Doctors she is confirmed to be a Time Lord who recognizes she's on Gallifrey when she sees the Dark Tower

Again, that seems to be contradicted pretty thoroughly by the end of Season 3. I'm willing to give them some leeway for things, but that was just a huge blinking sign reading "WE DON'T CARE ABOUT THE UNDERLYING LOGIC OF THIS SHOW".

The concept of time travel is always pretty shaky from a narrative perspective in any show that features it, and Doctor Who is always been a bit loosey-goosey with it. This is one of those things you just have to make your peace with. When it's done properly the machinations of Time Travel can be quite clever; Moffat is pretty good with it, but when it's done shitfully it just stinks up the joint with lameness. It's down to the writer, really. Holding the entire show hostage to a continuity it just isn't going to be able to adhere to seems redundant. As long as it's not something too full of shit we are being asked to swallow, I'm fine with it.
Again your complaint is kinda valid, but you either go with it or you don't.

Rose and Martha convinced me that a love angle to the Doctor/Companion relationship is at best pointless, but likely to lead to a bunch of nonsense. Don't have much use for Rose at all by the end, although conversely I'm very fond of Jackie. Martha really has a dead end character arc. But, Donna is free of all of that nonsense and I think the series really benefits from it.

There does seem to be a "loosey goosey" logic to The Doctor's interventions. If there is an alien invasion or interference, especially on Earth, The Doctor has no qualms about leaping in and fighting them. If it's a standard Earth historical event like Pompei then he cannot or tries not to interfere (Water of Mars is an interesting exception and exploration of the idea).

Over in the Dr. Who season 5 thread, Dickson joked about this:

Which made me think about this Comic Relief special from the 90s. Didn't know if anyone here had seen this, but thought I would share just in case.

As funny as that is, I'd totally watch Jim Broadbent as Dr. Who.

That's the first time Moffat ever wrote for Doctor Who.

Love Broadbent as the Doctor, I always kind of hoped we'd get a Richard E Grant Doctor fulltime. I guess that ship has sailed now.

Hell, even Joanna Lumley would be interesting.

Yeah, that special is great, although Atkinson is my favorite Doctor in it. Honestly, I wouldn't mind seeing Jonathan Pryce as the actual, non-parodic Master; he's definitely capable of real menace, and combining that with the glorious ham here would be great.

Interestingly enough, Richard E. Grant did play the non-canonical Ninth Doctor in the 2003 animated webcast "The Scream of the Shalka", which also had Derek Jacobi as a robotic Master (it makes sense in context), Sophie Okonedo as the female lead, David Tennant in a bit part, and was written by Paul Cornell. All of whom would return in some fashion for the revival. I've seen it, it's quite fun, although the animation is unsurprisingly "meh".

it was sort of meant to finish of the whole Dr. Who saga as I recall - the US pilot had failed and it was now consigned to the shit-can of history (FUCK YOU GRADE).

Nice touches in it include:

leaving the sound on while spying (the time monster)
Young Julia Sawallah (press gang) as the companion.
We will explain later....
Sonic vibrator.

Still Broadbent! Grant is kind of the lost doctor, I was always hoping he would pick up again at some stage...

Although has anyone seen this with Lenny Henry flashing forward to the distant future of EARTH 2010....

or bizarrely when the doctors also visits the year 2010....... featuring the Rani!

As for the fundamental flaw in the show - we know. we don't care, it's not a pure science lesson in time-travel theory like quantum leap or back to the future or star trek 4. When the doctor explains things as "Wibbly-Wobbly Timey-Wimey things" i think it became clear exactly what their position is. Never let "reality" get in the way of a good story.

Jo Grant bugged me as she seemed to set back the women's movement by decades "don't ask me doctor, I'm only a girl" but, if people want some titstand for exposition - she's the benchmark.

Time to bang on about Colin Baker again.

I remember the regeneration scene and the shock as Baker woke up a douche after Davison's incredibly nice doctor, people HATED it (I used to do an impression of it at school "Change... and not a moment too soooooooon" followed by some nostril flaring).

I always thought I hated his doctor - but then watching all of them back I was struck by how much more interesting he had become - yes, he was self-absorbed, rude and saddled with scripts that were designed to have the series cancelled asap. but it was a fresh take illustrating how personalities change with regeneration, simultaneously showing how time-lords get a bit more mad with each regeneration - something that tied in with the trial of a timelord. An insulting doctor who refuses to admit he's wrong (EVER) and is endlessly annoyed by the stupidity of others. It gave a weird abused-wife vibe to his relationship with Peri. It's a bold take but a bit different and he should be remembered for that rather than the stinkers he was given to act.

Overdue for revisiting I say!

This post inspired me to search around and look at the first episode of Web of Fear. It's a real shame that it no longer exists in whole as it gets off to a very fine start.

I'm really pissed off with Netflix right now. I had Planet of The Daleks & The Sea Devils at the top my queue but as soon as they should ship it now says short wait! What is the deal with these discs? First they have a release date & when that comes they drop back to the saved section. Now this.

I was really looking forward to revisiting some of my fave DW episodes from when I was a kid. Disappointed.

My problem with both Colin Baker and Sylvester McCoy is that neither actor "got" the character. So they flailed about, yelled and did "wacky" things.

When Tom Baker pulled a Sonic Screwdriver and a half eaten apple from his pocket, he made it seem like the most natural thing in the world for that character to do. Peter Davidson might be an ogre in real life but projected a "kinder gentler" Doctor.

I don't know if Colin Baker and McCoy were rushed into the series without proper coaching or prep time or what. I do know both had some truly awful writing (it's like the whole production staff forgot what made Who work and devolved into Fan Wank and going through motions)

All that said, "Attack of the Cybermen" is a real kick ass serial and the best for Colin Baker IMO (oh and the Doctor does admit it a rather major error in judgment at the end of that episode)

The gist is that Dr who aint science fiction, but it's fun and people are taking it waaaaay to seriously. He also alludes to Dr who being christ-like in his omniscience although it's tongue-in-cheek. And that star cops was great.

Interesting that Mr. baby doesn't think 6 & 7 "got the character", did hartnell? did troughton? no, because there was nothing to "get" - only what has become the cultural ideal of the previous doctors gestalt and rather than re-hash other more popular doctors (I'm looking at you, Tennant) they did what the other classic actors did with the doctor and put their own spin on it. People didn't like it - possibly because:

• It didn't mesh with the public's personal idea of what a Doctor should be.
• The changes were significant and jarring.
• The cultural zeitgeist had changed significantly: late 80s v 70s & early 80s = big change in the TV landscape.
• As characters and actors they had less charisma than previous incarnations / interpretations.
• Shitty Scripts (we covered)
• Neither had the time to really grow into the role.
• The audience demographic had shifted (kids hooked by 3 & 4 now had more sophisticated tastes).
• Inability to engage with a new younger demographic.
• They were less conventionally attractive - 3 & 4 were beset with groupies (read TBaker's autobiography).
• Costumes: Garish and tasteless (purposefully we are led to believe)
• Shittest Companions.
• They weren't Tom Baker (whose greatness and longevity capped by davison's handsome nice-ness made them), a tough act to follow.
• Sylvester McCoy was Scottish - thus alienating millions of viewers.

I realize that there's a point at which you have to say "it's just a show", but Doctor Who crosses that line backwards and makes a dash for Tijuana before being brought down in a hail of bullets by the Narrative Police. Pratchett pretty much nails it--it's a little hard to get invested in the story when you know the writers are going to pull something nonsensical out of their ass at the 3/4s mark to make everything magically work out.

NuWho clearly wants to be Buffy the Vampire Slayer, but that show, which was a pure fantasy and could make up the rules of its own reality, was still way more narratively coherent and consistent than Who.

The Jesus + Tinkerbell thing is bang on, too.

I generally enjoyed the fourth season, though. Too maudlin at the end, but otherwise solid.

Yeah, there's no doubt that Doctor Who frequently (although not always) resorts to magical Doctor syndrome to get out of whatever box the writers have put themselves in and that keeps it from, overall, being a good example of well constructed hard science fiction. Then again, I don't know if anyone but the most misguided die hards would make that argument. In some ways, I think Pratchett is attacking a straw man there.

It's not just science fiction, it's good storytelling, period. There's no tension if you know they're just going to make something up at the climax without setting it up in advance.

Honestly, aside from Davies' occasional tendency to indulge in it, I can't think of a lot of Deus Ex Machina solutions in Dr. Who. Moffat's stories don't have them at all, and the Classic stuff I've watched tend to not have them either.

I don't think Doctor Who ever made any pretenses towards being hard science fiction.

It actually happens no more frequently than in any science ficition show, actually. Like I said before, it really does depend on the intelligence and creativity of who ever is writing the script; it's not like there is a general mandate of just hitting the Deus Ex Machina button anytime shit gets too complicated.
The modern run of Who is vastly superior to Buffy; a show I find quite tedious to be honest. A lot of people say Davies ripped off the season long narrative arc structure of Buffy for the new Who but Doctor Who was doing that stuff back in the 70's.

That Pratchett spiel is pretty lol. I don't know if he is the right guy to bag something out for being too childish, actually. And the "It's not real science fiction" line is just lame.

most sci-fi on TV seems to need a hook beyond the sci-fi,

Sci-Fi Drama, Sci-Fi Comedy, Sci-Fi western, Sci-fi Cyberpunk etc.

The thing is Dr. Who doesn't really fit into any subgenre, it's sci-fi by default because there's no other label that applies. I think this is why there's so much dialogue and discussion - everyone has a different view and agenda of what it is based on it means to them, also why so many people "don't get it" - they don't know what it is.

Bring back Peri's boobs!

That is all.

I find the "IS IT SCI FI" debate really tedious actually as genre studies isn't something that really interest me that much, but if Doctor Who isn't Science Fiction, like Prachett believes, what the fuck is it? The central conceit of the show is an alien dude traveling the universe in a space/time machine. I mean, come on.

Certainly it's fair to criticize the Deus Ex Machina reset button Davies pulled out a few times. And the technobabble gobbledygook of "reversing the polarity of the neutron flow" that sometimes occur. But, for every one of those, there's an episode with a strong logic core and well conceived solution. It's certainly fair to say that Doctor Who hasn't been a model of consistency over the years, but judging the show by its worst is no better than by claiming it's great episodes are what's typical.

The show's flirted with serious sci-fi from time to time.
The original concept of the Cybermen, the realistic space timescales of The Space Pirates, that kind of thing.
Mostly happened in the 60s when they hadn't quite got out from under the educational mandate, though.

Fine. Let's get a Top 10 Shaggable Companion List going then.

#1 Leela.

Agreed. All science fiction shows that run long enough pull this stuff. All of them.

#2. Amy Pond.

I have a thing for redheads and scottish accents. I MAKE NO APOLOGIES.

I'd rather fuck K-9.

I have a thing against redheads and scottish accents. I MAKE NO APOLOGIES.

#3. Peri

Give her a hat and tell her to shut up. This is workable, man!

From behind because her vacant staring would really put me off. This could work. Borrow some of Leela's old leather bikinis.

BTW - Richard - excellent choice of this month's avatar.

Peri, the accent bugged me but a nice 80s choice.

You suck!

Could've been worse. Could have been Australian.

Well, a lot of those points don't apply to me: I don't care if McCoy is Scottish for example. Sadly, my tastes haven't changed much as far as Dr Who goes , for another example.

But I think you nail it when you say the later actors simply grab bits and bobs from the previous actors rather than make the character their own. I'd argue that Hartnell through Davidson did make The Doctor their own.

An interesting little take on the doctors at bleeding cool, they try to link back traits in each doctor to Hartnell's original interpretation.

Also a good cliff-notes for people unfamiliar with the old doctors.

also re the aforementioned "reversing the polarity of the neutron flow" apparently Pertwee just liked saying it.

So, I was using my Netflix streaming and decided to rewatch THE TALONS OF WENG-CHIANG after what must have been 25 years since I last saw it. Some general thoughts.

The story is still a fun pastiche of Sherlock Holmes and Phantom of the Opera, combined with some whimsical sci-fi. Baker's fun and the fact that they actually have time leads to some really fine bits that we don't get in modern Who. For instance, opening a door without using a sonic screwdriver. Leela is a fun companion, especially in that her first instinct is to stick a knife in a threat. The work with the supporting characters Jago and Litefoot is excellent, and adds to the overall story.

On the downside, time hasn't been kind to the show. The videotaped segments frequently look horribly degraded. And, if you have an objection to yellowface, you'll have an objection to this story. The special effects look cheaper than ever.

Still a pretty good story, but it's certainly showing its age.

Via iO9, what if Disney did Doctor Who?

Continuing my classic Who rewatching, I checked out TOMB OF THE CYBERMEN. While you can see the budget limitations, and actor limitations of the guest stars, there's a lot here to like. The high contrast black and white has held up well over the years. And the claustrophobic limited sets works to the advantage of this story. It's basically a cursed Egyptian tomb story, with creepy Cybermen, and works very well in that respect.

Troughton, Hines, and Watling also all have excellent chemistry. The plot is a little bit suspect, the Doctor seems to help the archeologists break into the tomb as much as he warns against doing so.

Not perfect by a long shot, but it's no wonder why it was remembered fondly during the years it was lost.

I much prefer the "Reboot Alternate Earth" Cybermen to the "Classic" Cybermen. The Nu-Cybermen are humans who have been put in a really bad place instead of just being Alien Slubs who suffer from Narcolepsy. That (to me) makes them more of a threat.

But on the other side the "Classic" Daleks were awesome. It was implied throughout the Classic series that they were in fact destined to win and wipe out all other life in the universe, a really bold concept. The new "Al Queda-'oh you thought you wiped us out 4ever but no! we're back' Nu-Daleks" really don't work at all IMO.

There's a little bit of that in Tomb of the Cybermen, but I agree that's the best part of the Nu-Cybermen. But they just come off too much as tin soldiers to me most of the time.

Although it's probably not going to happen anytime soon, I'd like a season with no Cybermen or Daleks.

The Eleventh Hour was the first Doctor Who episode I saw in full. After getting hooked, I went back to Series 1.

Having just finished it, I'm going to miss Eccleston. His balance of tortured soul and genuine kindness was really well done, and I sort of despise Rose for not simply giving up the power when he told her to and forcing him to regenerate. Oh well.

Spent half of The Christmas Invasion waiting for something to happen, then the last half really enjoying Tennant. The final moments between him and Harriet Jones sort of made my jaw drop.

Despite what I said earlier, I'm finely warming to Rose. She doesn't have shit on Amy, though.

The thing about The Christmas Invasion is that Tennant very rarely plays his Doctor like that afterwards. I still think Season 2, aside from a few bright spots, is a slog but Tennant is a lot of fun in the role.